Shayd
Expert Member
You know I just double checked their website and unlike many other companies, the "T&C's apply" is VERY prominently shown. There is no excuse for ignoring it.
-
Join the MyBroadband community
South Africa’s biggest forum. Discuss, discover, and connect with thousands of members.
-
Question of the Day: Will you be subscribing to the new Disney+ R49 streaming package?
24/7 downloading
- Thread starter milomak
- Start date
acidrain
Executive Member
"bypassing" isn't mentioned in the T&Cs, let alone clearly defined -it was just something an MWEB rep here seemed to invent on the spur of the moment. At this point it all gets very technical and somebody needs to decide whether, for example, using a seedbox is "bypassing" the shaping. Too much to go into right now, but the fact is that it's far from a done deal as far as I'm concerned.
Shayd
Expert Member
How about this:
12.12 If the ADSL Service is used in a way that we, in our sole discretion, believe violates this Acceptable Use Policy or any of our rules or limitations, we may take any responsive actions we deem appropriate. Such actions may include without limitation, temporary or permanent removal of content, cancellation of newsgroup posts, filtering of Internet transmissions, and/or the immediate limitation, restriction, suspension or termination of all or any portion of the ADSL Services or your account.
In a nutshell, this is our company and our product if you don't like what we sell, Tough. And if we think you are abusing, Tough.
As a business owner myself I think this is fair. If I am not providing a product you want or agree to, feel free to go somewhere else.
I said explicit, not universal.
No problem. Now please refund me all my subscription fees you took for falsely advertised product.
See, now everyone's happy?
acidrain
Executive Member
I don't think the problem lies in the fact that "bypassing" is not mentioned, because imo the above quote from their T&C's would be pretty hard to fight as bypassing will be seen as a violation of their shaping limitation, but more the definition of what is considered bypassing.
I don't see seedbox as bypassing as you are downloading from a server via port 80 and not using software to bypass the actual protocol intended. Although they might use it as an excuse if you dl like 500GB+/pm regularly which in all fairness is acceptable.
If someone wants to disagree with the fact that sacking a user for dl'n 500GB+/pm is fair and quoting "it's all i can eat", then be my guest and tell us what you downloaded, that used so much data without mentioning any form of pirate material since THAT is clearly stated in the T&C's.
It's more about how much the people have downloaded than how they are downloading it. For example i run a vnc server on my machine which i just found out is against their t&c's yet I havn't got any calls or letters and thats probably because im using the network in a sensible way
That's just how i see it.
I don't see seedbox as bypassing as you are downloading from a server via port 80 and not using software to bypass the actual protocol intended. Although they might use it as an excuse if you dl like 500GB+/pm regularly which in all fairness is acceptable.
If someone wants to disagree with the fact that sacking a user for dl'n 500GB+/pm is fair and quoting "it's all i can eat", then be my guest and tell us what you downloaded, that used so much data without mentioning any form of pirate material since THAT is clearly stated in the T&C's.
It's more about how much the people have downloaded than how they are downloading it. For example i run a vnc server on my machine which i just found out is against their t&c's yet I havn't got any calls or letters and thats probably because im using the network in a sensible way
That's just how i see it.
Last edited:
As a business owner you are biased. We have an objection with the way MWEB handles 'abusers' and the way MWEB identifies 'abusers'. MWEB's advertising and messaging from the CEO as well as previous posts here led us to believe that MWEB would not arbitrarily ban people. This however is happening. It's also based on vague terms. So for example, bypassing of shaping could be using a pay site to get your files from or it could be using a lesser known one click host. I think we want to know the rules so that we know we are in the clear and the chilling effect that the bans have cast will dissipate. There are issues which are not clear, for example there are hints that total use (without bypassing anything) may result in bans.
You can say 'go somewhere else' but that is also a hassle, for one some of us have ISP accounts since 1998 and we also have MWEB line rental. So it would be a big mission to change over. Also that is more or less a last resort - MWEB's service is decent otherwise, but these recent bans are pretty below the belt.
This is too vague. They should say if you download more than x GB while secured we will consider it abusive. This allows people to use a VPN for privacy, but then we also know what the limits are. They should explicitly state what - i.e. define what abuse is.
So if you're getting files from "fileserv" which MWEB may not shape they will not hit you with the ban hammer unless they update their T&C and notify everyone explicitly of what these abuse issues are. ALternatively, MWEB should not be so heavy handed when 'banning' ppl.
acidrain
Executive Member
I agree but lawyers are known to be able to play with words. It might be vague to us, but for someone who knows the in's and out's of the law it might be totally different.
It would be nice to be have a page that explicity states what is deemed abusive but i fear that will never surface. AFAIK the users who have been banned have done some serious amounts of downloading... regardless of whether it's all you can eat or not.. it's impossible to dl 500gb's a month of legal content ( for a "home" user ) and even for illegal content that's a crazy amount unless it's like 50GB blu-ray movies
So you're gonna call a lawyer if they ban you for downloading files their shaper did not shape properly? Besides this falls more under technical definitions. What does bypassing mean? You know tech definitions not legalese. I'm sure a lawyer could spin a dl from a private ftp site as bypassing shaping - after all you could have taken the regular route and used bittorrent which they shape (never mind that the content is not even available on torrent and may be entirely legal).
What is serious? I'd like an objective definition (ie quanitified) either in terms of % utilisation or in terms of GBs (or maybe MBs!!).
acidrain
Executive Member
Nope, lawyer will cost me more money than the trouble's actually worth. If they ban someone and he/she wants to go to a lawyer, they should know without a doubt that said violation is not in the t&c... if they wanna have a run with a t&c that's vague then it's their risk to take, personally i wouldn't.
Everything is vague with them and probably any other isp i.e. it was said 24/7 downloading will get you banned, but then what about 23/7 dl'n since that wasn't stated. All you can do is control your usage, cancel and move on or risk being banned. Sad but true
Well looking at my last month usage i would think serious is about 400+ since i haven't received a call but don't take my word for it. We will never find out from them a quantified amount, so one can only assume it's above their own ( those who weren't banned ) current usage
AthenianOwl
Executive Member
- Joined
- Feb 9, 2009
- Messages
- 8,897
- Reaction score
- 4
Seriously??? 
If I download something HUUUUUUGGGGGGEEEE like 10gb from a site that is not shaped by MWeb then I'm in contravention of the T&C, is it true? That's purely BS
If I download something HUUUUUUGGGGGGEEEE like 10gb from a site that is not shaped by MWeb then I'm in contravention of the T&C, is it true? That's purely BS Seriously???
That is BS, as in not true. Perhaps if you used this source to download all month at full speed then it would be a problem.
Seriously???
The fact is that you don't know. Their T&C are pretty vague and while people say "BS" they don't want to tell us outright because they prefer to keep people doubting and hesitant to use this 'uncapped' account too much.
If Privacy VPN can by called bypassing shaping than downloading from a non- shaped source material found on shaped sources is also bypassing AUP. I mean you could tell your buddy in America with an uncapped connection to load everything on a $5.99 FTP account and that would also be bypassing. The slope is slippery. And with sudden death bans, you just don't get a second chance with these guys.
Exactly, so your earlier point does not make sense.
acidrain
Executive Member
Makes perfect sense to me. You obviously aren't getting my point but w/e. Argue that the T&C's are vague or whatever til the cows come home but try go to court and i'm sure one will find out it really isn't.
SabreWolfy
Expert Member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2009
- Messages
- 2,229
- Reaction score
- 1
Seriously???
I'm not sure how many times this needs to be repeated: If you CONSTANTLY download over an unshaped protocol at MAXIMUM LINE SPEED ALL DAY, EVERY DAY 24/7 for an EXTENDED period of time (who knows? one month? more?) you risk being in contravention of the T&C. In this sense, 10GB is nothing. 100GB (to pull a figure at random) on a 4mbps is also probably nothing in this sense. Just don't max out the line 24/7 for the whole month. ADSL is a shared service, so if you max out at 4mbps 24/7 for the month, remember that up to 50 (?) other users are on your same line. Don't bother bleating about how unfair this is -- this is how ADSL works. The contention ratio is lower for business users.
Last edited:
Odd. Bowsing around Aussie and NZ ISP sites (Since they share our dillema in being geographically reliant on undersea cables to provide a useable internet experience) most of them have equally vague T&C's if not more so (Telstra simply states "We will cut you off for irregular or excessive useage") I actually struggled to find anything resembling an uncapped offering - even the ones that say "unlimited" useage quite ofter had small print stating that you will be throttled (not shaped) to 64k speeds once you hit a specific amount.
Granted, thier capped offerings tended towards higher caps (5 and 20GB caps seem the most common), better speeds (ADSL2+) and a bit cheaper (R300 a month all inclusive on average packages), but it's still a long way from the all-you-can-eat, virtually for free, 100Mbps that a lot of people seem to to tout as being normal in the rest of the world and that they believe we should be emulating. Heck, if you look at Speedtest results the average speed in all but a few countries is still in the single digits in Mbps which means that if and when Telkom does decide to roll out 10Mbps speeds anyone on those lines will arguably be getting an above average broadband connection (albeit at a much higher price) when compared to the US and UK.
Granted, thier capped offerings tended towards higher caps (5 and 20GB caps seem the most common), better speeds (ADSL2+) and a bit cheaper (R300 a month all inclusive on average packages), but it's still a long way from the all-you-can-eat, virtually for free, 100Mbps that a lot of people seem to to tout as being normal in the rest of the world and that they believe we should be emulating. Heck, if you look at Speedtest results the average speed in all but a few countries is still in the single digits in Mbps which means that if and when Telkom does decide to roll out 10Mbps speeds anyone on those lines will arguably be getting an above average broadband connection (albeit at a much higher price) when compared to the US and UK.
ajules
Expert Member
You can keep repeating it till you are blue in the face some people just ain't going to get it.Get used to that fact.
Shayd
Expert Member
Stop wasting your time... people are looking for MWEB to put a number down, that will imply a cap and then this whole mess can get started again about if MWEB is "truly uncapped".
It's simple MWEB must just shut the hell up and point people to the T&C's when these questions are asked and we must simply respond rationally when one of the haters goes bananas and says MWEB will can you for using VPN's or other abusable services at all.
It's simple MWEB must just shut the hell up and point people to the T&C's when these questions are asked and we must simply respond rationally when one of the haters goes bananas and says MWEB will can you for using VPN's or other abusable services at all.