semiautomatix
Honorary Master
Based on the constitution. Which the ANC can change if they get 2/3 majority. As such, yes, the can turn South Africa into a one party state; as per the new constitution. It is extreme, but completely possible.
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Why i wouldn't vote DA
- Thread starter The_Pumpkin_King
- Start date
Based on the constitution. Which the ANC can change if they get 2/3 majority. As such, yes, the can turn South Africa into a one party state; as per the new constitution. It is extreme, but completely possible.
AirWolf
Honorary Master
Yes, I know they already have the two thirds majority and look at what they have done with it:
- Brought about floor crossing - so if they don't get a two-thirds majority at the poll, they can just buy one at floor crossing time.
- Remove a president.
- Dissolved the scorpions.
- Major decisions are no longer thrashed out at parliament, but at ANC imbizos and the like.
The question you have to ask yourself is what has the ANC done for you over the last 15 years. Are you better of now then you were in 1994?
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So why don't they rather explain to me how they plan on putting this into action. I don't really give a continental about Zuma. Tell me Zille what you are going to do for me? Let's keep our eye on the ball here shall we. After all that's what politics is all about.
Now if this is true,why in the hell don't they use,actually abuse it in their campaign.Many other parties would.
Why don't they shove in my face every chance they got.
chiskop
Executive Member
No, I haven't forgotten. And I'm not saying that the DA has nothing. But their action nationally and in elections particularly are very much a reaction to the ANC's. I'll even admit that they've got a little better since the Tony Leon days.
Yeah, they've done very well in some areas, and I wish that they'd concentrate on that in their campaign, rather than on their knee-jerk responses to the ANC.
Because it's far easier to sit pointing fingers at Zuma the villian all the time.
You should read up on the context of a party winning by a two-thirds majority. A party that has two-thirds majority can change the constitution, and that means they can make this country an official one party state by banning all other political parties IF THEY WANT TO. So far the ANC haven't totally abused it's two-thirds majority, but that doesn't mean they never will in the near future. It might sound ridiculous when I say the ANC will ban other political parties if the want to in lets say 5 years from now. Would it have been ridiculous if someone predicted in 1995 for example that Mugabe would take farms from white people and let his country starve to death from hunger, it was unimaginable in 1995 that Mugabe would do such a thing, but guess what, he did it from the year 2000.
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
Oh, Zille has expanded on much of her policies in interviews and party press releases. Unfortunately you never thought to query the party in this regard and complain when you don't hear it through the main stream media. Ignorance is no defence.
Besides these policies are largely backed up by what the DA has already done.
chiskop
Executive Member
Floor-crossing was done with the co-operation of all the major parties at the time. (And before the ANC had a two-thirds majority, IIRC)
None of the other options required a two-thirds majority.
Changing their own political head (although it affects the rest of the country) does not require the rest of the country's approval. Similar how the DA changed it's head from Tony Leon to Helen Zille - did they have to ask the other parties whether it was okay by them?
The dissolution of the Scorpions required a simple majority, rather than a two-thirds majority.
Your examples are flawed. There are other things that they've done that did require a two-thirds majority, such as redrawing the borders around Khutsong.
And just to be clear again: I will not be voting for the ANC, and I think that two-thirds is too much power for any party. I just think we should drop the scare-mongering, and keep our arguments factual.
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Tim, I have... let's say 50 pretty good friends that I see fairly frequently. Of all races and across a decent age range. Let's add about 50 family members that I also see fairly often. All the same race, but much more varied in terms of age.
I have about 8 friends who actually are informed and will make the effort to find out more. Probably about 7 family members who would do that.
In that group of 100 people, only 15 will make the effort to research the different parties' policies and to vote based on that. The rest will go with ads and popular opinion.
Keeping in mind that a lot of people today also want their information in bite-sized chunks, you need an effective ad campaign to target the majority of the people who will vote. The few that will go and research the policies are not the target audience here.
Most people aren't happy with the DA's approach to things as they see it as being reactionary to the ANC. And that's the mistake that they've made with their campaign.
I believe the DA's campaign is the most realistitc in that they don't spend too much time on petty promises, because they know the ANC will win no matter what. Thus they're rather trying to get people to see that the it's a more realistic goal to stop the ANC from getting a two thirds majority.
R13...
Honorary Master
Floor-crossing was done with the co-operation of all the major parties at the time.
None of the other options required a two-thirds majority.
Changing their own political head (although it effects the rest of the country) does not require the rest of the country's approval. Similar how the DA changed it's head from Tony Leon to Helen Zille - did they have to ask the other parties whether it was okay by them?
The dissolution of the Scorpions required a simple majority, rather than a two-thirds majority.
Your examples are flawed. There are other things that they've done that did require a two-thirds majority, such as redrawing the borders around Khutsong.
And just to be clear again: I will not be voting for the ANC, and I think that two-thirds is too much power for any party. I just think we should drop the scare-mongering, and keep our arguments factual.
Everyone goes completely blind when you say sensible things like that.
I must be missing something then. Where are these interviews and press releases?
If a party is going to be successful in securing votes: main stream media should be your strongest platform since that is the platform that reaches the most voters. Their inability to do this is now my fault?
If a party is going to be successful in securing votes: main stream media should be your strongest platform since that is the platform that reaches the most voters. Their inability to do this is now my fault?
R13...
Honorary Master
That unfortunately is not going to win them the black vote which they desperately need to gain any sort of credibility.
I for one am not voting the ANC, but am still undecided because I realise COPE is a waste of vote!
Agreed. I read and watch a lot of news. I haven't seen much along those lines either.
SteveO
Expert Member
firstly, if someone has said this already.....my apologies for reiterating it.
Voting for a governing party is not only a benefit for the party that you vote for. Its upto every person to realise that their decisions effect all in SA and that it really does matter who we vote for. In this regard i find that your rant about the DA's campaign and why you wont vote extremely dissapointing. Yes the campaign is pretty useless,but its up to you and everyone else as a voting member of the public to go out and make an effort to find out about the partys' election manifestos in order to make a concerted and educated effort in voting for the party that you feel could make SA work.
http://www.news24.com/News24/Elections/Opinion_And_Analysis/0,,2-2478-2481_2483050,00.html
go and check out the policy briefs on News24 and then come back to me and tell me why you still wont vote for DA...or maybe see it fit to vote for the ANC or IFP or ACDP.....
The_Pumpkin_King
Jedi Master
cape town was always a world class city, so is durban, jhb, pe did you forget they exist??
i have read the DA policys, stop bringing that up ffs! you are not the only person who has read it!
i'm going on their advertising, that 70? percent of the voters will be going on
semiautomatix
Honorary Master
They do, at every election rally I've been to. Or are you just garnering your facts from what the media deigns worthy of telling you?
chiskop
Executive Member
ROFL. We have to explain our choice not to vote DA to you?
I'll vote for my choice, if that's alright. And I'd prefer all the parties to tell me why voting for them is a good idea, rather than telling me why I shouldn't be voting for the other guys.*
*This applies equally to the DA's "Stop Zuma" campaign, and the ANC's Stop Cope campaign. Or anyone else that chooses to campaign like that.
Oh my word timgaul! You are completely missing the point of this thread. Majority of voters rely on main stream media when it comes to voting. You can call that ignorant or ill-informed. Whatever you want to call it. Point is. DA have ineffectively used this platform and it will hurt them come 22nd April.