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Why can't Microsoft develop software for its Zune HD?
Another soul jealous of Microsoft's success.
I agree 100% that Microsoft plays dirty games sometimes, but any other company would have done exactly the same in order to get to the top. In fact, they still do. This is the nature of doing business.
I agree 100% that Microsoft plays dirty games sometimes, but any other company would have done exactly the same in order to get to the top. In fact, they still do. This is the nature of doing business.
Jealous of?
Look at this:
Report: iPhone grabs 32% of global handset profits
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=11651
Letters from Microsoft: An Employee Tosses His Zune
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/...rosoft-an-employee-tosses-his-zune/#more-3713
Canalys: iPhone outsold all Windows Mobile phones in Q2 2009
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...old_all_windows_mobile_phones_in_q2_2009.html
Apple’s valuation greater than HP and Dell combined
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/07/28/apples-valuation-greater-than-hp-and-dell-combined/
Even the iPhone 3GS has reached No 1 spot in the most demanding market in the world, Japan.
(And Japanese cell phones are usually superior to our western ones anyway)
( http://techvi.com/news/2009/08/iphone-3gs-most-popular-phone-in-japan-for-july/ )
Why should anyone be jealous of MS?
What's the failure rate of XBox360s again?
What's the adoption rate of Vista again?
How many people are buying the ZUNE again?
What's MS profit on OEM WinXP - the only thing which runs well on Atom Netbooks ATM?
I don't see any jealousy. I've used Apple software and Apple is a way better company than MS, IMO. MS embraces DRM - Apple was the first to force RIAA and MPAA to remove DRM from its music store. Apple offers cheap operating systems. Apple offers excellent licensing deals - I can LEGALLY install my copy of Final Cut Studio 2 on a laptop and a desktop machine - the SAME copy, does Adobe or MS allow that, even though Apple's FCS 2 is superior to Adobe Production Suite and is cheaper than it?
The fact is that everything Apple touches turns to gold (iPod, iPhone, MacOSX, ITunes store, etc) while everything MS does turns to s.... (Xbox, Zune, Origami, WinMobile, PlayForSure, Win Vista, MS retail outlets etc)
Look at this:
Report: iPhone grabs 32% of global handset profits
http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=11651
Letters from Microsoft: An Employee Tosses His Zune
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/...rosoft-an-employee-tosses-his-zune/#more-3713
Canalys: iPhone outsold all Windows Mobile phones in Q2 2009
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...old_all_windows_mobile_phones_in_q2_2009.html
Apple’s valuation greater than HP and Dell combined
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/07/28/apples-valuation-greater-than-hp-and-dell-combined/
Even the iPhone 3GS has reached No 1 spot in the most demanding market in the world, Japan.
(And Japanese cell phones are usually superior to our western ones anyway)
( http://techvi.com/news/2009/08/iphone-3gs-most-popular-phone-in-japan-for-july/ )
Why should anyone be jealous of MS?
What's the failure rate of XBox360s again?
What's the adoption rate of Vista again?
How many people are buying the ZUNE again?
What's MS profit on OEM WinXP - the only thing which runs well on Atom Netbooks ATM?
I don't see any jealousy. I've used Apple software and Apple is a way better company than MS, IMO. MS embraces DRM - Apple was the first to force RIAA and MPAA to remove DRM from its music store. Apple offers cheap operating systems. Apple offers excellent licensing deals - I can LEGALLY install my copy of Final Cut Studio 2 on a laptop and a desktop machine - the SAME copy, does Adobe or MS allow that, even though Apple's FCS 2 is superior to Adobe Production Suite and is cheaper than it?
The fact is that everything Apple touches turns to gold (iPod, iPhone, MacOSX, ITunes store, etc) while everything MS does turns to s....
(Xbox, Zune, Origami, WinMobile, PlayForSure, Win Vista, MS retail outlets etc)
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MS plans to use Win 7 to raise Netbook Prices:
http://car.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=11637
http://car.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=11637
No - antitrust violations and leveraging one monopoly to create another are not the LEGAL ways of doing business, neither is bribery, murder (killing off the talent at your competitor) or espionage. However, what MS does with its vapourware is destroy great competitors to be replaced by stagnant MS products which are NEVER as good as the vapourware - Win 95 was not like the hyped up Cairo, WinXP was not as good as it was originally hyped up to be and Vista turned out to be a dud - missing most features that MS vaporware spin department was bragging about before Vista's release.
diabolus
Executive Member
Well if you read endgadget you might have noticed something developing. The perception people have of Apple is -fast- changing.
Apple was for the most part the "underdog" , everyone wanted them to succeed against the big bully that is Microsoft.
Now a few years down the line, Apple is dominating and guess what? They are starting to act exactly like Microsoft..in fact Apple is being much worse now. They STILL function under this veil of secrecy, it takes the US antitrust commision to get info out of them for crying out loud? [This refers to Apple + AT&Ts monopolistic tactics in the Apple Appstore] .
Microsoft in contrast has changed dramatically, they are a MILLION TIMES MORE OPEN. Heck how many people on here has been beta'ing Windows 7? Microsoft actually asks for feedback and want developers on board....totally opposite of what Apple is doing.
Amusing part is, if Microsoft pulled the stunts Apple is pulling NOW, people would be throwing toys and having an outcry...Apple is still the "sweetheart", but people believe this is changing fast . People that think the IE+Netscape stunt Microsoft pulled years ago was "evil", wait for Apple...
As for whether Microsoft will die, not soon..they might not dominate anymore. I don't really understand what the point of such a statement is. My answer? WHO CARES? If someone else comes to the party beating Microsoft, good for them. BUT i sure as hell hope it's not Apple:
Apple is EXPENSIVE
Apple is RESTRICTIVE
Apple owns the HARDWARE & SOFTWARE
Apple SENSORS DEVELOPERS
Do we -really- want a company controlling even MORE than "big bad" Microsoft did?
What exactly does the author wants? At the same time he cleary WANTS Microsoft to die, but yet feel obligated to tell them to be innovative?
You know what? I would be more concerned with Apple dominating the Phone+Mp3 Player + OS + Software market with the horrible corporate governance tactics they are pulling.
For crying out loud, Steve Jobs had a liver transplant and told no one....
---
Ok back to the topic to the article which went totally off on a tangent
If you read my rant above you will realize this exactly the wrong and stupid conclusion to get to. This is what Microsoft DO , they understand that without developers any platform is dead. They do the exact same thing with Visual Studio, they pull you in, market things to you, give you betas, feedbacks, tech-ed days.....they literally throw tools at you.
So the author is clearly so biased and clouded he doesn't even REALIZE how Apple being so exclusive and secretive is the problem here. They freaking denied a dictionary app because it has swear words in it...come on!
If Apple goes down, this will be the reason. Apple thinks they are so "cool" and "exlcusive" developers will just flock the THEM, Microsoft on the other hand is at least on the level where they market to the developer....
Apple was for the most part the "underdog" , everyone wanted them to succeed against the big bully that is Microsoft.
Now a few years down the line, Apple is dominating and guess what? They are starting to act exactly like Microsoft..in fact Apple is being much worse now. They STILL function under this veil of secrecy, it takes the US antitrust commision to get info out of them for crying out loud? [This refers to Apple + AT&Ts monopolistic tactics in the Apple Appstore] .
Microsoft in contrast has changed dramatically, they are a MILLION TIMES MORE OPEN. Heck how many people on here has been beta'ing Windows 7? Microsoft actually asks for feedback and want developers on board....totally opposite of what Apple is doing.
Amusing part is, if Microsoft pulled the stunts Apple is pulling NOW, people would be throwing toys and having an outcry...Apple is still the "sweetheart", but people believe this is changing fast . People that think the IE+Netscape stunt Microsoft pulled years ago was "evil", wait for Apple...
As for whether Microsoft will die, not soon..they might not dominate anymore. I don't really understand what the point of such a statement is. My answer? WHO CARES? If someone else comes to the party beating Microsoft, good for them. BUT i sure as hell hope it's not Apple:
Apple is EXPENSIVE
Apple is RESTRICTIVE
Apple owns the HARDWARE & SOFTWARE
Apple SENSORS DEVELOPERS
Do we -really- want a company controlling even MORE than "big bad" Microsoft did?
What exactly does the author wants? At the same time he cleary WANTS Microsoft to die, but yet feel obligated to tell them to be innovative?
You know what? I would be more concerned with Apple dominating the Phone+Mp3 Player + OS + Software market with the horrible corporate governance tactics they are pulling.
For crying out loud, Steve Jobs had a liver transplant and told no one....
---
Ok back to the topic to the article which went totally off on a tangent
If you read my rant above you will realize this exactly the wrong and stupid conclusion to get to. This is what Microsoft DO , they understand that without developers any platform is dead. They do the exact same thing with Visual Studio, they pull you in, market things to you, give you betas, feedbacks, tech-ed days.....they literally throw tools at you.
So the author is clearly so biased and clouded he doesn't even REALIZE how Apple being so exclusive and secretive is the problem here. They freaking denied a dictionary app because it has swear words in it...come on!
If Apple goes down, this will be the reason. Apple thinks they are so "cool" and "exlcusive" developers will just flock the THEM, Microsoft on the other hand is at least on the level where they market to the developer....
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I am Penguin
Executive Member
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2009
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Thats news! LOL
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Ou grote
Honorary Master
Wish I never heard about Dr Manto's...
The point is diabolus is that people actually want to buy the iPod because it is such a good consumer device. The same goes for the iPhone - that is becoming such a hot seller (despite the overheating issues) - look at the Japanese popularity bearing in mind their domestic phones from Sharp/NEC/Panasonic/SONY are about 2 years ahead of western ones.
On the other hand people HAVE to buy OFFICE because the previous package their company used was OFFICE and interoperability sucks between Office and the few competitors. Where is AmiPro and WordPerfect now, I dunno. People can only buy Windows because MS killed off OS/2 and when it looked like Linux would be the Netbook king they brought back Windows XP.
The iPod can still play MP3s and you can buy MP3s from the Itunes Music store while AAC files can be converted to MP3 or FLAC or anything else. You don't need to use the iPod. The contratual deals between AT&T and Apple were just that - they're AT&T's fault - AT&T wants to keep a % of their profit so they are influencing the sort of apps Apple sells. MS could also develop Apple iPhone apps too but they won't ne.
BTW do you know that MS pushed it's PlayForSure DRM format years ago and then licensed it to Creative and others to make MP3 players which were compatible with online music stores selling music in that DRM format? Well MS suddenly killed that when they relased their ZUNE. PlayForSure was dead and all those vendors and all those people who bought those songs in PlayForSure would no longer be able to listen to them on their Zunes, even though MS said earlier that P4S would continue. Seems like a lame duck ne?
Secondly Apple does not dominate the software market. It only dominates it's own brand the way Coca-Cola dominates Coca-Cola sales and the way Toyota is the no 1 monopoly holder on Toyota branded cars. You cannot compare Apple and MS in any way as Apple Macs are their own product line which they by default DOMINATE unless they sell licenses to build Macs to clone makers (which is something they did ages ago and did not work out very well for them) and then undercut those clone makers. Apple is not doing that.
Apple is dominating the Apple line of products - Mac, MacOSx, iPhone, iPod, AppleTV etc while MS is dominating its own line too - Windows, Office, Windows Server, Xbox, etc BUT in addition MS dominates the Windows platform wordprocessor/spreadsheet/presentation manager market, they dominate the PC operating system market, they dominate the browser market etc. It's also OK to just dominate but what counts is how you got there and what you're doing to prevent competition. Apple is not preventing competition on the iPod doing anything bad - they sell DRM free music - you can play that music as is on your Cowon/Creative/Rio/Zune/cell phone as is, or you can convert it. The iPod also plays MP3s which can be ripped from CD or purchased from Amazon or other vendors which offer DRM free music. Now if Apple forced all iPhone/iPod users to suddenly buy a Mac or else they could not connect their devices to upload music or data - well that would be illegal.
So Ballmer could have had a coronary for all we know - I wouldn't hold it against Ballmer if he didn't share it with us. I gather shareholders could be upset but hey-- comparing a man's personal health issues and how he announces them to the way a company has been run since the 80s seems a bit out of whack.
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diabolus
Executive Member
PeterCH said:
That's not really the point, it basically added to the perception that Apple is being secretive [too secretive] and closed off to consumers and developers alike. No one really knows what Apple is doing and why . There's a perception developing that Apple is having a very defensive and protective agenda that smells a whole lot like monopoly and anti-trust, and people are ignoring it [for now] because they hate MS so much...
PeterCH said:
Oh? And you think Apple is going to "throw open the market of interoperability" ? They DENIED almost the entire range of Google Apps on the IPhone...heloooo ? We're talking Google here, open source, free ...Apple basically just said "oh it will mess with our control of the user experience, DENIED" . Don't you see down the line you're going to HAVE to use Safari because Apple ensure all competition is denied or killed off ? They are clearly protecting their platform from competition, which is all nice and fine, but the moment your platform starts dominating it's no different than Microsoft and Windows...think about it.
PeterCH said:
Ok, so what is this debate about then? Why are we then concerned what the heck MS does with the Zune ? Apple is dominating the Media Player market, yet people feel the need to write biographies on Microsoft's evil past when they bring out a new Zune ? I don't think Microsoft is trying to "take over" , they're just merely jumping on the bandwagon and possibly exposing a few monopolistic tactics Apple is pulling based on having the entire market...
I bet you, Microsoft will be the first to open up their device to integrate with different software / devices ..NOT APPLE. Apple recently "updated" their Itunes software so you can't sync it with the new Palm Pre [competes with the iphone] . So they're even forcing you to have Apple hardware to use the software. This incidentally is no different than what Microsoft did and was attacked,fined,criticized..court case after another...yet Apple is still all nice and saintly.
Apple currently runs probably the largest online music store, but they force you to use their software AND their hardware to use the store...if that is not making you edgy then you're clearly way too anti-Microsoft to notice the brick coming from behind.
PeterCH said:
Read my previous paragraph.
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Apple fanboi here:
1. Apple needs to change their obsessive secrecy and communicate with their customers, (they also need to get rid of arms dealers who act as their rep's in SA, Core).
2. Apple needs to make their app store approval's more transparent.
3. They need to lower prices just a tad so that more ppl can access their products.
4. Steve Jobs needs to retire as CEO very soon and become the special design consultant to Apple.
5. Apple needs to continue making products that make kitteh's purr with love.
As for MS,
1. The majority of the world needs to continue giving them money for (inferior) products so that B. Gates can contribute to his humanitarian foundation cause S. Jobs sure as hell dont care about poor ppl.
1. Apple needs to change their obsessive secrecy and communicate with their customers, (they also need to get rid of arms dealers who act as their rep's in SA, Core).
2. Apple needs to make their app store approval's more transparent.
3. They need to lower prices just a tad so that more ppl can access their products.
4. Steve Jobs needs to retire as CEO very soon and become the special design consultant to Apple.
5. Apple needs to continue making products that make kitteh's purr with love.
As for MS,
1. The majority of the world needs to continue giving them money for (inferior) products so that B. Gates can contribute to his humanitarian foundation cause S. Jobs sure as hell dont care about poor ppl.
d0b33
Honorary Master
Apple are receiving a lot of angry taunts on the net, mostly people who want to switch and don't like the fact that you are only allowed to run OSX on a Mac and that Macs are expensive, I use a mac so I understand that OSX is only made for macs, if you want a solid OS like OSX get Linux.
But I agree with the OP, Microsoft is a pile of turd that stinks.
But I agree with the OP, Microsoft is a pile of turd that stinks.
Ou grote
Honorary Master
The secrecy is needed because their products seem to get copied - all of them.
They have been lowering prices over the last few years, we don't see it here though.
Steve Jobs is probably the main reason for their success, he'll be around.
diabolus
Executive Member
Re Anti trust issue's.
Who Controls the Sony Ps3 online market place? A: Sony
Who Controls the MS Xbox online market place? A: MS
Who Controls the Nintendo Wii online market place? A: Nintendo
Who Controls the iPhone App online market place? A: Apple
Who Controls the Sony Ps3 online market place? A: Sony
Who Controls the MS Xbox online market place? A: MS
Who Controls the Nintendo Wii online market place? A: Nintendo
Who Controls the iPhone App online market place? A: Apple
diabolus
Executive Member
The part you're missing is what they're selling. This is not only about the IPhone Store, but the MUSIC Store. Neither Nintendo/Sony/MS have a store making as much money as Apple.
Yes, one can argue the Xbox Live is problematic, but the content is primarily Xbox content, there's no point in buying it -without- an Xbox. Now, buying MP3s for another device DOES raise a few anti-trust questions.
It's like Amazon saying you can only buy books from them if you have a Kindle, while they have the largest market in book sales. A small company can do that as they are NOT a monopoly , but a company that has the most market share to enforce further anti-competitive practices i.e. forcing you to have an Ipod, is basically bending anti-trust laws.
This is exactly what these anti-trust laws are for, NOT for the small company trying to get market share, but for the market "owners" to prevent another Windows + Office lock-in .
'Cept for the fact that you can buy from mp3' Amazon for (sometimes) cheaper than from the iTunes store. Pure non drm mp3's.
IMHO there are no anti trusts issue's when it comes to Apple selling music, if the record company's are so pissed off with Apple having the biggest market share then the solution would be to stop providing Apple with their music catalog. Let the market sort it out.
AFAIK Wall-mart/Amazon/Apple are the biggest seller's of music in the states.
IMHO there are no anti trusts issue's when it comes to Apple selling music, if the record company's are so pissed off with Apple having the biggest market share then the solution would be to stop providing Apple with their music catalog. Let the market sort it out.
AFAIK Wall-mart/Amazon/Apple are the biggest seller's of music in the states.
Microsoft has to have people test 7 because Vista was such a flop. They couldn't afford to have 2 consecutive operating systems flop, as they are fast loosing market share to both OS X and Linux.
d0b33
Honorary Master
Vista beta and RC was also free to test, it's shareware, nothing "open" about it, you are forced to pay for it when the trial period ends.