AB de villiers

[Creag]

Edit,
Does anyone still read ZCF's books?, I tend to TL;DR all of them.

I don't. Just raises my non-existent blood pressure if I were foolish enough to do so. I see the name and move along to the next thread. Easier that way. My day job is stressful enough without adding to it with futile gibberish.

 

[Neoprod]

Come on ... say it... you always troll me.

All I'll say is it's easy to take the opposite position to yours and still be right

 

[AirWolf]

Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving us wordy evidence of the fact. -George Eliot (1819-1880)

Apt?

ROFL .

 

[Rubberpigg]

I'm familiar with what he said and he basically said what I said myself
I never debated his definite presence in any ODI side. You're talking ODIs and along with Kohli, Amla, Viv & Sachin, AB will be the top 5 ODI batsmen ever so no one doubts they belong in the same mention. As for Test, forget it!

A lot of the things said in that article are revealing and they merely add weight to the argument that there's lots of potential that will push AB further down the ladder of batting greats:

KOHLI


STEVE SMITH


KUMAR SANGAKKARA

It says a lot that, even in a CWC ODI article, where Sanga is concerned Viv remembers Tests. It's not an accident that he didn't mention Tests with AB - he explicitly says AB is hard to leave out of any ODI side, but says Sanga has been peerless and also touches on his impact in both ODIs AND TESTS. If you read between the lines, he shares my sentiments. AB is a lesser force than many greats in Tests.

What he says about Kohli - 5 years younger than AB - proves it would be rather silly to equate them at the end of their careers considering Kohli is way ahead of ABdV at every stage of their careers - captaincy, averages, ODI tons, Test tons etc.

When it come to test cricket then I agree with most of what you say.
He still hasn't done enough to be regarded as a great like Richards, Lara, Tendulkar etc.
But for most of his tests he has been the team's wicket keeper-batsman.
That' another animal altogether.
Where does he rank amongst test wicket keeper-batsmen?
But nice to see that you rank him in the top five ODI batsmen.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

When it come to test cricket then I agree with most of what you say.
He still hasn't done enough to be regarded as a great like Richards, Lara, Tendulkar etc.
But for most of his tests he has been the team's wicket keeper-batsman.
That' another animal altogether.
Where does he rank amongst test wicket keeper-batsmen?
But nice to see that you rank him in the top five ODI batsmen.

Right now he's second only to Sanga. But historically I'd put him at #5 of those that I've watched.

Top 3 tamed proper bowlers in Tests, and they were the best batsmen in their sides with little support. However, Sanga had Jayasuriya, Attapatu, Dilshan, Mahela, Samaraweera & Aravinda so scratch him. But can I really rank Flower ahead of Sanga? No chance! Shane Warne's Top 100 players list had them neck&neck. He alternated his ranking with bowlers so they are separated by a bowler, but in my case I'm separating them with Stewart (then again he had Gilchrist at 16 ahead of both, but I'm not about to rate him ahead of those three like he did. Never! He has Stewart at 69 behind Jonty&Hansie can you believe it! Proper Ashes rivalry&animosity(in fact he has just two Englishmen in his top 30, reward for Gooch for that ball of the century perhaps, and Flintoff at number 30)! .

Stewart was so sucessful as an opener or at first drop for the bulk of his career. Playing in that position in English conditions you have to be excellent, but he's not good enough to be ahead of Sanga. No way. Flower batted lower mostly at 5&6, but he too tamed the very best attacks, including the Proteas.

The sad fact of the matter is AB de Villers has played 30 Tests and 52 innings in AUS, ENG, IND, NZ, PAK&SL and scored just 4 centuries. That's embarassing! 20 Tests(35 innings) as an opener, yet just 3 centuries averaging mid 30s is pathetic (bearing in mind Alviro was forced to retire as an opener after 36 Tests because he was considered useless yet he had a similar record). He's played 4 Tests against Bangladesh - 2 each home&away - and he has no half-century or century and averages just 17 against them. That's unforgivable. But his surge of last few seasons has me putting him ahead of Prior, Dhoni, Haddin &McCullum, even though he hasn't had as many defining knocks in his career like they have.

1.Kumar Sangakkara
2.Alec Stewart
3.Andy Flower
4.Adam Gilchrist
5.AB de Villiers
6.Matt Prior
7.Brad Haddin
8.Brendan McCullum
9.MS Dhoni
10.Kamran Akmal

I know BMac would feel he deserves to be behind AB, but Prior&Haddin have produced world class batting outperforming some greats in their respective sides while BMac has bashed poor bowlers lately to drag himself up so he's ok where he is.

If you had asked purely keeping I'd have said 1.Healy, 2Taibu, 3.Boucher. But you said wicket-keeper batsmen with an emphasis on batting, so those 3 brilliant goalkeepers miss out.

 

[Mike Hoxbig]

Taibu... lol

 

[stefan9]

Any list that doesn't have gilly as the nr1 batsman/keeper can't be taken seriously.

 

[Beavis]

Any list that doesn't have gilly as the nr1 batsman/keeper can't be taken seriously.

I agree to this

 

[AirWolf]

Any list that doesn't have gilly as the nr1 batsman/keeper can't be taken seriously.

Best list of current international players? .

.

 

[ZCFOutkast]

Any list that doesn't have gilly as the nr1 batsman/keeper can't be taken seriously.

Judging from your reasoning, you must belong to the school of thought that believes Roberto Carlos is a better left-back than Paolo Maldini.

 

[Noob-Noob]

Judging from your reasoning, you must belong to the school of thought that believes Roberto Carlos is a better left-back than Paolo Maldini.

I agree with you ZCF, AB should have been number one and Gilly 2

 

[ZCFOutkast]

I agree with you ZCF, AB should have been number one and Gilly 2

When I post things such as this below, do you guys ignore them and simply pretend it has no impact on a player's worth or do you feel it doesn't apply to AB?

The sad fact of the matter is AB de Villers has played 30 Tests and 52 innings in AUS, ENG, IND, NZ, PAK&SL and scored just 4 centuries. That's embarassing! 20 Tests(35 innings) as an opener, yet just 3 centuries averaging mid 30s is pathetic (bearing in mind Alviro was forced to retire as an opener after 36 Tests because he was considered useless yet he had a similar record). He's played 4 Tests against Bangladesh - 2 each home&away - and he has no half-century or century and averages just 17 against them. That's unforgivable.

In my humble opinion, if South Africa was a fair place, AB would've been dropped like Amla was. Who knows how much he would have struggled to get back. Other countries like Australia dropped great players like Phil Jacques due to a surplus of class. We dropped a brilliant Amla, but didn't do the same for Ab.

Same thing is happening with Reeza. Hardly given a run but Rilee,QdK&Ingram (&Abbott) had the equivalent of what constitutes careers to most players - all filled with failures until they "came right".

 

[ZCFOutkast]

And by the way, Joe Root was dropped after just 5 matches opening despite doing better than AB as an opener (38avg, 1 century, 1 fifty), while Sam Robson is facing being dropped by England after just 7 matches (31avg, 1 century, 1 fifty)

All of this shows that in SA favourites are babysat or nursed to success at the expense of others, then later their failures&shortcomings are ignored to perpetuate&overstate their brilliance.

 

[Noob-Noob]

When I post things such as this below, do you guys ignore them and simply pretend it has no impact on a player's worth or do you feel it doesn't apply to AB?


In my humble opinion, if South Africa was a fair place, AB would've been dropped like Amla was. Who knows how much he would have struggled to get back. Other countries like Australia dropped great players like Phil Jacques due to a surplus of class. We dropped a brilliant Amla, but didn't do the same for Ab.

Same thing is happening with Reeza. Hardly given a run but Rilee,QdK&Ingram (&Abbott) had the equivalent of what constitutes careers to most players - all filled with failures until they "came right".

TL;DR
But i agree with you, AB is the best ever.

 

[sand_man]

In my humble opinion, if South Africa was a fair place, AB would've been dropped like Amla was.

De Villiers became the second youngest and second fastest South African to reach 1000 test runs after Graeme Pollock and you want to drop him??!!!

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! And you wonder why people ignore your posts.... :wtf:

 

[Noob-Noob]

De Villiers became the second youngest and second fastest South African to reach 1000 test runs after Graeme Pollock and you want to drop him??!!!

BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! And you wonder why people ignore your posts.... :wtf:

Look at the bright side, At least MyBB has someone who is fluent in gibberish

 

[Electric]

Amazing how someone can shape an entire conversation to suite their agenda.

 

[sand_man]

The sad fact of the matter is AB de Villers has played 30 Tests and 52 innings in AUS, ENG, IND, NZ, PAK&SL and scored just 4 centuries. That's embarassing! 20 Tests(35 innings) as an opener, yet just 3 centuries averaging mid 30s is pathetic (bearing in mind Alviro was forced to retire as an opener after 36 Tests because he was considered useless yet he had a similar record).

Alviro averaged 24 the last 2 years of his test career! Where in the world of international cricket is that good enough to keep your place at the top of the batting order? I don't think he was forced. I think he put the needs of the team ahead of his own and did the honorable thing!

 

[stefan9]

Judging from your reasoning, you must belong to the school of thought that believes Roberto Carlos is a better left-back than Paolo Maldini.

Best attacking left back yes, best overall left back no.

Kumar averages 40.48 when he is wicket keeper in test matches, he averages 69.35 when not keeping. Stats basicly says it all Gillchrist's average 47.60 is higher as a keeper then kumar's as a keeper.

Your second choice Alec Stewart averaged 34.92 as keeper.

Can argue about flower, he did play a lot less matches then the others so that may have an influence on his stats not dropping of later on. But fair enough argument if you prefer him.


As to the argument that AB should have been dropped when struggling early on. a certain J Kallis struggled a lot, even more then AB but was never dropped.

As to Reeza maybe when he starts averaging more then 34 in fc cricket he will make the grade.

 

[Noob-Noob]

As to Reeza maybe when he starts averaging more then 34 in fc cricket he will make the grade.

What are you saying!!!, Stats only counts when it suits ZCF's argument.
Average of 34 says absolutely nothing, that average of 34 will get him into any other team in the world as they guy is obviously the best opener, ever.
Only reason he as a poor average is because they deliberately bowl faster to him to get his wicket, and suppress his actual talent.