24/7 downloading

[SSung]

The problem again is that MWEB priced their "4meg" accounts horribly incorrectly. It's not even double the price of the 512 package yet 8 times faster.

MWEB know that people like to brag: "I've got 4meg uncapped interweb!" -even though they probably don't know what it really means; and now they're unhappy about people wanting to make fair use of their connection.

I'm on 512k, which costs 66% of the 4mb yet only delivers 12.5% of the speed/data. I was hoping (until recently at least) that we'd get a free linespeed upgrade to 1 or 2mb sometime this year, but that looks very unlikely now (or ever).

The 4mb service apparently doesn't perform very well either, and seems to make you more of a target for MWEB.

They should rename the current package to "uncapped lite" and release a real uncapped package at a higher price. Something that isn't based on sat3 and cost R1999p/m.

MWEB want all the benefits of a hyped-up 'uncapped' service without actually delivering. It might have helped in the beginning, but will probably only cause confusion at this time.

 

[Alestorm]

MWEB want all the benefits of a hyped-up 'uncapped' service without actually delivering. It might have helped in the beginning, but will probably only cause confusion at this time.

To be honest, cutting off a few people that bypassed shaping or download huge amounts every month is hardly not delivering. Besides that it really is an uncapped shaped account at the moment, and obviously it will remain that for the vast majority of their users who no longer have to worry about a cap and at a decent price. Those who want uncapped as in "download all the time on 4mb" might have to look at MWeb's other account but it doesn't really discredit their service all that much.

I agree that the internet addict is priced badly though, it should be around R1000 and then the few people who need that service can move over to it.

 

[racer]

I agree that the internet addict is priced badly though, it should be around R1000 and then the few people who need that service can move over to it.

the internet addict is priced according to Mweb's cost. if you really need that amount of data every month, you gotta pay for it, economics 101.

unfortunately Mweb got it wrong with the pricing on the 4096 consumer accounts. they should have either priced it correctly, or offered high cap account on 4m lines. but there's no way (economically) they can let 4m users download all day every day without losing money.

 

[racer]

Why do you have to refer to people as 'jerks'? Do you enjoy throwing anonymous insults at people?

i'll call them jerks if i want, free speech and all that.... lemme ask you something - if me and you went out for dinner at a buffet, and a group of peoplr walked in and dished up 30 plates of food each and left us with friggin gravy, would you not call them jerks? Yes, the restaurant does say "all you can eat" but we hardly expect that to be taken literally do we?

Its no different with these uncapped accounts. The ISPs were open enough to ask ppl not to download 24x7 and not to bypass shaping, and to just use them like normal ppl would.

So dear Peter, any JERk who insists on eating all my feken food, is a JERK.

Perhaps this forum is NOT FOR YOU and you should hang out on the ISPs forums and kiss a-- there? Honestly I just don't understand your attitude.

Cry me a river...

 

[milomak]

Yes, the restaurant does say "all you can eat" but we hardly expect that to be taken literally do we?.

why not be angry at the restuarant? the consumer did no more than do what the product offered. just because you feel you that one and a half plates is good enough for you gives you no right to be angry at someone who takes the service provider up on the promises they have made. promises made via the way the advertise the product.

no the jerks here are the service provider.

 

[Tharaxis]

i'll call them jerks if i want, free speech and all that.... lemme ask you something - if me and you went out for dinner at a buffet, and a group of peoplr walked in and dished up 30 plates of food each and left us with friggin gravy, would you not call them jerks? Yes, the restaurant does say "all you can eat" but we hardly expect that to be taken literally do we?

An "all you can eat" buffet is a pretty good analogy for the following reasons:

1) There is a physical constraint in place to prevent rampant abuse, namely a limit on how much you could physically eat without serious health repercussions. MOST people will eat 1-1.5 meals despite it being an all you can eat buffet, purely because they feel full, this is often fully covered by the cost of the buffet. In the case of the restaurant, how big my mouth is irrelevant, because after 2 burgers I'm stuffed.

2) These deals are generally priced higher than what it would cost you for a single meal, this is so the restaurant can cover the average cost, and "heavy eaters" can feel they're getting a good deal.

3) These deals come (SHOCK!) with a set of terms and conditions to prevent abuse of the system which could end up putting the restaurant at risk.

4) Additionally, most restaurants will have an undefined cutoff after which they will no longer serve any further food, this is again to prevent putting the restaurant at risk.

One of the most common terms is that you can't share your food, otherwise you would get a family of 5 getting a R99 buffet or something and eating 5 people's worth of food. If you're found to be sharing, you may either be asked to pay full price for the meal, or alternatively will be asked to leave, and may be prevented from going to that restaurant in the future.

Now I'm sure you'll find the odd offensive pig who decides they want to eat 10 plates of food or something and they make a huge stink when the restaurant refuses their business after plate 3, but the fact is that a REASONABLE expectation on the part of the restaurant is that you're not going to eat 10 plates of food, but instead have a good meal (maybe a bit more than you would normally eat) and go home.

 

[Tharaxis]

why not be angry at the restuarant? the consumer did no more than do what the product offered. just because you feel you that one and a half plates is good enough for you gives you no right to be angry at someone who takes the service provider up on the promises they have made. promises made via the way the advertise the product.

no the jerks here are the service provider.

Clearly your mom never taught you not to be selfish. Being a glutton and a pig at the expense of others is pretty damn disgusting. Now, you have every right to be a disgusting pig if that's what you want to be, but likewise M-Web then has the right to say "no thanks" to your disgusting piggery and request you take your business elsewhere.

 

[SSung]

An "all you can eat" buffet is a pretty good analogy for the following reasons:

1) There is a physical constraint in place to prevent rampant abuse, namely a limit on how much you could physically eat without serious health repercussions. MOST people will eat 1-1.5 meals despite it being an all you can eat buffet, purely because they feel full, this is often fully covered by the cost of the buffet. In the case of the restaurant, how big my mouth is irrelevant, because after 2 burgers I'm stuffed.

2) These deals are generally priced higher than what it would cost you for a single meal, this is so the restaurant can cover the average cost, and "heavy eaters" can feel they're getting a good deal.

3) These deals come (SHOCK!) with a set of terms and conditions to prevent abuse of the system which could end up putting the restaurant at risk.

4) Additionally, most restaurants will have an undefined cutoff after which they will no longer serve any further food, this is again to prevent putting the restaurant at risk.

One of the most common terms is that you can't share your food, otherwise you would get a family of 5 getting a R99 buffet or something and eating 5 people's worth of food. If you're found to be sharing, you may either be asked to pay full price for the meal, or alternatively will be asked to leave, and may be prevented from going to that restaurant in the future.

Now I'm sure you'll find the odd offensive pig who decides they want to eat 10 plates of food or something and they make a huge stink when the restaurant refuses their business after plate 3, but the fact is that a REASONABLE expectation on the part of the restaurant is that you're not going to eat 10 plates of food, but instead have a good meal (maybe a bit more than you would normally eat) and go home.

Analogy fail.

 

[Tharaxis]

Analogy fail.

Care to elaborate? Or does it fail purely because it's a stance contrary to your own? In which case I can only assume you're stupid, blind, or both.

 

[Keeper]

MWeb Uncapped - You can download AS MUCH AS YOU WANT!!

......just not all day, okay?

But, you can download as much as you want!

 

[I am Penguin]

MWeb Uncapped - You can download AS MUCH AS YOU WANT!!

......just not all day, okay?

But, you can download as much as you want!

False advertising and CEO Brainf@rts if you ask me!

 

[SSung]

Care to elaborate? Or does it fail purely because it's a stance contrary to your own? In which case I can only assume you're stupid, blind, or both.

The analogy fails because of lack of correlation, not your lack of imagination.

1. "There is a physical constraint in place to prevent rampant abuse..." What is this referring to? Linespeed? Yes, we all accept that our maximum theoretical download is limited by our linespeed. And people hosting buffets are not concerned with your health; they want to make money.

2. Dunno what you're trying to get at here. Some single meals are cheaper than a buffet, some aren't. So what? Some MWEB users could probably save a lot by going back to a cheap capped account, but then they would be disappointed on the odd occasion that they viewed a few too many youtube vids and exceeded their cap.

3. What are the relevant T&Cs? And how to the relate to broadband internet? The 'rule' I was aware of when eating a buffet was not to waste any food or make a mess.

4. Ahhh...so this must be MWEB's secret cap/threshold. Tell us more...

One of the most common terms is that you can't share your food, otherwise you would get a family of 5 getting a R99 buffet or something and eating 5 people's worth of food. If you're found to be sharing, you may either be asked to pay full price for the meal, or alternatively will be asked to leave, and may be prevented from going to that restaurant in the future.

No brainer. Don't really see how it relates?

Now I'm sure you'll find the odd offensive pig who decides they want to eat 10 plates of food or something and they make a huge stink when the restaurant refuses their business after plate 3, but the fact is that a REASONABLE expectation on the part of the restaurant is that you're not going to eat 10 plates of food, but instead have a good meal (maybe a bit more than you would normally eat) and go home.

So who are these "offensive pigs" in your analogy? People why cheat the shaping? People who exceed the unknown cap? Illegal immigrants?


Really, just give up on the analogies already.

 

[Basjohn]

why not be angry at the restuarant? the consumer did no more than do what the product offered. just because you feel you that one and a half plates is good enough for you gives you no right to be angry at someone who takes the service provider up on the promises they have made. promises made via the way the advertise the product.

no the jerks here are the service provider.

100 imaginary naked unicorn points for getting it right again and again in this thread.

The problem isn't contention ratios, costs, value for money, ability to provide or anything like that. There isn't a need for everyone to pointlessly complicate things with discussions about those factors. The only point is that people aren't getting what is advertised and it seems some people are even daring to accept this redefinition of "uncapped" but butt BUTTOCKS the fact remains that if you say you can eat all you want then you damn well better provide that.

If costs disallow this then simply do not sell such a product, it really is that easy.

 

[milomak]

Clearly your mom never taught you not to be selfish. Being a glutton and a pig at the expense of others is pretty damn disgusting. Now, you have every right to be a disgusting pig if that's what you want to be, but likewise M-Web then has the right to say "no thanks" to your disgusting piggery and request you take your business elsewhere.

in this analogy, you make the fatal flaw of assuming that what you are capable of eating should be the norm for other people. some people can naturally eat alot while not being gluttons. if the restuarant offeres, all you can eat; has budgeted that people will eat 1.5 plates; and then complains that people are on average eating 2.5; they have erred in their product offering. not the customers who have taken them up on their offer.

 

[PeterCH]

i'll call them jerks if i want, free speech and all that.... lemme ask you something - if me and you went out for dinner at a buffet, and a group of peoplr walked in and dished up 30 plates of food each and left us with friggin gravy, would you not call them jerks? Yes, the restaurant does say "all you can eat" but we hardly expect that to be taken literally do we?

Since the 'eat all you can' is enticing users to visit those premises consciously and subsconsciously I think you should be fair and put your money where your mouth is. That's why we want clarity. We want it in bold and to say - eat as much as you want but not more than 5 plates. Most people will genuinely feel ill after 3 plates of food. It's insulting to use bait and switch to suck people in and then say "Ah, but you can't do this...and this....and this... but it's still eat as much as you want." Your want just has to become less. Now if MWEB were happy with email warnings for abusive usage for a reasonable number of attempts it wouldn't be so bad, but terminating ppls' accounts outright the first time around when you brag on your site "use as much as you want"?

Its no different with these uncapped accounts. The ISPs were open enough to ask ppl not to download 24x7 and not to bypass shaping, and to just use them like normal ppl would.

It seems heavy usage is also being penalised, even with shaping (and much stuff is not shaped anyway by default).

So dear Peter, any JERk who insists on eating all my feken food, is a JERK.

So bait and switch is OK?

Cry me a river...

At least you're being civil about it.

 

[I am Penguin]

why not be angry at the restuarant? the consumer did no more than do what the product offered. just because you feel you that one and a half plates is good enough for you gives you no right to be angry at someone who takes the service provider up on the promises they have made. promises made via the way the advertise the product.

no the jerks here are the service provider.

You nailed it right on the head there! I agree 1000%+

 

[Osiris85]

How about they just give us what was advertised or change their advertising to say what is\is not allowed?

I'll explain my "all you can eat" analogy:

I frequent a sushi restaurant with a friend that has R99 all you can eat from mon-sat. Our current record is polishing 98 pieces of sushi. We pay R99 each and scoffed down over R700 worth of sushi.

Yet, the owner says nothing and frankly we are quite on good terms with him and he is always pleased to see us

The first time I went there, I was dumbfounded and asked him "How do you guys make a profit on this?".

He blatantly said "We love sushi and want to share with people who has the same interests as us. The pieces you dont finish cost you R5 a piece, but the fact of the matter is we advertise eat as much as you want, and that is the service we deliver. How do we make money? By seeing repeated business from our favourite clients like you "

Moral of the story. If you advertise it, deliver it.
Mweb says UNLIMITED = I can use as much data as I want, until I am full
Mweb says ALL THE TIME = I can use my internet connection 24 hours a day
Mweb says UNLIMITED and ALL THE TIME together = I can use my connection 24 hours a day and pull as much data as I want.

Provided, I do agree with the bypassing of shaping being against the rules. Why? Because Mweb stated that it is in the T&C's.

 

[SabreWolfy]

Most "all you can eat" buffets don't allow "doggie bags" in addition to prohibiting sharing. Like any product or service, it comes with T&C. What if I decide to interpret the advert for "all you can eat" to mean "all I can eat for that whole day" or whatever -- then I want a doggie bag to take the rest so that I can continue eating elsewhere -- they SAID all I can eat and I can eat more later so I want to take more with me. Obviously not.

For those who have a problem with the analogy -- realize that it is in analogy -- it is NOT exactly the same, but it is comparable or similar in many ways. The only thing exactly like shaped uncapped ADSL is shaped uncapped ADSL.

 

[SabreWolfy]

How about they just give us what was advertised or change their advertising to say what is\is not allowed?

I'll explain my "all you can eat" analogy:

I frequent a sushi restaurant with a friend that has R99 all you can eat from mon-sat. Our current record is polishing 98 pieces of sushi. We pay R99 each and scoffed down over R700 worth of sushi.

Yet, the owner says nothing and frankly we are quite on good terms with him and he is always pleased to see us

The first time I went there, I was dumbfounded and asked him "How do you guys make a profit on this?".

He blatantly said "We love sushi and want to share with people who has the same interests as us. The pieces you dont finish cost you R5 a piece, but the fact of the matter is we advertise eat as much as you want, and that is the service we deliver. How do we make money? By seeing repeated business from our favourite clients like you "

Moral of the story. If you advertise it, deliver it.
Mweb says UNLIMITED = I can use as much data as I want, until I am full
Mweb says ALL THE TIME = I can use my internet connection 24 hours a day
Mweb says UNLIMITED and ALL THE TIME together = I can use my connection 24 hours a day and pull as much data as I want.

Provided, I do agree with the bypassing of shaping being against the rules. Why? Because Mweb stated that it is in the T&C's.

Blah blah. Uncapped. Use as much as you want. Terms and Conditions Apply.. They are delivering exactly what they advertized if don't contravene the T&C.

Why are so many people unable or unwilling to understand this.

 

[SSung]

Provided, I do agree with the bypassing of shaping being against the rules. Why? Because Mweb stated that it is in the T&C's.

There's noting explicit in the T&Cs regarding "the bypassing of shaping". It just states that its a shaped service; http, email prioritised etc. You could try to link "the bypassing of shaping" to the "create an unusually large burden on our network" bit, but it's all very tenuous.

Most "all you can eat" buffets don't allow "doggie bags" in addition to prohibiting sharing.

What is analogous to "doggie bags" and "sharing" wrt MWEB's broadband service? Are people now stealing hdds from you? Or hijacking your wi-fi?

Like any product or service, it comes with T&C. What if I decide to interpret the advert for "all you can eat" to mean "all I can eat for that whole day" or whatever -- then I want a doggie bag to take the rest so that I can continue eating elsewhere -- they SAID all I can eat and I can eat more later so I want to take more with me. Obviously not.

The rules regarding all-u-can-eat buffets are widely known. It's always on a per sitting basis and limited until closing time, with no doggie bags. There is no confusion about these points and this is partly why the analogy fails.

For those who have a problem with the analogy -- realize that it is in analogy -- it is NOT exactly the same, but it is comparable or similar in many ways. The only thing exactly like shaped uncapped ADSL is shaped uncapped ADSL.

It's just that it's all in your head. You've been proven wrong in the past, so why should anyone believe you now?

Blah blah. Uncapped. Use as much as you want. Terms and Conditions Apply.. They are delivering exactly what they advertized if don't contravene the T&C.

Why are so many people unable or unwilling to understand this.

A plain reading of the T&Cs contradicts the service as advertised; the product was therefore falsely advertised and the relevant T&Cs are thus rendered toothless.