Vodacom CEO explains BlackBerry problems and plans

[BinaryJack]

Well, I read the act a while ago, typical long winded document, great for us consumers. But from a purely logical observation, them blocking a site that is illegal in the first place, can't be against the act. Since the over riding factor is, that the sites they will block sole purpose is the distribution of illegal content. Thus, them being on the site would imply intent. If they wanted to go there for research, they can use a PC

You're muddling a number of factors here of which all are mutually exclusive.
The T&C's of VC BIS service pertains only the T&C's of VC BIS service. Nothing else.
The T&C's of VC does not pertain to any illegal activity that might include sharing of obscene images that is considered illegal by the resident country.
And once again even if they have access to RIM's encrypted data, that would be breach of privacy.
And why would RIM allow access to private and confidential information if they denied it to governments.

Accessing personal and confidential data for any reason will open a schitt storm that will make the last two days look like a fart.

 

[BinaryJack]

I don't think we read the same article then.
It's all about how you interpret Unlimited Internet usage from a common language. In which case common language will be "no limited internet browsing" that is how I see it anyway.

That is the actual problem.
Interpretation is now a key factor and if you look at that article, VC said one thing and CPA said another.
What is unlimited internet usages to you might mean something completely different to another person.
No company will take on the CPA.
They will more likely void a contract and pay damages to even put foot in the direction of the tribunal.

 

[sand_man]

Which begs the question, what shoddy state is the BIS service in if 2% (not 5%) of customers using more than 100MB per month results in the service running at full capacity and diminishing the service to the majority of users...?

Which is what I'm thinking.... The throttle was brought in to supposedly improve the service for the majority of users. What if the quality of service remains poor despite the throttling??? What recourse does the consumer have then?

 

[Valis]

or the logistics it would take to actively monitor and administer action against even a small percentage of abusers amongst the 1.2mil subs

Er, didn't Jannie just say he's got the number of the 30GB abuser and will be giving him/her a call? So much for logistics

Reading the statements/press releases/comments from VC they are clearly lying about their agenda. The majority of 98% of BIS users use less than 40mB a month? Seriously, pull the other one. VC have been twisting and spinning and changing their story every time. This is about a greedy company trying to screw over their customers and then blaming it on the customer!

 

[DJ...]

So the announcement was made without the CEO's approval?

Can the lies go any further? How can such an announcement be made without his knowledge?

Vodacom is really making us out to be complete and utter retards...

and they say that they are running at capasity. This is the reason for the 100mb. not the 5% abuse. Lots of cheap BB and lots of kids using it. Kids now use it to spam their friends with a cr@p load of mails. It is now the new mxit

Yes, if you cut through all the noise, it really comes down to what a fair number is? 100MB was just too low, 300GB clearly too high, so what's a good number?

My (personal) view was look at what the typical user is doing and multiply that with a factor of 3 to 5 to be safe. Thus my feelings around 500MB with decent throttling after that. It would give enough of a head-room for even the peeps here that started reporting their usage.

Also, most operators are selling 500MB of data at around R150/month, so 500MB for R59 with no capping is a very good deal.

But that's my view, not formal policy at this point in time.

Hi Jannie,

I personally (coming from a marketing, business and PR background) believe that this sort of move will not dig Vodacom out of the PR nightmare that this has created. This move merely attaches (what is effectively) an arbitrary figure to the problem. While this may seem like a slight U-turn on my position, since I originally suggested that 500MB might be a fair move, I've since reconsidered my thinking on this matter in light of what it has caused, and what really constitutes abuse of an unlimited product. And remember that the vast majority of users voted for more than 500MB.

Change the figure to 500MB and we're back at square one again, with the argument being "does 16MB per day constitute abuse of the service?" Well for as long as it's marketed as an unlimited product, one cannot categorise abusers in such a manner. While it may constitute fair usage in consideration of the fact that the service is not intended to be used as a downloading mechanism, it simply flies in the face of what an unlimited product really is. I personally believe that you bigwigs need to create a task team made up of product development, marketing, IT, RIM and PR specialists to tackle this issue that you yourselves have created. It's now out in the open and will continue to be debated until Vodacom come back with their next proposed "solution" to abuse.

Note that my argument does not stem from a wish for the service to be abused, nor from a position of apathy for the abusers. Instead, I feel that it would be totally unfair to market your product as unlimited as long as you're categorising your users as abusers for using 16MB per day. This would be considered as completely out of touch with your consumers who utilise the product to its full potential (note: not abusers here).

If you really wanted to show a willingness to fairly address the problem, then why not approach a mybroadband member who is well versed and in touch with consumer interests in this respect (like morkhans or ginggs for example) to play a role in the task team? In one simple move you begin to change the negative public perception and actually begin to address this issue on far fairer terms. You also show a willingness to further entrench your engagement with your customers and slowly begin to educate them on the internal pressures and limitations this issue places on Vodacom. A willing member who can maintain an updated blog on the issue forms a part of the PR reversal.

I believe that Vodacom need to think out of the box to both resolve this issue and re-instil good faith within your customer base...

 

[Nerfherder]

Er, didn't Jannie just say he's got the number of the 30GB abuser and will be giving him/her a call? So much for logistics

Reading the statements/press releases/comments from VC they are clearly lying about their agenda. The majority of 98% of BIS users use less than 40mB a month? Seriously, pull the other one. VC have been twisting and spinning and changing their story every time. This is about a greedy company trying to screw over their customers and then blaming it on the customer!

Most users are EDGE users and wont do more than 40 meg in a month... I have a tonne of relatives with BIS who just have it so they can BBm each other there must be lots of customers like this.

3g users who actually use the data connection... now that is a different story. They have admitted that 100meg is unreasonable.

 

[dracolusus]

Which begs the question, what shoddy state is the BIS service in if 2% (not 5%) of customers using more than 100MB per month results in the service running at full capacity and diminishing the service to the majority of users...?

its a 1gbps pipe, capable of handling nearly 9 TBs of data a day. Its not shoddy service that can't handle the 5% which is "more than 100MB per month" Its guys downloading 10GB a day, 24/7. Multiply that by say 500 abusers (random number of abusers I thumb sucked, out of the 60k people in the 5% catagory)...that is over 5TB a day...effectively, that would be 60% of your network utilised by eejits. That isn't takin into account the traffic from the other 1.2 MILLION people.

If the number of abusers was 1000, it would be over 10TB and in effect, the pipe would be congested and we would see BBM's not going through, or FB not loading, etc, as we do sometimes on a daily basis.

Hopefully VC can amend their policies, and keep in line with the CPA, but absolutely NAIL these guys. If the fair policy thing gets sent out, I'd love to see someone's reaction to getting a bill for 300GB of data.

 

[Valis]

I have a tonne of relatives with BIS

The plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". I would love to see some hard data re BIS data usage, not just some number someone pulled out or their a..e. Even on EDGE I find the 40mB number hard to believe.

Edit: As I see it the guys who are tethering the phone are breaking the T&Cs of the contract and can be legally blocked/thrown off. As Jannie has clearly (maybe inadvertently) shown is that it is a piece of cake for VC to find the abusers and deal with them. That still raises (not "begs") the question, why do they want to limit people to 100mB? I can see no reason except them wanting to protect their profits at the expense of the consumer.

 

[DJ...]

its a 1gbps pipe, capable of handling nearly 9 TBs of data a day. Its not shoddy service that can't handle the 5% which is "more than 100MB per month" Its guys downloading 10GB a day, 24/7.

Agreed. My post however related to the previously proposed solution of creating a 100MB cap. It also related to Jannie's suggestion of 500MB. How can one suggest such low caps if the issues do not stem from the cap numbers proposed? If the issue is higher up the bandwidth scale, then place the cap there, not lower in order to create some sort of headroom, a headroom that Vodacom have agreed would be fair for them to invest in as opposed to punishing their users to create...

 

[BinaryJack]

A slight off topic comment.
I wonder what Cell C, 8ta & Virgin is going to make of this.

 

[DJ...]

A slight off topic comment.
I wonder what Cell C, 8ta & Virgin is going to make of this.

AFAIK Cell C and 8ta have already publicly stated that they have absolutely no intention of placing any sort of cap on their Blackberry users. Whether or not Blackberry form a part of their strategies is another story altogether, but it's a well executed bit of PR on their parts...

 

[Valis]

If the issue is higher up the bandwidth scale, then place the cap there, not lower in order to create some sort of headroom, a headroom that Vodacom have agreed would be fair for them to invest in as opposed to punishing their users to create...

Q.E.D.

 

[dracolusus]

Er, didn't Jannie just say he's got the number of the 30GB abuser and will be giving him/her a call? So much for logistics

Reading the statements/press releases/comments from VC they are clearly lying about their agenda. The majority of 98% of BIS users use less than 40mB a month? Seriously, pull the other one. VC have been twisting and spinning and changing their story every time. This is about a greedy company trying to screw over their customers and then blaming it on the customer!

Actually, I have it on good authority, that the actual average usage across the entire base is 26mb (RIM compressed)...The actual agenda was to try stop the abusers, better the BIS service for everyone and yes, shock horror, save the business money. I know this seems like a foreign concept, since you are just a troll, but try work with me here.

 

[BinaryJack]

AFAIK Cell C and 8ta have already publicly stated that they have absolutely no intention of placing any sort of cap on their Blackberry users. Whether or not Blackberry form a part of their strategies is another story altogether, but it's a well executed bit of PR on their parts...

Yep, I can imagine the marketing campaigns being created now to capitalise on VC's faux pas.
Cell C - We will never cap your BISness potential!

 

[BinaryJack]

Actually, I have it on good authority, that the actual average usage across the entire base is 26mb (RIM compressed)...The actual agenda was to try stop the abusers, better the BIS service for everyone and yes, shock horror, save the business money. I know this seems like a foreign concept, since you are just a troll, but try work with me here.

Oh?
Average over all 1.2 million users or a limited sample?
How big was this sample?

 

[Nerfherder]

AFAIK Cell C and 8ta have already publicly stated that they have absolutely no intention of placing any sort of cap on their Blackberry users. Whether or not Blackberry form a part of their strategies is another story altogether, but it's a well executed bit of PR on their parts...

I wonder if they are having the same issues at all. Perhaps the leaches don't get the same speeds out of their networks and don't use them.

 

[DJ...]

I wonder if they are having the same issues at all. Perhaps the leaches don't get the same speeds out of their networks and don't use them.

I highly doubt that they experience the same issues as Vodacom do from a congestion perspective so they can come out with smart PR announcements like they did. That's one thing I think we all forget here - Vodacom are experiencing a problem and are trying to fix it. Whether or not this problem is created by Vodacom or not is another question altogether. In my opinion, they should have seen this coming, invested in the network, targeted the abusers (and only the abusers in a smart manner) and come out with a marketing campaign showing their astute business sense. Instead, we got this...

 

[DJ...]

Vodacom have four ways in which they can deal with this issue.

1 - they can carry on proposing arbitrary and even moveable caps, which will no doubt result in more bad PR for them.

2 - they can look internally into the BIS service, analyse its current capabilities, project future use, transparently communicate this with their customers, and find a middle ground of VOD/RIM investment and intelligent, informed caps if necessary.

3 - they can restructure, rebrand and relaunch the entire product offering.

4 - a combination of all of the above.

We cannot forget that if the problems are that RIM have a limited APN (based on my limited understanding of the issue) then liability sits to some extent with them to increase their investment, especially considering that they wish to push more 3g capable handsets through Vodacom...

 

[dracolusus]

Oh?
Average over all 1.2 million users or a limited sample?
How big was this sample?

I'll have to ask again, but I iirc it was the average of the 95% (minus the 5%/above 100MB users)...

 

[sin_x]

Actually, I have it on good authority, that the actual average usage across the entire base is 26mb (RIM compressed)...The actual agenda was to try stop the abusers, better the BIS service for everyone and yes, shock horror, save the business money. I know this seems like a foreign concept, since you are just a troll, but try work with me here.

unfortunately, jannievanzyl does not count as "good authority" in this case