AB de villiers

[MickeyD]

Anyway, if you ask the people who really know the game they'll tell you this..

That ties in with my comment...

 

[MickeyD]

If I had to pick a current World XI for each format, then AB would be in all three. (as a batsman/fielder).

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

I can understand that he was thrust into the spot when Smith stepped down and Amla refused to step up, so I do not blame him at all... to captain your country's top team is a massive honour. I feel it was unfair to him and that he did struggle. Right now he is neither a great nor bad captain, but a f***ing great player!!

I don't think that captaincy is for everyone. A great player doesn't necessarily make for a great captain, and vice versa. It's more than just about setting fields and stuff, but also the way you marshal your troops. Which is why stronger personalities such as Biff, Border and S. Waugh made great captains - they were able to command the respect of the more difficult individuals and get them to work as a team...

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Sorry, what did I miss, how did race become the issue here?

With all due respect I didn;t say it for racists reasons. I simply said to prove that they too were not used to someone coming up with a comment like "Elton Chigumbura also played Count cricket and his record was better than some of the players who were retained longer on Kolpak or local agreements." Such arguments from the other side of the fence were something they were used to. I would say something like "Andy Flower&Heath Streak aside a lot of the players are really no better than the youngsters who were selected then." I digress but the point is you may not realise it but something sounds uncomfortable because you are not used to it.

Heck I've argued with some Australians and English people about Steyn/AB on cricinfo for crying out loud. I've rated Graeme Smith as the second best batsman in SA, and I think I had him in the best 20 ever in the world, and I statistically backed myself up. But that's with other people. Here the arguments & challenges are different. Fine line between racial considerations but it's the nature of our society.

Anywayy we have our different views of AB's captaincy and that's normall. No one can deny that he's a batting genius. I was reading an article the other day where Maxwell was saying he wants to be Steve Smith, and I'm thinking Steve Smith wants to be an AB (or KP). Next year the the arguments by most will be Steve Smith&Kohli are better than AB&Clarke ever were. That's cricket and fan's views.

 

[sand_man]

If I had to pick a current World XI for each format, then AB would be in all three. (as a batsman/fielder).

Since Feb 2013 as captain, he has a 60% ODI win ratio and a batting average of 61.72. That shows me that he is pretty competent as both captain and player! Those stats are pretty difficult to refute!

If we compare that to Graeme Smith, career win ratio of 61% at an average of 38.09!

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Since Feb 2013 as captain, he has a 60% ODI win ratio and a batting average of 61.72. That shows me that he is pretty competent as both captain and player! Those stats are pretty difficult to refute!

If we compare that to Graeme Smith, career win ratio of 61% at an average of 38.09!

I don't think that win ratios can be attributed entirely to the captain though. Ponting was a terrible captain with a great win ratio, but as soon as his star players started retiring, his poor captaincy resulted in his sacking...

 

[sand_man]

I don't think that win ratios can be attributed entirely to the captain though. Ponting was a terrible captain with a great win ratio, but as soon as his star players started retiring, his poor captaincy resulted in his sacking...

Of course! AB took over at a time when 2 of greats of the game had just retired in Kallis and Smith so that would have made his job of winning or all that more difficult. But how does one measure the effectiveness of the captaincy without looking at win ratios and the personnel performance of the captain himself?

Also important to look at the team spirit and I can't think of any major upheaval or controversy since AB has been captain! Again, testament to how he has lead and managed the team.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Of course! AB took over at a time when 2 of greats of the game had just retired in Kallis and Smith so that would have made his job of winning or all that more difficult. But how does one measure the effectiveness of the captaincy without looking at win ratios and the personnel performance of the captain himself?

Also important to look at the team spirit and I can't think of any major upheaval or controversy since AB has been captain! Again, testament to how he has lead and managed the team.

Glaring error there look it up and rectify it. they were still around and available to him.

I don't think any captain has had major controversies either.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Glaring error there look it up and rectify it. they were still around and available to him.

I don't think any captain has had major controversies either.

Hansie...

 

[sand_man]

Glaring error there look it up and rectify it. they were still around and available to him.

My bad. Smith end of November 2013 and Jacques July 2014.

EDIT: Mind you, the sudden loss of Boucher would have also effected the balance of the team.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

My bad. Smith end of November 2013 and Jacques July 2014.

EDIT: Mind you, the sudden loss of Boucher would have also effected the balance of the team.

Not really, I think that Boucher's loss actually added to the balance of the team. He played a few great knocks, but was still mainly in the team as a keeper. His loss allowed us to open up a spot by playing a keeper/batsman first with AB and now with QdK...

 

[sand_man]

I don't think any captain has had major controversies either.

Any South African captain?

Gees, I don't know about that... Hahahaha, as Mike already stated, Hansie.

What about your mate Makhaya? He wasn't too happy with captain and management at one stage either!

Then there's the Kallis, Boucher, Smith old boy's club that many players used to complain about??!

 

[Neoprod]

I can understand that he was thrust into the spot when Smith stepped down and Amla refused to step up, so I do not blame him at all... to captain your country's top team is a massive honour. I feel it was unfair to him and that he did struggle. Right now he is neither a great nor bad captain, but a f***ing great player!!

100%.

Bit like Shaun Pollock in 2003...both are much too "nice" to be captain. SA lost a huge personality in Graeme Smith that we won't be able to replace soon.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

100%.

Bit like Shaun Pollock in 2003...both are much too "nice" to be captain. SA lost a huge personality in Graeme Smith that we won't be able to replace soon.

Yet when he was captain, people were crying for him to leave. Your captain needs to have a strong personality. AB is too nice, Amla too I'm afraid. I actually think that Faf would make a better captain than both of them...

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Anyway, if you ask the people who really know the game they'll tell you this..

Yeah many people rate AB. Who doesn't?

If I had to pick a current World XI for each format, then AB would be in all three. (as a batsman/fielder).

In Tests where would you fit him in? I've also left out the likes of Williamson, Steve Smith, Shehzad, Ballance, Root, Clarke&Chanderpaul etc who've all been brilliant bats! Ajmal is good, but so is Sakib who's a world class batsman! So why must he miss out for Ajmal or Herath? And why would any of those seamers miss out when they are all about on par at their best? MAthews helps the seamers' load, while Sakib helps the spinners' load.
Warner, Amla, Younis, Kohli, Sanga(c-wk), Mathews, Sakib, Johnson, Harris/Anderson, Steyn, Ajmal

His stats in T20s prove he cannot get into the XI. Not a chance! Even Maxwell&Kohli can't get in too! Raina is peerless in this format, plus we must never forget that JP has been consistently superior to all our batsmen in T20Is (it's no wonder even AB told Domingo JP must go in before he made 149). Both spin!
Gayle, Finch, Warner, BMac(c-wk), Raina, JP, Watson, Afridi, Johnson/Starc, Narine, Malinga

From where I'm standing, AB can only get in if he establishes himself has a top order batsmen and proves himself there like the others have over longer periods in their careers. In this day and age, if you're batting as low as he does, you automatically lose out to those who are genuine allrounders (Watson, Sakib, Mathews etc). AB is great, but if he's included it would be controversial or balance sacrificed.

ODIs I don't think anyone can make an argument though. But it would be interesting to get people thoughts. ODIs aside I don't think he's an automatic. Players who are better in certain roles would have to be sacrificed.

 

[Neoprod]

Yeah many people rate AB. Who doesn't?

In Tests where would you fit him in? I've also left out the likes of Williamson, Steve Smith, Shehzad, Ballance, Root, Clarke&Chanderpaul etc who've all been brilliant bats! Ajmal is good, but so is Sakib who's a world class batsman! So why must he miss out for Ajmal or Herath? And why would any of those seamers miss out when they are all about on par at their best? MAthews helps the seamers' load, while Sakib helps the spinners' load.
Warner, Amla, Younis, Kohli, Sanga(c-wk), Mathews, Sakib, Johnson, Harris/Anderson, Steyn, Ajmal

His stats in T20s prove he cannot get into the XI. Not a chance! Even Maxwell&Kohli can't get in too! Raina is peerless in this format, plus we must never forget that JP has been consistently superior to all our batsmen in T20Is (it's no wonder even AB told Domingo JP must go in before he made 149). Both spin!
Gayle, Finch, Warner, BMac(c-wk), Raina, JP, Watson, Afridi, Johnson/Starc, Narine, Malinga

From where I'm standing, AB can only get in if he establishes himself has a top order batsmen and proves himself there like the others have over longer periods in their careers. In this day and age, if you're batting as low as he does, you automatically lose out to those who are genuine allrounders (Watson, Sakib, Mathews etc). AB is great, but if he's included it would be controversial or balance sacrificed.

ODIs I don't think anyone can make an argument though. But it would be interesting to get people thoughts. ODIs aside I don't think he's an automatic. Players who are better in certain roles would have to be sacrificed.

http://www.icc-cricket.com/news/2014/media-releases/82831/icc-test-and-odi-teams-of-the-year-2014-announced

ICC Test Team of the Year 2014 (in batting order):

David Warner (Aus)
Kane Williamson (NZ)
Kumar Sangakkara (SL)
AB de Villiers (SA)
Joe Root (Eng)
Angelo Mathews (SL) (captain)
Mitchell Johnson (Aus)
Stuart Broad (Eng)
Dale Steyn (SA)
Rangana Herath (SL)
Tim Southee (NZ)
Ross Taylor (NZ) (12th man)

Dale Steyn has also been selected for a record seventh successive year in the ICC Test Team of the Year, while his team-mate AB de Villiers has been selected for the fifth time (2009, 2010, 2011, 2013 and 2014).


ICC ODI Team of the Year 2014 (in batting order):

Mohammad Hafeez (Pak)
Quinton de Kock (SA)
Virat Kohli (Ind)
George Bailey (Aus)
AB de Villiers (SA)
MS Dhoni (wicketkeeper) (captain)
Dwayne Bravo (WI)
James Faulkner (Aus)
Dale Steyn (SA)
Mohammad Shami (Ind)
Ajantha Mendis (SL)
Rohit Sharma (Ind) (12th man)

Players to be previously selected in the ICC ODI Team of the Year are de Villiers (2010, 2011 and 2013), Virat Kohli (2012) and Ajantha Mendis (2009).

I put more stock in the ICC's opinion of AB than yours.

 

[WaxLyrical]

Am I seeing correctly in that there's no Amla in both ICC teams. Whats wrong with this.

 

[Noob-Noob]

Am I seeing correctly in that there's no Amla in both ICC teams. Whats wrong with this.

Yeah, specially the ODI team, he is probably the best ODI batsman ever.

 

[sand_man]

Yeah, I assumed QDK was selected as opener/keeper but with MS in the side I would open with Amla in ODI and leave QDK out. Amla batting at 3 in the test side...

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Yeah, specially the ODI team, he is probably the best ODI batsman ever.

Nah I'd say Viv Richards. But definitely the best ODI opener for me...