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Question of the Day: Which South African brand or product do you wish would make a return?
The Proteas - Our Team!
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satanboy
Psychonaut seven
MyBBOutkast
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Reeza Hendricks Record for South Africa A - 4 Centuries, 7 Fifties, 1204 Runs at an averages of 48.16. Highest Score of 141
How do you not pick him for the ODI squad??? Drop Miller!!!
Amla, Hendricks, AB, Faf, JP, Rossouw, QdK(wk), Rabada, Steyn, Morkel, Tahir
Those four are the only players which qualify as future XI players. CSA succession planning is very bad. Need more than the current 3 (Rabada, QdK&Rilee). Even Hendricks as the 4th doesn;t cut it. Look at India, England & Australia!!!
I'd go as far as to sacrifice one of Steyn&Morkel, preferably Steyn since Morkel is arguably a better LOIs bowler, and bring in Paterson. I'd also consider TdB/Rudi Second or for one of the batsmen Faf or JP. Plus Leie for Tahir. That would mean we have a spine of 7 for the future - Rilee, Paterson, Rabada, Hendricks, QdK, Leie, Second.
Amla, Hendricks, AB, Faf, Rilee, QdK, Second(wk), Rabada, Paterson, Leie, Morkel
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Vrotappel
Bulls fan
Cullinan: Amla’s opinion is blinkered
I have to agree that black players are now getting most of the opportunities at most levels. Surely they should feel less pressure and more should reach international level?
I have to agree that black players are now getting most of the opportunities at most levels. Surely they should feel less pressure and more should reach international level?
You only have to read the other threads on this forum when squads are announced to see that Amla is right about the pressure despite the selected players putting in performances in the Sunfoil/Momentum/Ram Slam competitions that led to their being picked. And Cullinan is talking crap about Stiaan, he is not making runs and he is being given a fair chance to improve, if it was a player of colour the first thing people think of is not that he is being given a chance, but rather that he is picked to fulfill a quota.
MyBBOutkast
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When Cullinan was screaming at the top of his voice for Thami Tsolekile to be selected he was labeleld a fool who no one listens to. Now he raisies questions about Amla's statements and he may suddenly be the most reasonable cricekt voice in South Africa. Watching this space...
MyBBOutkast
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I agree with you wholeheartedly! 100%!
Several people dropped Bavuma in their XIs despite him playing the last Test in India and impressing.
I'm pretty sure Stiaan is very grateful he is a player of colour. People make excuses for him that were not made for players like Prince(a #5) & Alviro(a #4) - "Stiaan is a #3 not an opener". Prince spared us a whitewash embarassment while opening.
Personally I don't think Ramela & Hendricks would have been as poor as Stiaan while opening the batting. He has been completely inept at the role, but everyone would go crazy if those two were selected to open tomorrow for the same reasons Amla outlined.
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AirWolf
Honorary Master
When Cullinan was screaming at the top of his voice for Thami Tsolekile to be selected he was labeleld a fool who no one listens to. Now he raisies questions about Amla's statements and he may suddenly be the most reasonable cricekt voice in South Africa. Watching this space...
First truth out of of your mouth. And Cullinan still is.
AirWolf
Honorary Master
:wtf: Thought he was white?
FrankCastle
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Here's the actual quote from Amla in response to Bavumas hundred:
“Obviously personally, I know the pressure, what players of colour go through when they first come into the set-up - certainly in our country,” Amla told IOL Sport.
“So, it was emotional for a lot of us. I think a lot of us felt that like it was a victory for the Proteas in the sense that the team environment is in a very good space.
“We both have very similar careers - the first time we do play international cricket, everyone doubts you. Either because of the colour of your skin, even though you’ve got the stats to back it up domestically, everybody doubts you for various reasons.”
Like Cullinan I'm disappointed Amla had to bring race into the mix in praising Bavuma.
Any batsman regardless of race will feel pressure if he fails the first few tests. Its not because of his skin colour. Even Van Zyl is under severe pressure and looks like its curtains for him if he fails at Wanderes.
If Amla is referring to a debut batsman then its the same with everyone. They ALL nervous coming into the side, playing test cricket for the first time.
Unless he is implying that the general consensus is that hardcore purists hope players of colour do fail so it puts extra pressure on them?
How many devoted fans would welcome a batting lineup made up of 6 batsman of colour selected purely on merit?
“Obviously personally, I know the pressure, what players of colour go through when they first come into the set-up - certainly in our country,” Amla told IOL Sport.
“So, it was emotional for a lot of us. I think a lot of us felt that like it was a victory for the Proteas in the sense that the team environment is in a very good space.
“We both have very similar careers - the first time we do play international cricket, everyone doubts you. Either because of the colour of your skin, even though you’ve got the stats to back it up domestically, everybody doubts you for various reasons.”
Like Cullinan I'm disappointed Amla had to bring race into the mix in praising Bavuma.
Any batsman regardless of race will feel pressure if he fails the first few tests. Its not because of his skin colour. Even Van Zyl is under severe pressure and looks like its curtains for him if he fails at Wanderes.
If Amla is referring to a debut batsman then its the same with everyone. They ALL nervous coming into the side, playing test cricket for the first time.
Unless he is implying that the general consensus is that hardcore purists hope players of colour do fail so it puts extra pressure on them?
How many devoted fans would welcome a batting lineup made up of 6 batsman of colour selected purely on merit?
AirWolf
Honorary Master
SA coaches deserve 'a lot more respect' - Elgar
Dean Elgar has provided a forceful defence of South Africa's coaching staff, who have taken a public battering in the aftermath of the team's back to back series defeats. Head coach Russell Domingo and his slew of support staff were most heavily criticised by former captain Graeme Smith who questioned whether the management was getting the best out of the players and directing them in the right way. Elgar insisted they are.
"My words are pretty firm. What's been said in the media is quite wrong and a little bit hurtful. Our management deserve a lot more respect, especially by those guys who have worked with them before," he said. "People don't know what our management team do behind closed doors, with regards to their work ethic and giving guys freedom to prepare their own way. They have ticked all the boxes in my eyes."
Elgar found no fault with either preparation or personnel although he conceded a full-time batting coach could be a welcome addition to a backroom staff that includes two bowling coaches. "Our preparation has been brilliant. That's a non-negotiable for us," he said. "I do think a specialist batting coach would add a lot of value. I know there have been a few guys asked to help us, to a bit of a negative response. Even though you are playing for South Africa, you sometimes do need that little bit of fine-tuning from someone else that is just observing from the sidelines. I do think there will be a benefit for one in the squad. With regards to who it would be, I'm not sure."
South Africa have been through three batting consultants, Gary Kirsten, Mike Hussey and Smith, who played under Domingo for nine months between June 2013 and March 2014. In that time, South Africa drew a Test series against Pakistan in the UAE, beat India at home and lost to Australia. That period also saw the retirement of Jacques Kallis before Smith signed off from the international stage, putting the team into its greatest transitional period in a decade.
At first, it seemed South Africa would cope with the loss of big names. They won a series in Sri Lanka and beat Zimbabwe and West Indies under Hashim Amla. But the frailties began to show in India, where South Africa were beaten 3-0 on turning tracks, and the malaise has continued into the England series.
Injuries to key members of their pace pack - Vernon Philander and Dale Steyn - have hamstrung then in one department while a misfiring batting line-up, which has been bowled out for their two lowest scores since readmission in the last two series, has handicapped them in the other. As a result, there have been questions asked about the mental strength of the side and whether the behind the scenes dramas including transformation, uncertainty over AB de Villiers' long-term future and now, the domestic match-fixing scandal is bleeding into performance.
Elgar admitted the scrutiny around the team's performances had not gone unnoticed but insisted the team remained united. "The best is to try and laugh it off. If you let that affect you, it's taking a few steps back. I'm sure every player will say they don't read what's in the media, I do read the media," he said. "It is disheartening to hear those things in the media but the Test side is a tight unit. I know that the cricket doesn't reflect that, but we are. I can vouch for that. It is a little bit unpleasant hearing it in the media. That's their opinions. I know from where I sit the Proteas are a strong unit."
But they are also a changing unit, and that may be the biggest difference between them and a settled England side. "The English players seem to know their game very well. Two years ago, they were in a similar position to us. They were getting a beating by Australia or another team. Their players have adapted very quickly. It seems like they know their role very well.
"They have a lot of impact players within their side. Ben Stokes adds a huge advantage with bat and ball and fielding at gully. They're also a very experienced unit. Especially with ball in hand, you can see they know their stuff. They're highly skilled and focused and they know what to do on the international circuit."
South Africa's experience has been whittled down to that extent that even Elgar, who has only played 24 Tests, is now considered part of a senior core, especially when it comes to the top two. Given that Elgar is the experienced opener he is expected to anchor the innings, something he wants to work harder on.
"I have been reasonably happy but in the same breath very frustrated as well. I've got three 40s, which if people know me, that really grinds me," he said. "I would rather go out for zero than in the 40s or 50s, when the hard work has been done. All you have to do then is apply yourself a little bit more. There are still two more innings in the series and I'll try and make it count."
If he can, it may strengthen his case as a candidate for the Test captaincy, which will be decided on during the winter break. De Villiers remains the frontrunner for the job but Elgar, who could have more years left than de Villiers, has been picked to lead the South African A side against England in a fifty-over warm-up match and may now start mulling the possibility of the main job.
"Since school cricket I was someone that wanted to lead from the front. I wanted to be the best in the side. It was something that was drilled into me from a young age. Irrespective of who you are playing against. It's about pride," he said. "If it had to come my way, it's something I will have to think long and hard about. I don't think it's something that's very easy. I know it's something a lot of guys take very seriously."
Dean Elgar has provided a forceful defence of South Africa's coaching staff, who have taken a public battering in the aftermath of the team's back to back series defeats. Head coach Russell Domingo and his slew of support staff were most heavily criticised by former captain Graeme Smith who questioned whether the management was getting the best out of the players and directing them in the right way. Elgar insisted they are.
"My words are pretty firm. What's been said in the media is quite wrong and a little bit hurtful. Our management deserve a lot more respect, especially by those guys who have worked with them before," he said. "People don't know what our management team do behind closed doors, with regards to their work ethic and giving guys freedom to prepare their own way. They have ticked all the boxes in my eyes."
Elgar found no fault with either preparation or personnel although he conceded a full-time batting coach could be a welcome addition to a backroom staff that includes two bowling coaches. "Our preparation has been brilliant. That's a non-negotiable for us," he said. "I do think a specialist batting coach would add a lot of value. I know there have been a few guys asked to help us, to a bit of a negative response. Even though you are playing for South Africa, you sometimes do need that little bit of fine-tuning from someone else that is just observing from the sidelines. I do think there will be a benefit for one in the squad. With regards to who it would be, I'm not sure."
South Africa have been through three batting consultants, Gary Kirsten, Mike Hussey and Smith, who played under Domingo for nine months between June 2013 and March 2014. In that time, South Africa drew a Test series against Pakistan in the UAE, beat India at home and lost to Australia. That period also saw the retirement of Jacques Kallis before Smith signed off from the international stage, putting the team into its greatest transitional period in a decade.
At first, it seemed South Africa would cope with the loss of big names. They won a series in Sri Lanka and beat Zimbabwe and West Indies under Hashim Amla. But the frailties began to show in India, where South Africa were beaten 3-0 on turning tracks, and the malaise has continued into the England series.
Injuries to key members of their pace pack - Vernon Philander and Dale Steyn - have hamstrung then in one department while a misfiring batting line-up, which has been bowled out for their two lowest scores since readmission in the last two series, has handicapped them in the other. As a result, there have been questions asked about the mental strength of the side and whether the behind the scenes dramas including transformation, uncertainty over AB de Villiers' long-term future and now, the domestic match-fixing scandal is bleeding into performance.
Elgar admitted the scrutiny around the team's performances had not gone unnoticed but insisted the team remained united. "The best is to try and laugh it off. If you let that affect you, it's taking a few steps back. I'm sure every player will say they don't read what's in the media, I do read the media," he said. "It is disheartening to hear those things in the media but the Test side is a tight unit. I know that the cricket doesn't reflect that, but we are. I can vouch for that. It is a little bit unpleasant hearing it in the media. That's their opinions. I know from where I sit the Proteas are a strong unit."
But they are also a changing unit, and that may be the biggest difference between them and a settled England side. "The English players seem to know their game very well. Two years ago, they were in a similar position to us. They were getting a beating by Australia or another team. Their players have adapted very quickly. It seems like they know their role very well.
"They have a lot of impact players within their side. Ben Stokes adds a huge advantage with bat and ball and fielding at gully. They're also a very experienced unit. Especially with ball in hand, you can see they know their stuff. They're highly skilled and focused and they know what to do on the international circuit."
South Africa's experience has been whittled down to that extent that even Elgar, who has only played 24 Tests, is now considered part of a senior core, especially when it comes to the top two. Given that Elgar is the experienced opener he is expected to anchor the innings, something he wants to work harder on.
"I have been reasonably happy but in the same breath very frustrated as well. I've got three 40s, which if people know me, that really grinds me," he said. "I would rather go out for zero than in the 40s or 50s, when the hard work has been done. All you have to do then is apply yourself a little bit more. There are still two more innings in the series and I'll try and make it count."
If he can, it may strengthen his case as a candidate for the Test captaincy, which will be decided on during the winter break. De Villiers remains the frontrunner for the job but Elgar, who could have more years left than de Villiers, has been picked to lead the South African A side against England in a fifty-over warm-up match and may now start mulling the possibility of the main job.
"Since school cricket I was someone that wanted to lead from the front. I wanted to be the best in the side. It was something that was drilled into me from a young age. Irrespective of who you are playing against. It's about pride," he said. "If it had to come my way, it's something I will have to think long and hard about. I don't think it's something that's very easy. I know it's something a lot of guys take very seriously."
sand_man
Honorary Master
Nuff said
MonkeysUncle
Expert Member
Interesting article on ESPNCricinfo: South Africa: giants without laurels
WaxLyrical
Honorary Master
Looks like all or most of our current Protea crop are former U19 national players. Out premier players like AB and # most certainly are.
Where do we draw future players from if the current U19 team can't make the grade. Worst world cup showing ever is testament to that.
Seems like players like Kallis and Smith are not bring groomed to be future stars. There literally is no one to take the reigns from AB and co.
What's going on?
Where do we draw future players from if the current U19 team can't make the grade. Worst world cup showing ever is testament to that.
Seems like players like Kallis and Smith are not bring groomed to be future stars. There literally is no one to take the reigns from AB and co.
What's going on?
We won the last addition.There are enough U19 teams in a single player's test career to make up 10 teams.
There are enough U19 teams in a single player's test career to make up 10 teams.
+1, odd statement.
We had a terrible under 19 world cup but lets not draw too many conclusions too fast. There is still club,university and provincial levels from which to draw players.
NZ also ended behind SA in the under 19 world cup and lost to nepal. Are they also done for?
NZ also ended behind SA in the under 19 world cup and lost to nepal. Are they also done for?
