The Renate Barnard - SAPS - Discrimination Case

[Devill]

Don't care. If she deserved the job she should have got it, period.

+1.

The police are a very important part of society and denying the best candidate the job in a struggling police force in a crime-shod country is fsck retarded....

 

[JungleBoy]

+1.

The police are a very important part of society and denying the best candidate the job in a struggling police force in a crime-shod country is fsck retarded....

However you are missing the point that this is about promotion to Superintendent and is not like she was denied employment...she was already doing the job.

It's like in the field of IT whereby you get Systems Engineer and Senior Systems Engineer doing exacly the same thing but being paid differently because of the job grades/titles

 

[Devill]

However you are missing the point that this is about promotion to Superintendent and is not like she was denied employment...she was already doing the job.

It's like in the field of IT whereby you get Systems Engineer and Senior Systems Engineer doing exacly the same thing but being paid differently because of the job grades/titles

No it is now the job of someone less capable to deploy and manage people who protect me and you..... Thus it might have even cost some people their lives.

Maybe your missing the point

 

[JungleBoy]

No it is now the job of someone less capable to deploy and manage people who protect me and you..... Thus it might have even cost some people their lives.

Maybe your missing the point

It doesn't seem like she would deploy and manage people but rather more like a fancy title and a little bit of an increase in salary. If it was a post for Director or even Senior Superintendent then I would tend to agree with you.

"Her non-appointment did not affect service delivery because she would have continued to fulfil the same tasks. She would have still attended to complaints from the public "

linky

Had she been appointed it would have aggravated representivity, leading to over-representation of whites at post level 9

Now I think it's safe to assume that there is over representation of Whites at post level 9 in that station. Dude, if you are farmiliar with gvt job levels/grading, you'd realise that post Level 9 is not even management.

 

[Kosmik]

It doesn't seem like she would deploy and manage people but rather more like a fancy title and a little bit of an increase in salary. If it was a post for Director or even Senior Superintendent then I would tend to agree with you.

What a pathetic argument. Sorry mate, that post is quite essential, to brush it off in the manner your claiming just proves whats wrong with this country.

It's a senior post for **** sake!

 

[JungleBoy]

What a pathetic argument. Sorry mate, that post is quite essential, to brush it off in the manner your claiming just proves whats wrong with this country.

It's a senior post for **** sake!

...and so is the rank below a Superitendent i.e. a Captain.
Unless you can explain exactly how the new title would have resulted in better results/service delivery, you still have no leg to stand on.

According to my previous analogy - a Developer and a Senior Developer, both write code and both report to the Manager. The Senior Developer has been in the department for longer and hence the need to give him a higher title so that he be paid more money. Does it mean he does more work, better, faster ?...Nope, not necessarily, he just happenned to have been there long enough to get a promotion. He could be just as lazy, incompetent etc. but because of the flawed system of natural progression called promotion he has to be paid more...why?

 

[Kosmik]

...and so is the rank below a Superitendent i.e. a Captain.
Unless you can explain exactly how the new title would have resulted in better results/service delivery, you still have no leg to stand on.

According to my previous analogy - a Developer and a Senior Developer, both write code and both report to the Manager. The Senior Developer has been in the department for longer and hence the need to give him a higher title so that he be paid more money. Does it mean he does more work, better, faster ?...Nope, not necessarily, he just happenned to have been there long enough to get a promotion. He could be just as lazy, incompetent etc. but because of the flawed system of natural progression called promotion he has to be paid more...why?

Lol, I don't want to work where you do. If a company is promoting people merely on length of time worked and not merit, they won't last. You don't need to give someone a higher title to pay them more. Most plain developers get paid more than basic managers of other departments. Your pay scale is private and cannot be assumed to be the same.

Natural progression called promotion? If that is what your work environment is like, then I would suggest going somewhere that a) either appreciates what you can do to fulfil a higher role or b) treats you according to your worth.

A family member of mine was a super. Theres a lot more to the job than you are blindly stating.

 

[Blaze786]

...and so is the rank below a Superitendent i.e. a Captain.
Unless you can explain exactly how the new title would have resulted in better results/service delivery, you still have no leg to stand on.

According to my previous analogy - a Developer and a Senior Developer, both write code and both report to the Manager. The Senior Developer has been in the department for longer and hence the need to give him a higher title so that he be paid more money. Does it mean he does more work, better, faster ?...Nope, not necessarily, he just happenned to have been there long enough to get a promotion. He could be just as lazy, incompetent etc. but because of the flawed system of natural progression called promotion he has to be paid more...why?

SO than if the post is only a glorified pay increase why is a black person eligible but she is not?

 

[Mila]

Lol, I don't want to work where you do. If a company is promoting people merely on length of time worked and not merit, they won't last. .

+10

If i sit on my ass and do nothing for 20 years I will be Director IT.

Well If i put it like that..... this is the way our government is run. Nobody wants to work, nobody wants to take responsibility.

You know he is right the lady was prolly not lazy enough for the government.

 

[DreamKing]

Err...do you fix the error or do you chuck the whole program out the window?

if the "system" can be abused => system failure

will you use a program every time it gives you an "error" message?

conclusion: AA/BEE are NOT WORKING!

One Word - Windows

...by this I meant no subtle reference to Windows.

first: windows is not a program, it is an OS!

second: may be my sentence is a little bit misleading, what I mean is a program will give you errors (no message) (eg, you click "print" will save your file or click "save" your files will be deleted)

 

[JungleBoy]

Lol, I don't want to work where you do. If a company is promoting people merely on length of time worked and not merit, they won't last. You don't need to give someone a higher title to pay them more. Most plain developers get paid more than basic managers of other departments. Your pay scale is private and cannot be assumed to be the same.

Natural progression called promotion? If that is what your work environment is like, then I would suggest going somewhere that a) either appreciates what you can do to fulfil a higher role or b) treats you according to your worth.

Let me enlighten you about the workings of gvt remuneration systems.
Staff members on the same scale and same notch get exactly the same pay. The only exception is the new Occupational Salary Dispensation system which takes into consideration working conditions and locations.
That is a fact and there is nothing confidential about one's salary either. I have been there and therefore know what I'm talking about. Also Gvt does not apply perfomance based increases as everyone gets the same salary adjustment regardless of perfomance. The only way to increase one's salary is by moving up the levels, hence my choice of words "natural progression".

A family member of mine was a super. Theres a lot more to the job than you are blindly stating.

Actually it wasn't me that blindly stated that fact.

In fact it was ...wait.... for it

"Her non-appointment did not affect service delivery because she would have continued to fulfil the same tasks. She would have still attended to complaints from the public "

 

[JungleBoy]

first: windows is not a program, it is an OS!

Here is an elementary lesson for you.
Simply put using the transitional property of logic...
An OS is a program. Windows is an OS. Therefore Windows is a program.
Computer programs may be categorized along functional lines. These functional categories are system software (OS) and application software (end user software). System software includes the operating system which couples the computer's hardware with the application software.

So anything that is not hardware in a computer system is likely a program of some sort. It's either an OS, Compiler, Interpreter, End User Software, Middleware, Firmware, etc. but they are all programs....


Besides, why am I bothering with this out of topic discussion. You are probably still in high school learning to program in Turbo Pascal. Well I don't know what they use nowadays in high school but that's what we used in the early 90's

 

[Kosmik]

Let me enlighten you about the workings of gvt remuneration systems.
Staff members on the same scale and same notch get exactly the same pay. The only exception is the new Occupational Salary Dispensation system which takes into consideration working conditions and locations.
That is a fact and there is nothing confidential about one's salary either. I have been there and therefore know what I'm talking about. Also Gvt does not apply perfomance based increases as everyone gets the same salary adjustment regardless of perfomance. The only way to increase one's salary is by moving up the levels, hence my choice of words "natural progression".


Actually it wasn't me that blindly stated that fact.

In fact it was ...wait.... for it

Ok, I'll give you one for the government remuneration system. Just your analogy of developers through me a bit off

You don't think that's half the problem with government and the perception of government employees today? That seniority defines position rather than merit?

 

[JungleBoy]

+10

If i sit on my ass and do nothing for 20 years I will be Director IT.

Well If i put it like that..... this is the way our government is run. Nobody wants to work, nobody wants to take responsibility.

You know he is right the lady was prolly not lazy enough for the government.

She's been in the force for 20 years, and yet she has only managed to progress one or two levels...that's a sign of a hard worker right there

 

[NoLimit]

I must be VERY lucky

Guess I am going to have to retract all those other statements of mine
must be living on an island

MW

Yeah. Australia

 

[JungleBoy]

Ok, I'll give you one for the government remuneration system. Just your analogy of developers through me a bit off

You don't think that's half the problem with government and the perception of government employees today? That seniority defines position rather than merit?

Well, to put this into perspective, I started working for the Treasury in the middle of June 2007. During the week that I started my new job, all my subordinates were marching along the streets of Pretoria, striking for a raise. To my surprise my July salary was already adjusted by 8.5% before I even had a computer and a telephone in my office, go figure.

After six months I finally realised that my career was going one way and that was downhill...and I left.

As a young guy I found it really hard to stay motivated whilst working for Gvt.

 

[DreamKing]

Here is an elementary lesson for you.
Simple put using the transitional property of logic...
An OS is a program. Windows is an OS. Therefore Windows is a program.
Computer programs may be categorized along functional lines. These functional categories are system software (OS) and application software (end user software). System software includes the operating system which couples the computer's hardware with the application software.

So anything that is not hardware in a computer system is likely a program of some sort. It's either an OS, Compiler, Interpreter, End User Software, Middleware, Firmware, etc. but they are all programs....

you are BS now!

you should know that what I am talking about but you choose to crook and suit your definition! Fine, I am not the same level as you.

PS: if you do not understand what is "computer programming", I am fine for you to define "program" is OS. OS is belonged to "software", but not "program." Program is logic, not software! But I found that you are lack of capacity to understand that it is because you are a typical AA candidate.........

 

[JungleBoy]

Here is an elementary lesson for you.
Simple put using the transitional property of logic...
An OS is a program. Windows is an OS. Therefore Windows is a program.
Computer programs may be categorized along functional lines. These functional categories are system software (OS) and application software (end user software). System software includes the operating system which couples the computer's hardware with the application software.

So anything that is not hardware in a computer system is likely a program of some sort. It's either an OS, Compiler, Interpreter, End User Software, Middleware, Firmware, etc. but they are all programs....


you are BS now!

you should know that what I am talking about but you choose to crook and suit your definition! Fine, I am not the same level as you.

PS: if you do not understand what is "computer programming", I am fine for you to define "program" is OS. OS is belonged to "software", but not "program." Program is logic, not software! But I found that you are lack of capacity to understand that it is because you are a typical AA candidate.........

What Computer Science or IT related qualification do you have? Oh right, NONE...cause otherwise you would've understood my comments.

I guess I was right about that comment about you being in high school.. eh? Cause that whole explanation seems to have gone way way over your head.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Here is an elementary lesson for you.
Simple put using the transitional property of logic...
An OS is a program. Windows is an OS. Therefore Windows is a program.
Computer programs may be categorized along functional lines. These functional categories are system software (OS) and application software (end user software). System software includes the operating system which couples the computer's hardware with the application software.

So anything that is not hardware in a computer system is likely a program of some sort. It's either an OS, Compiler, Interpreter, End User Software, Middleware, Firmware, etc. but they are all programs....

you are BS now!

you should know that what I am talking about but you choose to crook and suit your definition! Fine, I am not the same level as you.

PS: if you do not understand what is "computer programming", I am fine for you to define "program" is OS. OS is belonged to "software", but not "program." Program is logic, not software! But I found that you are lack of capacity to understand that it is because you are a typical AA candidate.........

Oh please man, come back and post when you at least have a clue about what you're talking about.

There are only two things - hardware and software. If you need to write code then it's software. End of.

 

[Kosmik]

lol @ thread turning into a definations war