User Friendliness

[milomak]

Usability Lesson #1: Never make users go into a terminal window.

you do realise that almost by definition, 90% plus of Linux users use the terminal and still find Linux to be very useable? So I think your lesson is misguided.

EDIT: To add even though there are many GUI to install programs, no matter which distro I am using I still install my apps via the terminal.

 

[Deenem]

you do realise that almost by definition, 90% plus of Linux users use the terminal and still find Linux to be very useable? So I think your lesson is misguided.

EDIT: To add even though there are many GUI to install programs, no matter which distro I am using I still install my apps via the terminal.

Percentage of PC users comfortable using a terminal: 1%
Linux PC desktop market : 1%
Coincidence?

 

[Keeper]

UI is very important. i'm working on a project and the time taken to figure out where what goes takes longer than the coding itself.

As deenem said:

programmers are the wrong people to be designing user interfaces, programmers understand 'It works' or 'It doesn't work' they don't understand, 'It works, but it's difficult to use'.

You might not have a problem using a terminal, but you're already using linux!
The problem is the average user won't use linux, BECAUSE of that.

Audi's main engineer can probably drive the newly designed car with the gear leaver between your legs - but the average user can't.

So ya, i'm just agreeing with Deenem basically. the Office 2007 thing was a real nut-job, and vista too - i'm quite clued up with PC's but won't go for Vista (yet) because there is no reason to.
DX10 vs Learning the New way the OS opperates? i'll rather stick with XP for a few more months then....

 

[milomak]

Percentage of PC users comfortable using a terminal: 1%
Linux PC desktop market : 1%
Coincidence?

Look Linux has had a lower market share than it commands today and has existed without issue. Maybe Linux was created to serve 1% of the population. I have no issues with that because it seems I may well be part of that 1%.

I like it the way it is. Does that mean it won't get more users? Frankly I don't care as long as it continues to meet my computing needs.

But again, the terminal actually provides a great deal of userability in terms of experience. if people don't want to discover that it is their problem.

 

[MyWorld]

Great argument stating the Office 2007 and Vista failure.

It is true that when I saw the new 2007 interface I was like "how on earth can someone be productive with this piece of junk!" and I must admit, keeping to the basics in UI is probably the way to go, but therein lies a huge argument in itself.
Mac differs from Windows in a significant way, but no one think it not user friendly, so why must Linux follow Windows (at the risk of being sued for some arb intellectual property being used) when all it takes is to just sit for maybe a week and work your way through your new system.

Through the years I have found that the main applications seldom make mayor changes to the UI, it is usually a long gradual process with each release brining in a small change. There are exceptions, like the new KDE 4, but luckily so far that is in minority.

I do get the frustration that one has to learn something new, but generally in Linux if you spent only a few days getting the basics down, you are pretty much set. I remember my first Linux experience, I sat at the computer for days on end to try and understand this Mandrake 8.0 (I think) until I was so sick of Linux I wanted to puke just looking at the purple/blue scheme (this was before I knew of kde-look.org and themes).

But I'm pretty sure I will have the same experience now if I had to switch back to windows Vista, I have only seen screenshots of it and never worked on it, I knew XP quite well but now I can't even help with even the most basic problem since I haven't a clue as to what Vista is all about. If I had to pick it up now and start working on it, I'm sure I would get very frustrated with this "unfriendly piece of junk".

In short, I think allot of misconceptions and distrust can be cure if people only took the time to learn a new OS, then after a while you see that it actually fits you like a glove!

 

[Deenem]

Look Linux has had a lower market share than it commands today and has existed without issue. Maybe Linux was created to serve 1% of the population. I have no issues with that because it seems I may well be part of that 1%.

I like it the way it is. Does that mean it won't get more users? Frankly I don't care as long as it continues to meet my computing needs.

But again, the terminal actually provides a great deal of userability in terms of experience. if people don't want to discover that it is their problem.

Personally, I always hoped that Linux would present a viable challenge to Microsoft in order to drive innovation in desktop environments.

At it turns out, Linux has only challenged Windows in the server environment, and that means all the innovation is currently happening there, while desktop OS's are stagnating.

To me that's very dissapointing. I want innovation in the desktop environment , I don't want to be stuck typing commands into a terminal window.

 

[Boodles]

I see a lot of this for software installation... Ha! I think.

Installation

This is easy

Yeh right.

Why do people say this, and include it in their documentation.

 

[milomak]

To me that's very dissapointing. I want innovation in the desktop environment , I don't want to be stuck typing commands into a terminal window.

I would argue that actually moving away from the terminal has made it more difficult to self-diagnose and fix problems in Windows. I would hardly call that innovative when you disempower me.

I’ve used a number of Linux distros and as far as I know none have as one of their philosophy the goal of being the dominant desktop OS. I don’t even think Linus has ever wanted that. So it might be the case your expectations and hopes for Linux are things that the product is not looking to offer.

It provides a service to those that accept that the terminal is an integral part of what they are getting themselves into. There may be those distros that minimize contact with the terminal, but the basic architecture of the beast remains. And I have not seen any developments that suggest to me that there is an attempt to change this.

And I think it is with this in mind that one must choose to use or not use Linux. In that it’s target market is very happy with the way it is built.

 

[Keeper]

I don’t even think Linus has ever wanted that.

who's Linus? is he the guy with the Red Hat?

 

[milomak]

I see a lot of this for software installation... Ha! I think.



Yeh right.

Why do people say this, and include it in their documentation.

I can only you imagine you are talking about installing software that doesn't come from the repos. Which even I find quite unusual these days. But then I sometimes choose quite obscure software to test so find that, unsurprisingly, it is in't in the repos.

Which software gave you a hard time and on which distro?

 

[Kloofvreter]

who's Linus? is he the guy with the Red Hat?

Besides another Chasel thread that made my day, this one tops it! Thanks guys!

 

[PsyWulf]

who's Linus? is he the guy with the Red Hat?

He's Charlie Brown's mate with the blankie

 

[rwenzori]

There are always many "user friendliness" lessons to be learned from Apple at:

http://developer.apple.com/document...Guidelines/XHIGIntro/chapter_1_section_1.html

 

[Deenem]

I’ve used a number of Linux distros and as far as I know none have as one of their philosophy the goal of being the dominant desktop OS. I don’t even think Linus has ever wanted that. So it might be the case your expectations and hopes for Linux are things that the product is not looking to offer.

I have to say that, unfortunately, i agree with you.

It was once my hope that Linux would create sufficient competition in the desktop OS market to get Microsoft off their lazy backsides and start innovating again. (look at how they abandoned Internet Explorer until FireFox came along). I believe many people held the same hope that I did and are now dissapointed in the poor effort that Linux has made in driving innovation.

Right now, it seems like Apple is building the sort of threat that is causing MS to respond, so maybe all is not lost.

 

[Snowolf]

I my self am a great supporter of linux and love he freedom offered by it BUT we are the minority.
most people like being told what to do and Microsoft is very good at doing that.
I live, eat and breath internet and make educated (most of the time) decisions on what software I need to use to get job X done.
Joe Soap wants to walk into incredible deception and pick up a product from the shelf that he will use only 10 % of its potential but it will get the job done even though it costs more than the hardware.
what Mr Joe wants is a solution in a box that he can understand and go on a course on to get trained up on product Y.
What Joe wants is a working product backed by a help line he can phone when things go wrong and something that does not require any kind of brain power to use.
The big thing is Mr joe gets overwhelmed with linux, count the distros if you can. which one does he settle with and is the software compatible ?

this can also be defined as user friendliness, which one do you befriend ?

Microsoft love this, over the past 10 years they have had only 5 releases (i'm talking SOHO releases, not server solutions )
ubuntu gives a full OS every 6 months so every 6 months you have a total replacement of the OS and hope that everything works which it usually does not. (sorry, picking on my fav distro)

...............................................................
takes a breath, switches PC off and stomps out of room

 

[milomak]

I believe many people held the same hope that I did and are now dissapointed in the poor effort that Linux has made in driving innovation.

Can you list some of these innovations you believe Linux failed to make Microsoft deliever? The way your statement is posed is almost like saying you blame porsche for not driving fuel efficiencies in mass produced cars down.

I don't know whether one could say linux has been a driver in open source software. if it can be said then it has been a huge driver in innovation in my book.

 

[Deenem]

Can you list some of these innovations you believe Linux failed to make Microsoft deliever? .

No, I can't name a single one, but that's what the problem is.

Other than 3D desktops there hasn't been a single significant innovation in desktop OS's since Windows 95.

13 years later all we have to show for it is transparent windows.

If MS had had some competition in the past 13 years, there would be a 100 innovations more significant than 3D windows that we would be enjoying now, but aren't, because there has been no competition.

A lot of people had a hope that Linux would force MS to start developing more significant innovations to Windows (the same way that FireFox has forced them to start innovating with Internet Explorer), but it just hasn't happened, and that is very frustrating for people like me, who believe that there is a lot of room for improvement in desktop OS's.

 

[milomak]

I don't understand how you believe there could be innovation yet say you can't think of one example of innovation. You yearn for something yet don't know what this thing is? What would you like your desktop OS to be doing better?

 

[Deenem]

I don't understand how you believe there could be innovation yet say you can't think of one example of innovation. You yearn for something yet don't know what this thing is? What would you like your desktop OS to be doing better?

Think about it this way:

It is the equivalent of going back 200 years, walking up to someone and asking them, 'Why are you still driving around in a horse drawn cart. Don't you know that it's betterand more convenient to drive around in a car?"

Firstly, No, they don't know that driving around in a car is faster because cars haven't been invented yet. Just like I don't know what innovation is going to make it easier to use desktop computers because no-one has thought of it yet. The problem is that right now, we're going to be stuck with a horse drawn cart forever because there is no innovation taking place in desktop OS developement. There are no people sitting around asking, how do we improve this thing? how do we make is easier to use. Desktop OS development is competely stagnant.

Secondly, to say that there's nothing wrong with a terminal window is the same as saying, "I'm perfectly happy with my horse drawn cart. I don't want anything better than this."

And that's the problem. As long as people saying, 'There's nothing wrong with the horse cart', as long as no-one is devoting any time to improving that horse cart, trying to improve it, then we'll never invent the car, we'll never invert the engine, we'll always just be stuck with what we've got. Our crappy old horse drawn cart.

 

[hawker]

No, I can't name a single one, but that's what the problem is.

Other than 3D desktops there hasn't been a single significant innovation in desktop OS's since Windows 95.

13 years later all we have to show for it is transparent windows.

If MS had had some competition in the past 13 years, there would be a 100 innovations more significant than 3D windows that we would be enjoying now, but aren't, because there has been no competition.

A lot of people had a hope that Linux would force MS to start developing more significant innovations to Windows (the same way that FireFox has forced them to start innovating with Internet Explorer), but it just hasn't happened, and that is very frustrating for people like me, who believe that there is a lot of room for improvement in desktop OS's.

http://www.mi80.com/node/1760
Read that^

One comment heard often is “Linux was five years behind XP, and it's 10 years behind Vista!” Well, here are some facts:
Windows began separating the basic user from the administrator account by default in Vista, over 15 years behind Linux.
Windows added a firewall in 2001, over seven years behind Linux's 1994 addition of ipchains.
Linux was the first operating system with x86_64 support, beating Windows XP Pro x64 by two years.
Windows added an attractive 3D accelerated graphical interface in Vista, a full year behind Linux's XGL.
Linux's package management system can install, uninstall, and update software from one interface. Everything installed from Apache to OpenOffice and Quake 4 may be updated with one press. Windows has nothing like this on the road map.

And Linux isn't slowing down. The Xen project has added an incredible level of virtualization to Linux, with more work going into the kernels development to add enterprise ready virtualization built-in [4]. Microsoft promised built-in Xen-like virtualization in Windows Server 2008 next year, but has announced that feature has been delayed and should be available sometime after launch [1], possibly in SP1, meaning Linux will lead with built-in virtualization by at least a couple of years before Windows catches up.