Where is SA really going to end up?

[Rikus]

Watching this nasty little exchange between Bobby and Rikus...

IMO apartheids greatest crime was the denial of opportunities.

At least you had something to watch.
We were the actors and didn't even get applause.

The same can be said for Affirmative Action.

 

[Syndyre]

Most of SA is still uninhabited, there are small unknown towns all over, far from the cities that don't have problems regarding crime, but it's a rural way of life though being that far from civilization

Obviously uninhabited places will have no crime, there's nobody to commit it! The rural areas do have plenty of crime problems though, just look at the farm attacks!

 

[neio]

I've asked for both the protagonists to be banned for 1 day each, this kinda crap makes myadsl.co.za/vb an unpleasant place to visit and it's about time the usual suspects were made an example of.

 

[KillerX]

I dont see a future past 2010 in SA. Eventually (It will take time) this will end up like any other country in Africa - all the potential in the world - yet a complete failure.

 

[Macguyver1]

My opinion

Saying that crime is the main problem that faces S.A doesn't help, because crime is actually just a symptom of the bigger issue.

Why do we have so much crime? is it perhaps because although we live in these first world cities,the rest of South Africa is actually dirt poor and living in townships?.

Is it because we have 40% unemployment?, which was the same as in the U.S during the great depression.

Or is it because one of our neighboring countries has collapsed?, and millions of Zimbabweans are streaming into S.A and turning to drugs and crime when they can't find work.

S.A on its own has a good chance of being great, but S.A isn't strong enough to support all the illegal immigrants that are draining our economy.

The latest police report showed that most crimes in S.A were committed by non South Africans. I believe thats where our problems lie.

 

[BobbyMac]

I've asked for both the protagonists to be banned for 1 day each, this kinda crap makes myadsl.co.za/vb an unpleasant place to visit and it's about time the usual suspects were made an example of.

Well I'm still here, so I guess you'll just have to add me to your ignore list.

 

[BobbyMac]

1. Why do we need AA/BEE if whites are a minority?

Whites are a minority demographically - and that is the only thing that seems to count when election time comes.

2. Why does so many companies have a 25%+ "black ownership" deal, doesn't that indirectly insinuate a WHITE MAJORITY ?

White Majority is only present in company management - and that is mostly due to refusal to adhere to transformation. Like it or not, but there are more non-whites employed than whites collectively in all sectors - meaning non-whites hold the majority.

3. Why do we need quotas if whites are the minority?

Why do whites fight transformation in the form of BEE? Why are you and others on this very forum fighting AA and BEE tooth and nail?

4. Why is govt. STILL saying they are missing "transformation" targets if blacks are the majority?

Because companies are not playing ball by employing black managers and CEOs?

5. Why are farm land such an important issue? Is it maybe that the white "minority" is the MAJORITY doing farming in SA???

Why is farm land that important to whites? How many whites own multiple farms? Historically white people were allowed to own land where black people particularly were not. This has nothing to do with you - it has everything to do with correcting the **** that happened in the last 40 years.

..and point 5 ties with Zim, easy to go and say "oh whites are a minority, they can't do diddly in an election" , but if the same minority actually forms the basis of your entire country's food resources you are in for a real treat if you mess with that.

ROFL. I quite enjoyed these little altercations. One thing is for sure, if white people want to be successful in this country, then they should seize the opportunities to work with everyone - not just themselves. As for me, I couldn't really care less what happens in this country - I am only here because my dark skinned ass is so specialised that they couldn't even find a white boy to do what I do. I'm British mate. Though I hold SA citizenship it actually means diddly squat.

And finally, I will invite you and all the others who have personally attacked me throughout the last few pages of this thread and go and see how ANTI-ANC I actually am. Obviously I touched a very sensitive issue, that of White Pride, but that wasn't the issue - white superiority was the implication that I confronted.

 

[Rikus]

Bobby, my chum.
You think by being anti-anc you are immune from being called racist.
You, my friend, are as racist as they come.
Go back 2 pages and read your posts, no really, go!
That not racism?
Ooooh, I forgot, you can NEVER be a racist, you are anti-anc!
Get real.

btw, I believe you to be a black south-african with a huge chip on your shoulder.
Yes you are anti-anc, so are many other blacks like inkata, etc.
As for being british, only in your dreams my friend, only in your dreams!!!

 

[sox63]

This thread has really gone down the drain! Mudslinging at it's best.

 

[TELESPHORE]

I am only here because my dark skinned ass is so specialised that they couldn't even find a white boy to do what I do. I'm British mate.

And what is it you do?

 

[Rikus]

This thread has really gone down the drain! Mudslinging at it's best.

And meaningless comments aka trolling.

 

[BobbyMac]

I am a MS SMS and MOM engineer

 

[diabolus]

Heh the, questions were rhetorical and everyone answering is falling in the same trap.

White Majority is only present in company management - and that is mostly due to refusal to adhere to transformation. Like it or not, but there are more non-whites employed than whites collectively in all sectors - meaning non-whites hold the majority.

If the issue is "only" in management of companies, why need AA "on the floor" ? WHY? There's 8 black workers for every 1 white worker, the company needs 20 workers...again i ask you , why do we need AA if there isn't even enough whites!?

Why do whites fight transformation in the form of BEE? Why are you and others on this very forum fighting AA and BEE tooth and nail?

See my previous point. THAT is the essense of MY issue with AA/BEE. It's applied with complete DISREGARD of what is economically and socially required. Simple example: A public hospital who are 100% black who are understaffed and not coping but YET THEY ARE STILL applying AA.

Why is farm land that important to whites? How many whites own multiple farms? Historically white people were allowed to own land where black people particularly were not.

No, not important to whites, important to this country [and the elections where whites supposedly do not feature]. The fact remains, whites owns the land disproportionately to demographics, making them a majority "shareholder" in this country. The "method" with which this "white shareholding" is "fixed/adjusted" can make or break this country...and THAT is why "white minority" can pretty much influence an entire election.


I am concerned that blacks CAN NOT and ARE NOT farming when they get the opportunity.
I am concerned that blacks CAN NOT and ARE NOT getting educated and closing the "gap" when they get the opportunity.
I am concerned that govt. CAN NOT and ARE NOT managing and improving this country when they have the opportunity.


Yet blacks seem to have the time and energy to kick around the white "minority". Blacks "expect" whites to "help" them grabbing these opportunities, but at the same time undermine them.....huh? It's like changing the name of Potch and expecting the whites to pay for it......

Because companies are not playing ball by employing black managers and CEOs?

Really? I want to hear about >>qualified<< Black CEOs and Managers who are unable to find a job...... Why does the CEO of SAL have 38 Directorships , how about HE freaking give up 37 of those to these "unemployed black CEOs" ?

 

[BobbyMac]

diabolus: does South Africa need to correct the wrongs of the Apartheid era or not? Should everything remain as it is now, where business is run by whites and the vast masses suffer from poverty, or should at least some attempt be made to rectify that?

 

[Syndyre]

diabolus: does South Africa need to correct the wrongs of the Apartheid era or not? Should everything remain as it is now, where business is run by whites and the vast masses suffer from poverty, or should at least some attempt be made to rectify that?

Yes wrongs do need to be corrected but do you really think AA is the best way to do that?

 

[BobbyMac]

Yes wrongs do need to be corrected but do you really think AA is the best way to do that?

I don't know. In my opinion no matter which way you try and fix it 'relatively quickly', you're going to break some eggs. Can you think of a better way to achieve transformation?

 

[Syndyre]

I think part of the problem is looking for a quick fix, unfortunately with the kind of structural inequalities in SA there is no effective quick fix, anything is going to take time. I think the government needs to invest massively in education and provide low interest loans and bursaries to SA citizens based on income which would assist mostly black people by virtue of demographics but not exclusively. Then put laws in place to prevent racism/discrimination of any kind, rather than merely introducing a new kind.

 

[Skeptik]

I've asked for both the protagonists to be banned for 1 day each, this kinda crap makes myadsl.co.za/vb an unpleasant place to visit and it's about time the usual suspects were made an example of.

I think what really spoils things is when people complain behind your back as you appear to have done. (I assume that's what you mean by "I asked" and judging by your history.)

If you have an issue with someone, why not send them a PM? If you can't do that, then disagree in the debate. If you don't want to do either of those then go shopping . Chile is good for that I hear.

Complaining about complaints is just too much on a day like today.

 

[BobbyMac]

I think part of the problem is looking for a quick fix, unfortunately with the kind of structural inequalities in SA there is no effective quick fix, anything is going to take time. I think the government needs to invest massively in education and provide low interest loans and bursaries to SA citizens based on income which would assist mostly black people by virtue of demographics but not exclusively. Then put laws in place to prevent racism/discrimination of any kind, rather than merely introducing a new kind.

Then South Africans are in for a long and bumpy ride.

 

[diabolus]

diabolus: does South Africa need to correct the wrongs of the Apartheid era or not? Should everything remain as it is now, where business is run by whites and the vast masses suffer from poverty, or should at least some attempt be made to rectify that?

Of course, but within reason and with proper checks and balances. There's two directions when we talk about "rectify" :

1. Bring blacks UP [encourage/improve/aid]
2. Bring whites DOWN [punish/undermine]

To do #1 one you need whites/blacks who are already UP [right?]. If you apply #2 to
create the perception of brining blacks UP you are shooting yourself in the foot [right?].

The govt. retrenched whites, they "worked out" whites, they closed downed "white agencies" and replaced whites via their policies. INSTEAD if they merely "employed" blacks, "worked in" blacks, "expanded" white agencies and "increased" blacks we wouldn't have the glaringly shortages now.

We are now at the phase, where #1 and #2 were appled at the same time and whites became defensive and threatened and blacks are realizing they did not go UP at all! Whites will naturally refuse to "help" or "train" or "take part" because of #2 happening to them.

And no this is not a perception, this is real. The govt did NOT expand and improve, instead they systematically "closed shop" by applying #2 instead of applying #1 .

It MIGHT have helped if whites were actually INCLUDED in these laws/decisions that were and still are being made which directly REQUIRES their "cooperation" .....You're not gonna get cooperation if you trample all over them and blatantly ignore them. I'm certain whites were not included in the decision and method to apply AA/BEE , yet they play a pivotal role in it's success or failure. Now it's expected that whites cooperate and "aid" with AA/BEE what logic is that?