The PC Build Thread

[j4ck455]

I'm assuming it's best to mix and match in pairs if anything?

My understanding is that both DIMMs in a dual channel pair must be exactly the same make and model (I don't think they are even sold separately, always sold as a pair).

I suggest that before buying, make sure that the DIMMs you intend to buy are on the QVL for your motherboard.

 

[Neoprod]

so I've been having a weird issue for the past year or so that I've struggled to deal with. It started with Cyberpunk and my PC having continual freezes/crashes. At first I thought this was down to the shitty state Cyberpunk released in, and some of it definitely was, but then I started noticing these crashes in other games that were moderately graphically intense (no issue on games like Fall Guys or Hades). I went through endless NVIDIA driver updates and changes, and while I noticed different issues with different drivers, the core issue of game freezes and occasional reboots continued (no blue screens, and sometimes the PC just locks up AFTER I've finished playing a game - i.e. there is no demand on the GPU at that time, but it still locks). Something is ****ed.

In some desperation, I started fiddling with my other components - mainly the RAM. I have 2 x 8gb sticks and they run at slightly different speeds, which shouldn't be an issue because they both default to the slower speed. I tried taking one stick out and still had the issue, I tried the other stick and it didn't even boot for some reason, I swapped them around and dusted everything off and wala - no issues for about a month. Then, the freezing started again.

So I opened the case, used some compressed air with everything disconnected to de-dust the interior of the case (there was minimal dust in there anyway, but it was still a bit dusty). I cleared up my fans, tried to make sure the PSU outlet was clear and gave the thing a bit more ventilation and what do you know - we're rolling strong again.

So I can't work out if I have maybe a RAM issue (seems doubtful despite being primary susptect), a MOBO issue (I still want to update the BIOS as I'm sure there must be a later version), a CPU issue, or a PSU issue. Its not an HDD issue as I of course already reformatted and re-installed everything and instantly had the problem. Could it really be a little bit of dust or MAYBE slightly poor airflow that's been giving me these headaches? I've never experienced anything like this before so thought I'd put this long sorry tale out there to see if anyone else has / has some insights.

What are the specs of the computer? How old is the PSU? It sounds like something is going wrong when the power demand fluctuates up or down.

Install HWInfo and start it before gaming - check temperature and voltage across the CPU, memory, GPU, SOC etc. when there's a lock-up.

 

[airborne]

My understanding is that both DIMMs in a dual channel pair must be exactly the same make and model (I don't think they are even sold separately, always sold as a pair).

I suggest that before buying, make sure that the DIMMs you intend to buy are on the QVL for your motherboard.

What's a QVL?

 

[The Voice]

My understanding is that both DIMMs in a dual channel pair must be exactly the same make and model (I don't think they are even sold separately, always sold as a pair).

I suggest that before buying, make sure that the DIMMs you intend to buy are on the QVL for your motherboard.

They don't have to be the same model, no. Don't even have to have the same timings, speed or capacity. It will work, but will only run at the speed of the slowest DIMM. For best results, always run matching sticks.

 

[The Voice]

What's a QVL?

It's a list on the mobo manufacturer's website that shows all compatible memory. Only DIMMs that have been tested by the manufacturer will be listed there, so you know it will theoretically work when you buy it.

 

[Markd]

What are the specs of the computer? How old is the PSU? It sounds like something is going wrong when the power demand fluctuates up or down.

Install HWInfo and start it before gaming - check temperature and voltage across the CPU, memory, GPU, SOC etc. when there's a lock-up.

It's an Intel i5 7600, 16GB HyperX Ram, GTX 1060 on an MSI B250m motherboard, and the PSU is a FSP Hydro 750W BRONZE fully modular PSU (bought in 2019). All in a nice neat CoolerMaster case. 2 x Hardrives, both SSD. So while its getting on in life, its not an old rig. The PSU is at the bottom of the case and ejects heat UNDER the case and there is some clearance on the case legs for that. The mobo was bought in 2017 so its old but I don't see why it should have any issues unless there are some direct incompatibilities with Windows 10. Don't know. Will have a look at HWInfo. i've also wondered if maybe the GTX 1060 is having problems with my dual display (haven't tested that yet). But ja, right now we're all gravy, for whatever reason.

 

[The Voice]

so I've been having a weird issue for the past year or so that I've struggled to deal with. It started with Cyberpunk and my PC having continual freezes/crashes. At first I thought this was down to the shitty state Cyberpunk released in, and some of it definitely was, but then I started noticing these crashes in other games that were moderately graphically intense (no issue on games like Fall Guys or Hades). I went through endless NVIDIA driver updates and changes, and while I noticed different issues with different drivers, the core issue of game freezes and occasional reboots continued (no blue screens, and sometimes the PC just locks up AFTER I've finished playing a game - i.e. there is no demand on the GPU at that time, but it still locks). Something is ****ed.

In some desperation, I started fiddling with my other components - mainly the RAM. I have 2 x 8gb sticks and they run at slightly different speeds, which shouldn't be an issue because they both default to the slower speed. I tried taking one stick out and still had the issue, I tried the other stick and it didn't even boot for some reason, I swapped them around and dusted everything off and wala - no issues for about a month. Then, the freezing started again.

So I opened the case, used some compressed air with everything disconnected to de-dust the interior of the case (there was minimal dust in there anyway, but it was still a bit dusty). I cleared up my fans, tried to make sure the PSU outlet was clear and gave the thing a bit more ventilation and what do you know - we're rolling strong again.

So I can't work out if I have maybe a RAM issue (seems doubtful despite being primary susptect), a MOBO issue (I still want to update the BIOS as I'm sure there must be a later version), a CPU issue, or a PSU issue. Its not an HDD issue as I of course already reformatted and re-installed everything and instantly had the problem. Could it really be a little bit of dust or MAYBE slightly poor airflow that's been giving me these headaches? I've never experienced anything like this before so thought I'd put this long sorry tale out there to see if anyone else has / has some insights.

List you system specs. And check event viewer for critical errors.

 

[The Voice]

It's an Intel i5 7600, 16GB HyperX Ram, GTX 1060 on an MSI B250m motherboard, and the PSU is a FSP Hydro 750W BRONZE fully modular PSU (bought in 2019). All in a nice neat CoolerMaster case. 2 x Hardrives, both SSD. So while its getting on in life, its not an old rig. The PSU is at the bottom of the case and ejects heat UNDER the case and there is some clearance on the case legs for that. The mobo was bought in 2017 so its old but I don't see why it should have any issues unless there are some direct incompatibilities with Windows 10. Don't know. Will have a look at HWInfo. i've also wondered if maybe the GTX 1060 is having problems with my dual display (haven't tested that yet). But ja, right now we're all gravy, for whatever reason.

I'm surprised a 1060 can even run Cyberpunk... it's definitely sufficient for Fall Guys but requires way more power for CP (high end 30-series cards still struggle with it sometimes). Your CPU is about 5 generations behind, too.

Maybe time for an upgrade?

Edit: do you turn off the second display when you're gaming? What do you have running on it, because your GPU has to render that, too.

 

[Markd]

I'm surprised a 1060 can even run Cyberpunk... it's definitely sufficient for Fall Guys but requires way more power for CP (high end 30-series cards still struggle with it sometimes). Your CPU is about 5 generations behind, too.

Maybe time for an upgrade?

Edit: do you turn off the second display when you're gaming? What do you have running on it, because your GPU has to render that, too.

sometimes chrome but generally nothing. a GTX 1060 was the "recommended" spec for Cyberpunk before it launched. Obviously that's not the case anymore. I'm busy playing Days Gone where again Steam says the 'recommended' GPU is a 1060, and when things are stable the GTX 1060 does very well with it. The CPU isn't taxed while playing either (runs at around 60% utilisation while the GPU is consistently 90%+). I'd like an upgrade but seriously - thats Motherboard (+-R2k), CPU (+-R5k), RTX 3060 (R11k best price) - ~R18k - I aint ready to play that game yet, especially if my problem is a PSU issue lol. Could you imagine getting all that kit and then having a freeze.

 

[The Voice]

sometimes chrome but generally nothing. a GTX 1060 was the "recommended" spec for Cyberpunk before it launched. Obviously that's not the case anymore. I'm busy playing Days Gone where again Steam says the 'recommended' GPU is a 1060, and when things are stable the GTX 1060 does very well with it. The CPU isn't taxed while playing either (runs at around 60% utilisation while the GPU is consistently 90%+). I'd like an upgrade but seriously - thats Motherboard (+-R2k), CPU (+-R5k), RTX 3060 (R11k best price) - ~R18k - I aint ready to play that game yet, especially if my problem is a PSU issue lol. Could you imagine getting all that kit and then having a freeze.

Depending on what RAM you're using, may need to add that to the upgrade list, too.

I'm always wary of "recommended minimum" lists. The fact that all your other games run just fine tells me it's not anything wrong with your system, it's just that CP 2077 wants a lot more than it's able to offer.

Is your GPU the 3GB or 6GB model, and how many PSU sockets does it have?

 

[_kabal_]

Cyberpunk runs “fine” @ 1080p medium settings on my rx480 4gb (30-40fps), so assuming the 6gb 1060 would be similar

 

[Markd]

Depending on what RAM you're using, may need to add that to the upgrade list, too.

I'm always wary of "recommended minimum" lists. The fact that all your other games run just fine tells me it's not anything wrong with your system, it's just that CP 2077 wants a lot more than it's able to offer.

Is your GPU the 3GB or 6GB model, and how many PSU sockets does it have?

Its the 6BG model with 1 x 6-pin connector (gigabyte). I got it specifically because the old PSU didnt offer 8-pin (my current one does). The RAM is DDR4 2133 (iirc) so it could use an upgrade but its not critical - I could get a rig up and running without that up front. I had the issue on CP2077 but I also had it on Days Gone and even Age of Empires IV - as I say I've opened the case, cleared out the dust, and given it some more clearance at the rear of the case and today no issues. Its annoying has hell when it does happen - I just absolutely do not have R18k kicking about right now. If I did I'd pull the trigger on an upgrade.

 

[Markd]

Cyberpunk runs “fine” @ 1080p medium settings on my rx480 4gb (30-40fps), so assuming the 6gb 1060 would be similar

yes when its not crashing its beautiful, but I have also seen what stronger cards can pull off and it takes it from "fine"/"very nice" to "holy **** wow".

 

[The Voice]

Its the 6BG model with 1 x 6-pin connector (gigabyte). I got it specifically because the old PSU didnt offer 8-pin (my current one does). The RAM is DDR4 2133 (iirc) so it could use an upgrade but its not critical - I could get a rig up and running without that up front. I had the issue on CP2077 but I also had it on Days Gone and even Age of Empires IV - as I say I've opened the case, cleared out the dust, and given it some more clearance at the rear of the case and today no issues. Its annoying has hell when it does happen - I just absolutely do not have R18k kicking about right now. If I did I'd pull the trigger on an upgrade.

Ok, was under the impression that it was only an issue with CP 2077.

Could be a power draw issue, but could be a lot of other things, too, obviously.

I'd start by reseating everything: RAM, CPU and GPU. Reconnect all HDDs. If it's still an issue, run with 1 RAM stick at a time.

If it's a modular PSU unplug any additional cables that aren't connected to anything.

Run Event Viewer, and check for WHEA errors.

 

[The Voice]

Oh, and forgot to add: update ALL drivers. I spent weeks with my system dying while idle. Turns out it was an outdated NIC driver.

 

[Markd]

Ok, was under the impression that it was only an issue with CP 2077.

Could be a power draw issue, but could be a lot of other things, too, obviously.

I'd start by reseating everything: RAM, CPU and GPU. Reconnect all HDDs. If it's still an issue, run with 1 RAM stick at a time.

If it's a modular PSU unplug any additional cables that aren't connected to anything.

Run Event Viewer, and check for WHEA errors.

I did a reseat of the RAM and the GPU and as I said the dusting, and the improved ventilation, and it seems to have made a difference. The Mobo being from 2017 though, I do suspect a firmware upgrade may be in order. I went through the entire MSI driver thing and made sure all the drivers were up-to-date. I think this is very likely a hardware issue but ja, its like a needle in a haystack situation (not that bad, but like, its not obvious whats going on here). When i get to replicate the issue again I'll go HWInfo and see what I get. In the Event logs it doesnt even get to say what happens before a freeze happens (nothing WHEA related). This did drive me to get an XBOX and I'm loving the stablity there, but ja I enjoy PC stuff still - particularly Days Gone right now - so my mind is back on cracking this damn puzzle.

 

[j4ck455]

What's a QVL?

Here's an example on a DDR4 product specs page (I remember this being on motherboard QVL pages, but maybe it's either or both if you're lucky):

F4-3200C16D-64GVK - QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

Check to see if your motherboard model is on the QVL for F4-3200C16D-64GVK. Ripjaws V DDR4-3200 CL16-18-18-38 1.35V 64GB (2x32GB).

www.gskill.com

Basically that page tells you which motherboards that DDR4 memory has been successfully tested with (there is also implied info about CPUs).

I'm not as brave as @The Voice so I will not be trying to mix different memory in the same dual channel combination, at least not anytime soon.

 

[The Voice]

Here's an example on a DDR4 product specs page (I remember this being on motherboard QVL pages, but maybe it's either or both if you're lucky):

F4-3200C16D-64GVK - QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

Check to see if your motherboard model is on the QVL for F4-3200C16D-64GVK. Ripjaws V DDR4-3200 CL16-18-18-38 1.35V 64GB (2x32GB).

www.gskill.com

Basically that page tells you which motherboards that DDR4 memory has been successfully tested with (there is also implied info about CPUs).

I'm not as brave as @The Voice so I will not be trying to mix different memory in the same dual channel combination, at least not anytime soon.

I’ve never done it, and never will - I have a Ryzen chip, and they’re super-sensitive when it comes to what RAM you’re using.

However, if you’re running an Intel system and on a seriously limited budget, you may as well just use what you can get, I guess, until you can afford better. The performance penalty won’t be as hectic as it would with AMD.

 

[Lupus]

I’ve never done it, and never will - I have a Ryzen chip, and they’re super-sensitive when it comes to what RAM you’re using.

However, if you’re running an Intel system and on a seriously limited budget, you may as well just use what you can get, I guess, until you can afford better. The performance penalty won’t be as hectic as it would with AMD.

They were super sensitive, they aren't really anymore. I've built 2 Ryzen systems a 1600 and a 2600 only the 1600 was a little iffy.

 

[airborne]

Has anyone had a 3950X that can give any tips on getting the best out of it?
Seems you can't OC them much, best is to just use them stock.

It was between a 2hnd 5800X or 3950X and the 5800X is better on all counts by not a huge margin except the 3950X has double the cores. I'll be using it for editing and I like multitasking/having everything running so more cores just seemed like the better idea. Interestingly overall the 5950X is only I think 2-5% better than the 3950X in real world usage on many design/editing software, according to Puget Systems, which makes a 2hnd 3950X a pretty solid deal.

If you don't need cores the 5800X is the best value for money, even new they are now around R7k, the realtively marginal premuim over a 5600X is well worth it in my optinion.