White skills returning for 2010

HosstheBoss said:
Pls point out to me where Telesphore made that statement and then I'll shut up! seeing as you took a dig at him!
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I never took a dig at him. My first post was responding to another line within this forum/topic that read

"Whites can get jobs - because generally they work twice as hard. However, they don't get the jobs they *deserve*. That's reserved for the BEE candidate."

I'm saying this is nonsense.
 
dlk001 said:
In the mining field, most whites are as uneducated as the Black People working in the stope face underground, yet, they earn 10-20 times more. Now, with the SAQA and MQA which will level out skills, they are now threathened.

Please, don't tell me they work harder than the slaves who dig the gold. I know most of them are lazy shift bosses who can only say one word "pikinini, get me some water"
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Sorry you said most, not all, hmmm hide behind symantics if you wish, the spirit of your post doesn't change though!

and I'm sure Telesphore will read your post the way I did

As far as black people in mines are concerned, i agree there has been and is unfair treatment, my only concern here in this thread however is the rediculous stereotyping going on. I see so many arguing the either or position.

" no whites guys are lazy; no black guys are lazy, no whites guys are lazy..." and on and on. Thats racism both ways

How about " there are a couple of guys at my work (white and black) who are fat, lazy bastards" ? I know i have that where I work. Only difference is I dont have to fear being called a racist if I tell one of the white guys he's lazy
 
A lazy person is a lazy person indeed. I have no issues with that.

Someone posted a racists statement

“Whites can get jobs - because generally they work twice as hard."

To my shock, I posted my observation that in my field, Whites are not superior to the black race.
 
dlk001 said:
Are you a shift boss, uneducated, getting positions that you did not deserve?

I've been using the ISS and CSIR minewide systems, intergrated them into numerical modelling (MAP3D, MAP3Di, MINSIM etc) to predict future seismic risk due to mining (near faults, shaft pillar, remnants etc).

Which one have you designed that can help us predict events so that we can evacuate people on time, and save lives? This would be very useful you know!
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Read what I wrote – Seismic Monitoring and Recording. What is done with the data is not the system’s problem and was never my task at all. The mapping models you mention are all well known models. I was though not involved in mining since installation of the system. Point is it was pioneering work. You might not even know anything about it as you started in 2000 with your education in this field.
The system was installed in +- April 1979 at the Blyvooruitzig mine in Carltonville. The researching Rock Mechanic was Steve Spotterswood. He eventually did his PhD with his prediction models and the data provided by the system. I don’t have the figures but I am sure you would be able to accurately report on the prevention results from the chamber of mines?
The prime and only reason for the system (at that time part of the Barlow Rand group) was to predict and I am sure logic prevails they would not have used a system for 20 years and then even replace it, if it had no value. The prevention of loss of lives is never news headlines, but the tragic loss is. Whas there ever a loss of live at Blyvooruitzig mine between 1979 and 1998 due to seismic events?
I would even go so far as saying that the ability to master this has deteriorated over the years. Just refer to the Klerksdorp disaster 18 months ago. Also more and more deaths due to rock falls occurring. And this after SA mines were getting safer. There might be other contributing reasons but I would bet my dime it is the skills to manage mines that have deteriorated.
Look at the scoreboard.
I grew up in the mines, at Klerksdorp. I have family that was miners. Mine worked hard and studied for their positions and were even also overstepped on. Miners are not the most finessed people on earth, it is a tough unforgiving and stressing live to have.
Anyone that have been working in mines would know there can be no deviation on the plans and instructions given, else it would cause certain disaster. SA Mines were the leaders in deep mining techniques. Therefore there had to be a military like command to ensure that everything goes according to the schedule. Are you implying the shift boss must be in the stokes working and forget to check on safety, task execution and whatever is required to keep that crew working and working safely.
 
icyrus said:
What happened to you xtermin8or old buddy? I'll really love an answer to this:
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Sorry for the delay in reply, was a little busy

I agree with Tambo - therefore I did not say I would only support a black government - but like in all areas of our society - it should reflect the demographics of society - now there are skilled, competent people in every race group just as there are lazy, incompetent people in every race group - the skilled, competent people would rise to the top - look at people like Tokyo Sexwale, Cyril Ramaphosa, Roelf Meyer, and Pieter Mulder - on the other hand you have those I am ashamed to share the planet with people like Fikile Mbalula, Eugene Terreblanche, the Boeremag etc.

@ those who were offended by my misspelling ( or whatever )of the name of the flag - I apologise for the insult to your beloved flag
 
xtermin8or said:
Sorry for the delay in reply, was a little busy

I agree with Tambo - therefore I did not say I would only support a black government - but like in all areas of our society - it should reflect the demographics of society - now there are skilled, competent people in every race group just as there are lazy, incompetent people in every race group - the skilled, competent people would rise to the top - look at people like Tokyo Sexwale, Cyril Ramaphosa, Roelf Meyer, and Pieter Mulder - on the other hand you have those I am ashamed to share the planet with people like Fikile Mbalula, Eugene Terreblanche, the Boeremag etc.

@ those who were offended by my misspelling ( or whatever )of the name of the flag - I apologise for the insult to your beloved flag
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I agree with some of what you say, but let's face it, people like Sexwale and Ramaphosa actually took (and are still taking) massive advantage of BEE to enrich themselves (and only themselves). Do you think it's right that Sexwale is a boardmember (and in most cases a director) of over 200 companies, quite simply because of BEE? Surely more black representation would have been better rather than 1 person being represented in so many companies? Ramaphosa himself is a director at more than 50 companies. Surely this is an indicator of BEE working in favour of the elite few. As for the others you mentioned. Aye.
 
it should reflect the demographics of society
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This is, IMO, the first step in moving towards an inefficient workforce. To limit your choice, of employees, to percentages of the racial makeup of society is just plain stupid. To turn down the person best for the job, just because you reached the ceiling on that race, does not make business sense.

Employ the person that will give you the best return on investment, because you do invest in your employees, and your business will flourish. But if you employ people only for the racial makeup, you loose sight on the purpose of employing people. You need a person with a certain skill, not a person with a certain racial affinity.

This whole idea of "it should reflect" this or that, is just plain silly.
 
@JontyB - most of Tokyo's and Cyril's wealth were made before the introduction of BEE - I do believe that their connections within the upper echelons of the ANC did help them to achieve their wealth - not completely right - but not so wrong either - (Chelsea Clinton is earning a six figure salary in the US )

The idea behind BEE strategy ( if you bothered to read the strategy ) is for the upliftment of previously disadvantaged (an understatement ) people in general
 
Nod said:
This is, IMO, the first step in moving towards an inefficient workforce. To limit your choice, of employees, to percentages of the racial makeup of society is just plain stupid. To turn down the person best for the job, just because you reached the ceiling on that race, does not make business sense.

Employ the person that will give you the best return on investment, because you do invest in your employees, and your business will flourish. But if you employ people only for the racial makeup, you loose sight on the purpose of employing people. You need a person with a certain skill, not a person with a certain racial affinity.

This whole idea of "it should reflect" this or that, is just plain silly.
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BEE strategies were only introduced to the country in 2003 ( AFAIK ) after 1994 control of big business was in the hands of whites, while balcks had won political equality, they suffered from economic inequality - Government called for skills transfers, mentorship programmes, etc. none were being undertaken enthusiastically or even at all

Government had to step in - and BEE was born - an attempt to level the playing fields - to bring people who had been downtrodden into the first economy of the country - without BEE and AA this would never happen.
 
xtermin8or said:
@JontyB - most of Tokyo's and Cyril's wealth were made before the introduction of BEE - I do believe that their connections within the upper echelons of the ANC did help them to achieve their wealth - not completely right - but not so wrong either - (Chelsea Clinton is earning a six figure salary in the US )

The idea behind BEE strategy ( if you bothered to read the strategy ) is for the upliftment of previously disadvantaged (an understatement ) people in general
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Actually not quite. I can produce sufficient evidence to show that Sexwale's ownership in companies has actually only blossomed to current levels in the last 5 years. In any case, comparing Chelsea clinton to the likes of Tokyo and Cyril is silly - Cyril and Tokyo have leveraged their association to earn Billions of Rands, not a 6 figure salary.
 
xtermin8or: I have to strongly disagree with you as to where the majority of Cyril's and Tokyo's wealth came from. I have to agree with JontyB and say that the model of the current BEE is wrong and only serves to create an elite that is more than likely highly politically linked.
 
In almost all economies there are people who are insanely rich, for one reason or the other, and others that suffer abject poverty - this is normal

but by your logic

Tokyo and Cyril are superrich becoz of BEE - so BEE is wrong
Trump, Gates, Branson are rich because of capitalism - so capitalism is wrong

didnt' know you were a commie dude
 
Jongi said:
xtermin8or: I have to strongly disagree with you as to where the majority of Cyril's and Tokyo's wealth came from. I have to agree with JontyB and say that the model of the current BEE is wrong and only serves to create an elite that is more than likely highly politically linked.
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how ? both Cyril and Tokyo were pushed out of the ANC - both men had higher political aspirations
 
xtermin8or said:
In almost all economies there are people who are insanely rich, for one reason or the other, and others that suffer abject poverty - this is normal

but by your logic

Tokyo and Cyril are superrich becoz of BEE - so BEE is wrong
Trump, Gates, Branson are rich because of capitalism - so capitalism is wrong

didnt' know you were a commie dude
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No. The point of BEE is to shift wealth to the majority. Cyril and Tokyo (and many many others) are using BEE to enrich themselves to insanely high levels. I am saying that is wrong. It is abuse of a system meant for something far greater. Period.
 
jontyB said:
No. The point of BEE is to shift wealth to the majority. Cyril and Tokyo (and many many others) are using BEE to enrich themselves to insanely high levels. I am saying that is wrong. It is abuse of a system meant for something far greater. Period.
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thank you, so we agree that the ideals of BEE is correct - some just use it more wisely than others ( rather than abuse it )
 
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