The Middle East Conflict Thread

krycor said:
Antisemitism is stupid thing to bring up. Its a tired argument along with the holocaust as its the typical Zionist response when cornered for an answer.

I think the most memorable answer i saw in this thread is from marine where he justified the gaza conflict with the mumbai bombings. Its about as memorable as the one about muslim people headbanging in prayer as form of indoctrination :p
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And making a blanket statement that Israel was founded by Zionists alone is an antisemitic generalization! It betrays an underlying racist belief that Jews should not have a place of their own anywhere. This is at the heart of what you antisemites are arguing for. You just don't want Israel to have a country.

Interesting that the mods saw fit to delete that post by aqua_lung! :rolleyes:
 
timgaul said:
Israel withdrew their troops and dismantled their settlements in the Gaza strip! How is this not good will. You fail to see that even though the process was slow, it was happening. Hamas played on the slow rate of change and created a government that no longer backed the plan.
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This suited Israel! Not good will!

timgaul said:
And for the umpteenth time: Palestine attacked Israel, they lost. Egypt and Jordan attacked Israel, they lost. See a pattern forming here?
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You can harp on about this, but I don't see how this is relevant to maps/links I posted.

timgaul said:
Well Hamas has caused their people more ill than good, so was it worth it? Things have gone backwards as a result.
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Things have always been backward for the Palestinian people, regardless of Hamas, its Israel that is the common denominator!

timgaul said:
What exactly are you trying to say? :confused:
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I was referring to Marine's post!
 
Aqua_lung said:
That's why Israel has marriage laws to curb the growth, SA had marriage laws and were hated internationally for this yet Israel is free from criticism.
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I'm tired of your propaganda, honestly. You twist the truth for your own benefit.

Israeli Arabs can still marry Arabs from anywhere in the world (except Palestine) and still have children and gain citizenship. There may be problems with inter-religious marriages, but that is anywhere in the world, not just Israel.

Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza may not become citizens if married to Israelis (regardless of whether they be Jewish or not). This is an attempt to keep the two countries separate (due to increased terrorist activities and the like) and ensure Palestinians stay in the Palestinian Authority territories.

For someone hell bent on freedom for the Palestinians you're quite happy to rather have them become Israelis and destroy Palestine all together. Maybe they should just move to Jordan or Syria then? Same net result.
 
Garyvdh said:
And making a blanket statement that Israel was founded by Zionists alone is an antisemitic generalization! It betrays an underlying racist belief that Jews should not have a place of their own anywhere. This is at the heart of what you antisemites are arguing for. You just don't want Israel to have a country.

Interesting that the mods saw fit to delete that post by aqua_lung! :rolleyes:
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Interesting view/statement/comment:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_antisemitism

Finkelstein asks why, given that the wars in Vietnam and Iraq contributed to anti-Americanism, and the aggression of Nazi Germany gave rise to anti-Teutonic sentiment, it surprises us that an occupation by a self-declared Jewish state should cause antipathy towards Jews. The only surprise, he argues, is that the antipathy does not run deeper, given that mainstream Jewish organizations offer uncritical support to Israel; that Israel defines itself juridically as the sovereign state of the Jewish people; and that Jews themselves sometimes argue that to distinguish between Israel and world Jewry is itself an example of antisemitism. He cites Phyllis Chesler who argues, on the one hand, that "anyone who does not distinguish between Jews and the Jewish state is an anti-Semite," but on the other that "Israel is our heart and soul ... we are family." Gabriel Schoenfeld, the editor of Commentary magazine, writes that "Iranian anti-Semitic propagandists make a point of erasing all distinctions among Israel, Zionism and the Jews," while Hillel Halkin argues that "Israel is the state of the Jews ... To defame Israel is to defame the Jews." It would seem to be antisemitic, Finkelstein concludes, "both to identify and not to identify Israel with Jews."[36]
 
timgaul said:
For someone hell bent on freedom for the Palestinians you're quite happy to rather have them become Israelis and destroy Palestine all together. Maybe they should just move to Jordan or Syria then? Same net result.
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OMG how thick are you? Yes! I would rather have them become Israelis, a unified state would mean they would become Israelis.

But Israel is a Jewish state and that means they would become second class citizens not able to buy land which is why I would want it to become a non-religious secular state.
 
AvOk said:
This suited Israel! Not good will!
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Please explain how this suits Israel? I can't just accept bold statements without any reasoning.

AvOk said:
You can harp on about this, but I don't see how this is relevant to maps/links I posted.
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Funny thing how this war thingie works. You fight, you lose land, you lose the war and maybe you don't get it back. Just ask Germany, Austria, Hungary, France, Poland, Prussia, Turkey and so on. Geddit?

The solution you would think would be not to attack Israel, yet they persist. Some people just can't be taught.

AvOk said:
Things have always been backward for the Palestinian people, regardless of Hamas, its Israel that is the common denominator!
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Yet again you just give these statements without backing them up. You sound like a Hamas children's TV character. This is a debate, you need facts or you fail.

AvOk said:
I was referring to Marine's post!
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Yes, I know, ergo the quotes. You're still not making any sense. Why would one not be proud to be a Zionist?
 
Aqua_lung said:
OMG how thick are you? Yes! I would rather have them become Israelis, a unified state would mean they would become Israelis.

But Israel is a Jewish state and that means they would become second class citizens not able to buy land which is why I would want it to become a non-religious secular state.
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Except the 1.6 million Israeli-Palestinians can buy land now. You sure you don't work for the Hamas Propaganda bureau, your facts are rather fuzzy and twisted?

EDIT:

Here's one for you:

The statement that "Arabs cannot buy land in Israel" is largely true,
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...

but meaningless since Jews cannot buy land either
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:D
 
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rwenzori said:
LOL! You are a master at that yourself!! :D

Ja well no fine! Seeing as you deny facts presented to you, maybe your little instruction is pointless LOL!
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I could also make bold statements, but without proof they would be pointless.

You don't seem to accept the facts presented to you either, so your argument is pointless.

You seem to believe you know better than 80% of this planet, so anything you state is probably pointless.

See what I did there? I contributed absolutely nothing. Now that we're done wasting space can we continue with an actual debate that doesn't contain lines and lines pointless statements? :p
 
timgaul said:
Except the 1.6 million Israeli-Palestinians can buy land now. You sure you don't work for the Hamas Propaganda bureau, your facts are rather fuzzy and twisted?

EDIT:

Here's one for you:



...



:D
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So in your own sentence you say they can buy land and then you quote the opposite proving that they can't.. who is twisting facts now? :rolleyes:

Jews may not buy land directly from the state of Israel but the Jewish National Fund will only give land to Jews.
 
timgaul said:
Please explain how this suits Israel? I can't just accept bold statements without any reasoning.



Funny thing how this war thingie works. You fight, you lose land, you lose the war and maybe you don't get it back. Just ask Germany, Austria, Hungary, France, Poland, Prussia, Turkey and so on. Geddit?

The solution you would think would be not to attack Israel, yet they persist. Some people just can't be taught.



Yet again you just give these statements without backing them up. You sound like a Hamas children's TV character. This is a debate, you need facts or you fail.



Yes, I know, ergo the quotes. You're still not making any sense. Why would one not be proud to be a Zionist?
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aahhh so this is how Israel "acquired" its land!

your definition of acquired is not quiet accurate then?

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=2423339#post2423339

Is war not forceful?

As for the above, you seem to do the exact same!

Google is your friend!

Debates can consist of opinions as well, so until you become moderator, or become fact master yourself, I will do as I please!

Did you read the Zionism link, [opinion]:D I would not be proud to be a Zionist!
 
Aqua_lung said:
So in your own sentence you say they can buy land and then you quote the opposite proving that they can't.. who is twisting facts now? :rolleyes:

Jews may not buy land directly from the state of Israel but the Jewish National Fund will only give land to Jews.
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But wait, there's more:

In actual practice, ILA lands are leased and both Arab and Jewish citizens of Israel have equal access. Some classes of Arab citizens, e.g. Bedouins, have been the beneficiaries of highly subsidized land programs in Israel, so beneficial that Jews have gone to court to try to get the same terms. Affirmative action programs for Bedouins have been upheld by Jewish courts to the detriment of Jewish citizens.
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Arabs favoured over Jews in Israel?

And then:

JNF land, even when managed by the Israeli government, is restricted by the formal charter of the JNF.

In practice, however, JNF land has been leased to Arab citizens of Israel, both for short-term and long-term use such as leases on a yearly basis to Bedouins for use as pasture. In other cases, JNF land has been traded for other, unrestricted, land so it can be leased to Arabs.
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So you're right, Arabs can't buy land from the JNF. But then no one can, its leased land to ALL citizens.

Then a few facts on private land ownership:

There are no restrictions on private land transfers in Israel. Private land can be purchased or leasaed by Israeli Arabs or by non-citizens. Such land can be, and has been, purchased by Israeli Arabs and by foreigners, including Arab foreigners.
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Would you like to know more?
 
timgaul said:
But wait, there's more:



Arabs favoured over Jews in Israel?

And then:



So you're right, Arabs can't buy land from the JNF. But then no one can, its leased land to ALL citizens.

Then a few facts on private land ownership:



Would you like to know more?
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links or its all sucked out your thumb!
 
AvOk said:
aahhh so this is how Israel "acquired" its land!

your definition of acquired is not quiet accurate then?

http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php?p=2423339#post2423339
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Hey! Read before you reply. That was in reference to Resolution 181 (not the Arab-Israeli war or the 6 day war), I clearly stated that Israel doesn't believe the West Bank and Gaza to be part of their country!

AvOk said:
Is war not forceful?

As for the above, you seem to do the exact same!

Google is your friend!
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If you're that lazy then I couldn't be bothered to read your drivel.

AvOk said:
Debates can consist of opinions as well, so until you become moderator, or become fact master yourself, I will do as I please!
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Yes they do, which can be ignored because they actually have no bearing on the argument. Glad you pointed that out. /ignore :rolleyes:

AvOk said:
Did you read the Zionism link, [opinion]:D I would not be proud to be a Zionist!
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I don't see where you problem lies. So what if Israel had been formed in Argentina? It would still be a Jewish homeland and Zionists would still be Zionists. Oh wait, I forget its you opinion. /ignore
 
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