Vodacom CEO explains BlackBerry problems and plans

HTC_guy said:
ah ok I see where you coming from now :)

still I wouldnt worry too much.... ;)

So... ARE you one of the downloaders? Im dying to know! :D
Click to expand...

I wish! :D
Unfortunately my monthly usage is in excess of 100mb :rolleyes: defines me as an "abuser".
Work financial reports PDF, xl sheets, ppt's and emails as well as general internet browsing, some images, voice and video clips via BBM is the extent of my usage.
 
Human said:
I wish! :D
Unfortunately my monthly usage is in excess of 100mb :rolleyes: defines me as an "abuser".
Work financial reports PDF, xl sheets, ppt's and emails as well as general internet browsing, some images, voice and video clips via BBM is the extent of my usage.
Click to expand...

Think you'll ever exceed 500mb?
 
Pitbull said:
Unlimited internet browsing

vs

Torrent Websites used for nothing else but P2P sharing

I'm sorry but I don't agree with you:

Unlimited browsing in normal terms means you can browse to your hearts contents. It doesn't mean you can now go and watch child porn or donkey porn. Same with torrents, no where does BIS say unlimited downloads or streaming does it?
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Oh of course! :D
P2P is different but how do they do p2p via BB in any case?
APN via 3G dongle + PC?

What is the bis slogan btw?
Unlimited internet? or Unlimited internet browsing?
 
Human said:
Oh of course! :D
P2P is different but how do they do p2p via BB in any case?
APN via 3G dongle + PC?

What is the bis slogan btw?
Unlimited internet? or Unlimited internet browsing?
Click to expand...

Unlimited internet in common language is browsing :p

That is where the problem comes in:

. These Abusers connect their phones as modems to their desktops (there is software to allows this apparently)
. They download zipped files shared on certain sites specifically for BB users and they then save it on memory cars on the phone and export to their PC's

This should be stopped I fully agree 100%. But don't tell me I can't use 10GB's a month if I need it for whatever reason when I'm using the service as intended. (This is obviously just a stupid figure)
 
In all this what's legit content or not, we should remember the intended application of BIS is 'on-device', i.e. you can do what you want, within limits, ON the device. If you dock your BB, it switches to the internet APN.

I'm not saying this completely clears up the grey areas (it does not), but if you're downloading 300GB of stuff, it's pretty clear you're not using that on the device.

RIM used to manage this well with file size limitations (they still limit things like e-mail attachments, etc.). Services like YouTube and other streaming services also switched to the internet apn. But lately people have been doing clever things, like the HTTP gateways for torrent downloads which clearly is going against RIM's intentions for the service.
 
jannievanzyl said:
In all this what's legit content or not, we should remember the intended application of BIS is 'on-device', i.e. you can do what you want, within limits, ON the device. If you dock your BB, it switches to the internet APN.

I'm not saying this completely clears up the grey areas (it does not), but if you're downloading 300GB of stuff, it's pretty clear you're not using that on the device.

RIM used to manage this well with file size limitations (they still limit things like e-mail attachments, etc.). Services like YouTube and other streaming services also switched to the internet apn. But lately people have been doing clever things, like the HTTP gateways for torrent downloads which clearly is going against RIM's intentions for the service.
Click to expand...

most okes just download to a 32BG memory card on the device using sites like this or this

then go home and copy the stuff off
 
dracolusus said:
Isn't this a mute point, if the site is a site to download pirated / illegal material? That is like saying they have no right to block child porn sites...
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I don't think so.
This is something that they have to clarify with their legal department to verify in regards to "unlimited."
If you read my post regarding the CPA notes from techcentral you will see that it is a lot more complex than it simply being legal or illegal.
T&C's need to be in every day speak and clear to point where there can be NO misinterpretation or misunderstanding in regards to the product and/or service.

The problem comes in where VC has offered "unlimited" internet but never actually defined what it actually means.
 
When crime is committed the difference between "unlimited internet" and "unlimited internet browsing" is irrelevant. If I was RiSA (for example) I would want to investigate all these abusers = get a legal team onto it ASAP. There is just cause to suspect that piracy crimes are being committed and a judge may well agree (= court order). If a person is innocent it will be easily proven so there is no threat/shame involved for those innocent of crimes.

If/when Vodacom suspects that crime is being committed using its infrastructure should it remain mum about it and withhold such information from authorities?
 
jannievanzyl said:
In all this what's legit content or not, we should remember the intended application of BIS is 'on-device', i.e. you can do what you want, within limits, ON the device. If you dock your BB, it switches to the internet APN.

I'm not saying this completely clears up the grey areas (it does not), but if you're downloading 300GB of stuff, it's pretty clear you're not using that on the device.

RIM used to manage this well with file size limitations (they still limit things like e-mail attachments, etc.). Services like YouTube and other streaming services also switched to the internet apn. But lately people have been doing clever things, like the HTTP gateways for torrent downloads which clearly is going against RIM's intentions for the service.
Click to expand...

With torrents the file is in pieces so will look like lots of small downloads not one big file.
 
Human said:
I don't think so.
This is something that they have to clarify with their legal department to verify in regards to "unlimited."
If you read my post regarding the CPA notes from techcentral you will see that it is a lot more complex than it simply being legal or illegal.
T&C's need to be in every day speak and clear to point where there can be NO misinterpretation or misunderstanding in regards to the product and/or service.

The problem comes in where VC has offered "unlimited" internet but never actually defined what it actually means.
Click to expand...

I would have no problem with VC changing the terms to nail the real abusers and blocking them from abusing the service in such a way it wasn't intended.
But don't tell me you are going to restrict my usage because of Human downloading the net 5 times.

That is my point. And I'm sure I'm not alone on this.
 
Human said:
I don't think so.
This is something that they have to clarify with their legal department to verify in regards to "unlimited."
If you read my post regarding the CPA notes from techcentral you will see that it is a lot more complex than it simply being legal or illegal.
T&C's need to be in every day speak and clear to point where there can be NO misinterpretation or misunderstanding in regards to the product and/or service.

The problem comes in where VC has offered "unlimited" internet but never actually defined what it actually means.
Click to expand...

Well, I read the act a while ago, typical long winded document, great for us consumers. But from a purely logical observation, them blocking a site that is illegal in the first place, can't be against the act. Since the over riding factor is, that the sites they will block sole purpose is the distribution of illegal content. Thus, them being on the site would imply intent. If they wanted to go there for research, they can use a PC :P
 
Intentions mean nothing when it comes to legal contracts and the CPA has made this clear regarding the clarity and "understandibility" of terms and conditions with clear definitions.
/shrug
It is what it is unfortunately.

These are the current Terms and Conditions of Bis on the VC site.
As you can see it says nothing about a lot really.
Limitations: There is a restriction on the size and types of files that can be downloaded. HTTPS sites such as banking sites do not always display the way that they would on a PC and therefore do not allow users to login.

Streaming (data/content transmitted in real time, over the Internet, viewed on a cellular handset) is not covered by the basic monthly charge for the BlackBerry Internet Service. When attempting to access streaming content, the Internet browser will automatically switch to the WAP browser. Streaming content via the WAP browser will be billed according to your prevailing data tariff. The BlackBerry browser may or may not prompt you with the following message depending on your device configuration: ‘Switch to WAP for streaming media?’
Click to expand...

Jannie do you have the contract terms and conditions for BIs and "fair usage" agreement wording?

The problem comes in that there are no clear terms and conditions for usage at all.
 
Pitbull said:
I would have no problem with VC changing the terms to nail the real abusers and blocking them from abusing the service in such a way it wasn't intended.
But don't tell me you are going to restrict my usage because of Human downloading the net 5 times.

That is my point. And I'm sure I'm not alone on this.
Click to expand...

I'm looking at this from a legal perspective now and this has been my argument the whole time.
Unfortunately there is not much that VC can do regarding this and my opinion is confirmed by the CPA lawyer in the article I posted.

Check my Bis T&C's post above and you can see why there is such ambiguity regarding "fair usage".
 
Pitbull said:
So the announcement was made without the CEO's approval?

Can the lies go any further? How can such an announcement be made without his knowledge?

Vodacom is really making us out to be complete and utter retards...
Click to expand...

That's entirely plausible. CEOs do not vet every single PR notification - in fact I'd be surprised if even 50% of them go through CEO a approval process. I think a lot of people misunderstand the role of a CEO. In his truest form, a CEO's responsibility is to create shareholder value which based on VOD's performance since the annoucement, they have done, considering that VOD moved nearly 2% up on the news since Monday. That's not to say that he's not ultimately responsible for this sort of thing though.

They're going to have to do far more than simply U-turn and clarify their position though to win back the lost brand loyalty that this PR nightmare has caused. Pieter Uys needs to show some goodwill towards his customers - simply U-turning is not enough...

Beri said:
and they say that they are running at capasity. This is the reason for the 100mb. not the 5% abuse. Lots of cheap BB and lots of kids using it. Kids now use it to spam their friends with a cr@p load of mails. It is now the new mxit
Click to expand...

Which begs the question, what shoddy state is the BIS service in if 2% (not 5%) of customers using more than 100MB per month results in the service running at full capacity and diminishing the service to the majority of users...?
 
Human said:
I'm looking at this from a legal perspective now and this has been my argument the whole time.
Unfortunately there is not much that VC can do regarding this and my opinion is confirmed by the CPA lawyer in the article I posted.

Check my Bis T&C's post above and you can see why there is such ambiguity regarding "fair usage".
Click to expand...

I don't think we read the same article then.
It's all about how you interpret Unlimited Internet usage from a common language. In which case common language will be "no limited internet browsing" that is how I see it anyway.
 
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