Blu-Ray gains ground

[I am Penguin]

Precisely. What's worse is that the mandatory downsampling over component on non-HDCP connections for legacy hardware means that that equipment only shows a picture slightly better than SD. So if your full HD projector, plasma or LCD has no HDCP Or an earlier version you're buggered. The BD industry (made up of the same people who make modern HDTVs) will force you to buy a new TV set too to enjoy the new format. This was a big cause of anger on the AVForums. Many videophiles had expensive
pre-BD full HD projectors and plasma screens - and all that equipment was suddenly made worthless. BTW pre-BD you could get full HD on cable and on HD-VHS.

If you only buy the player and connect to your SD set, you get no benefits either.

So at present BD is just a big bag of hurt.

Yeah for you it is a bag of hurt as you feel you wasted money on a BD player, BD titles, 3 HD TV screens all bought without due consideration and now nothing works, or so it seems. Now you have a gripe with SONY and DRM because of your own downfall. Shame I feel for you. My stuff works fine. Thank you. All legally bought and paid in cash. No tears here.

 

[milomak]

tbf there should be an early adopter prize if HDCP was not an initial issue. Because without them, we would not have the technology today.

 

[I am Penguin]

I think what I am Penguin also misses is how we as consumers should have the choice to use what we have bought legally as we please within reasonable parameters.

So I happen to have a HTPC setup (MythTV) in my house. Is it not reasonable that I want to rip something I have bought to a central storage and have people within my household watch it any time they wish on any of the TVs within the house? Or are we as consumers going to accept that I need to buy as many copies of the movie as I have TVs. I find that outrageous.

The distributors say it is fine for all 4 members of the household to watch the movie together. But for each individual to watch the same move starting at different times is illegal?

For some here on this forum "reasonable parameters" means a free for all copy and give away spree. Thus piracy. They even advocate and sell it here!

The fact that it is an issue is not of the making of the corporations it is due to the rife piracy going on.

But why complain, you already stated you can copy it at free will. So no more problems there, is there.

The problem with ripping is that one unit is bought and ripped then copied hundreds of times for free distribution. Therefore the main gripe about DRM. Read the license again you agreed to by buying the media.

 

[milomak]

What you also miss I am Penguin is that the people who are crying here are those with the knowledge to work around the problem. And we are the few amongst the many.

The fact remains that the issues we raise are legitimate issues that buyers of legal content will face. and we all know that pirates face no DRM issues because they find workarounds - as evidenced by my link above.

So the question remains, why punish the people who actually buy your product. because DRM has no impact on the mainstream pirate. And they are the ones who bypass the system DRM is meant to stop and make money.

 

[milomak]

The problem with ripping is that one unit is bought and ripped then copied hundreds of times for free distribution. Therefore the main gripe about DRM. Read the license again you agreed to by buying the media.

This point you make. Within my group of friends, I can hardly imagine how many of them would know how to make a copy of a normal DVD, let alone go through the process copying a BD requires.

And if you know a number of people who know how to do this, well it's most likely that you will not need to make copies for them as they most likely have the access to the technology to make it happen.

So again even in this instance DRM is not stopping the people who do the damage.

EDIT: I am one of those who complains how useless DRM is. But yet I will get things from the internet.But I do not distribute.

 

[I am Penguin]

Why Are Blu-ray Sales Suffering?

Now this describes my stance clearly:

It seems as if HD-DVD isn't Blu-ray's greatest challenge. The venerable DVD is still putting up a fight against Sony's fledgling format. While Blu-ray has been around for years now, its sales are not meeting expectations. I have to agree with Bill Mechanic's idea that DVDs are hurting Blu-ray sales more than the economy. While Blu-ray definately provides more features and a sharp HDTV signal, it seems that most people aren't willing to pay a high premium for the extra content and clarity. Having an HDTV myself, I can certainly appreciate 720p and 1080p video, but DVDs fit in that category of "good enough" for me to watch most things. In fact, when shopping, I find myself thinking that Blu-ray is only worth it for certain videos, like documentaries, or movies that provide a lot of visuals. The rest, I look for in the bargain DVD bin! Am I the only one here? Is everyone else busy replacing their DVD collection with Blu-ray discs?

No! I am there too. I have many DVD's, many with quality sound like DTS ES 6.1 etc. No way I am replacing anything unless they resampled the original video and recreated proper sound tracks. Blu Ray for me is 1080p HD content and 7.1 channel Master DTS sound. The rest is fine on standard DVD unless there is extra content and features I want or the visuals are worth it. Before any purchase I will determine what BD disc I want to buy and check the ratings reviews etc. and then look for those specific titles only. Quality is the important factor. Not the media in itself. Why buy a BD DVD if the content is only with a upscaled movie to HD and still have the DOLBY 5.1 sound track? Thats the problem. Many consumers do not even read the details or specs. They just buy the title, then afterwards they blame their ignorance onto Blu Ray.

 

[I am Penguin]

This point you make. Within my group of friends, I can hardly imagine how many of them would know how to make a copy of a normal DVD, let alone go through the process copying a BD requires.

And if you know a number of people who know how to do this, well it's most likely that you will not need to make copies for them as they most likely have the access to the technology to make it happen.

So again even in this instance DRM is not stopping the people who do the damage.

EDIT: I am one of those who complains how useless DRM is. But yet I will get things from the internet.But I do not distribute.

Dont we all?

BTW the nic Penguin have nothing to do with Linux. I am interested in Linux but not to much because of all the hassles. I just downloaded YDL and Ubuntu 8.10 for the PS3. That will be my first venture in Linux as a OS. Now the penguin on a PS3 is a nice and fitting logo.

Concerning DRM. I have the same dislike for it but got to understand why Corporations want to do it. After all its due to those corporations that we have the benefit and luxury of all this new inventions we enjoy Like PC's, Blu Ray, HD TV, etc. They shut down. We loose.
How long does Linux exists? How far have they come compared to Windows? They cannot as yet all do WiFi properly.

 

[I am Penguin]

So the question remains, why punish the people who actually buy your product. because DRM has no impact on the mainstream pirate. And they are the ones who bypass the system DRM is meant to stop and make money.

I think the reverse is true. The pirates make copies to sell. That market is not as big as the free for all liasse affair pirates, those that quickly copy the music over to someones phone, cut a disc copy for the new car-fi, yes the kids, then the dads, I have a friend with close to a terrabyte worth of music, movies etc. He will never in his life go through all of it but him and the rest of his mates are avid sharers. Continually copying media. They are not the mains stream pirates but those that believe in free for all share for all. So there is the crux of the matter and the reasons for DRM. DRM is a bad solution to an even worse problem. But what else is there? Price? As I stated you can make all the media R1.00 per download. You will still have most of the people wanting it for free as 10000 songs will be worth R10000.00 rand!. So there is the Dilema. So now the corporations look at limiting the hardware. Like hypervisors, HDCP, decoding etc. Now people beach but forget they are the cause for it! So its again a case the of "Innocent" should suffer because of the many.

 

[PeterCH]

For some here on this forum "reasonable parameters" means a free for all copy and give away spree. Thus piracy. They even advocate and sell it here!

The fact that it is an issue is not of the making of the corporations it is due to the rife piracy going on.

But why complain, you already stated you can copy it at free will. So no more problems there, is there.

The problem with ripping is that one unit is bought and ripped then copied hundreds of times for free distribution. Therefore the main gripe about DRM. Read the license again you agreed to by buying the media.

I told you earlier NOT to make assumptions about other people.
Don't assume everyone will do what you would do.
Also you have no idea how many products I own. I've contributed far more money towards the content producers and Hardware makers then you probably have.

Secondly, don't say I'm sorry about my equipment. My HD plasma was bought back in 2005 and there was no concept of HDCP but the picture it delivers still betters most screens I see around today. It's moronic to suggest that I should suffer lack because of resolution downsampling. My other two screens including my 3Mpix S-IPS Dell 30 inch and another display are HDCP compatible.

Thirdly, not everyone wants to copy and give away. It's NOT illegal to format shift - in the European UNION at least, and it's NOT illegal to copy any copyrighted works, same story in South Africa for backup purposes, it's called Fair Use. Making personal backups is not illegal in USA either. So before you accuse anyone of anything be ready to get a good lawyer.

IamPenguin, you're totally clueless. I'm thinking more and more you're a troll to post such rubbish in the face or irrefutable evidence, law and public opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but your ad hominem attack replies, lack of backup for any of my assertions lead me to believe that copy-pasting ad sites is all you're good at.

 

[milomak]

I think the reverse is true. The pirates make copies to sell. That market is not as big as the free for all liasse affair pirates, those that quickly copy the music over to someones phone, cut a disc copy for the new car-fi, yes the kids, then the dads, I have a friend with close to a terrabyte worth of music, movies etc. He will never in his life go through all of it but him and the rest of his mates are avid sharers. Continually copying media. They are not the mains stream pirates but those that believe in free for all share for all. So there is the crux of the matter and the reasons for DRM. DRM is a bad solution to an even worse problem. But what else is there? Price? As I stated you can make all the media R1.00 per download. You will still have most of the people wanting it for free as 10000 songs will be worth R10000.00 rand!. So there is the Dilema. So now the corporations look at limiting the hardware. Like hypervisors, HDCP, decoding etc. Now people beach but forget they are the cause for it! So its again a case the of "Innocent" should suffer because of the many.

I don't know the numbers, but i would be willing to guess that the number of people who are legitimate users far outweigh the pirates. and that si the point. they are the ones who suffer.

 

[Rouxenator]

Pirating is good for the entertainment business because many people would not pay to see something but if they can pirate it they would. At least when they pirate it and watch it the work gets seen by some people. If not it would have just been a waste to make the work in the first place.

 

[Gothan]

Pirating is good for the entertainment business because many people would not pay to see something but if they can pirate it they would. At least when they pirate it and watch it the work gets seen by some people. If not it would have just been a waste to make the work in the first place.

Huh? Smoke print toner much?

 

[HBee]

So if the licencing for BD is to be lumped together with CD and DVD, does this mean that CD and DVD will now be subsidizing BD?

 

[Rouxenator]

No - it is just that the industry think if they can stop pirating, all piracy sourced stuff will all of a sudden be sourced from legal channles. BS - a lot of people will just nor bother all together. So the hard work they put into it will be seen and enjoyed by less people. Piracy is good.

 

[I am Penguin]

So before you accuse anyone of anything be ready to get a good lawyer.

IamPenguin, you're totally clueless. I'm thinking more and more you're a troll to post such rubbish in the face or irrefutable evidence, law and public opinion. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but your ad hominem attack replies, lack of backup for any of my assertions lead me to believe that copy-pasting ad sites is all you're good at.

Shame, I accuse you of nothing but the fact that you are against DRM for your own personal reasons but You want to enforce it on everyone in every thread. I could only guess why! Go see your Lawyer, Tell him my name and say I send you. He will give you discount if you tell him about your economy crisis.

If anyone seems to be clueless its you posting the same copied text over and over in any thread concerning anything remotely linked to DRM.

As for your sorrows buying the wrong equipment, Sorry! thats not me, M$ or Sony's fault. Based on your gripes you were to easilly missled by a salesman.

Go read the garbage you tried to post about M$ history again and try to establish what your real agenda is. Then come back and talk sense. I note you stopped ranting about the economy in crisis in all the new technology threads. Thanks for that. Have you seen the latest SA deficit?

Peace!

 

[PeterCH]

Shame, I accuse you of nothing but the fact that you are against DRM for your own personal reasons but You want to enforce it on everyone in every thread. I could only guess why! Go see your Lawyer, Tell him my name and say I send you. He will give you discount if you tell him about your economy crisis.

NO, you accused me of THIS:

Originally Posted by I am Penguin View Post
For some here on this forum "reasonable parameters" means a free for all copy and give away spree. Thus piracy. They even advocate and sell it here!

While all I want is "Fair Use." Google it.

If anyone seems to be clueless its you posting the same copied text over and over in any thread concerning anything remotely linked to DRM.

I have to copy it over and over again because you totally ignore it or are unable to comprehend it.

As for your sorrows buying the wrong equipment, Sorry! thats not me, M$ or Sony's fault. Based on your gripes you were to easilly missled by a salesman.

That salesman must have been a soothsayer because when I bought my set there was NO HDCP.

Go read the garbage you tried to post about M$ history again and try to establish what your real agenda is. Then come back and talk sense. I note you stopped ranting about the economy in crisis in all the new technology threads. Thanks for that. Have you seen the latest SA deficit?

You bring in other threads into this one. I don't. Come on, mature a bit,
I've been told than numerous people have simply put you on Ignore.

Peace!

FIRST, practice what you preach.

 

[I am Penguin]

NO, you accused me of THIS:

While all I want is "Fair Use." Google it.



I have to copy it over and over again because you totally ignore it or are unable to comprehend it.


That salesman must have been a soothsayer because when I bought my set there was NO HDCP.



You bring in other threads into this one. I don't. Come on, mature a bit,
I've been told than numerous people have simply put you on Ignore.



FIRST, practice what you preach.

If you feel guilty I cannot help it. I made the comments in general to most people that oppose DRM. Like they say If the shoe fits.

Please put me on Ignore. See if I care, I do not care a damn about most members here. I do care more about the other readers browsing this forum and have to read all this anti DRM, Microsoft, Blu Ray fud and have to believe it. So if you stay on topic with facts fine, if you keep on moving off topic with your personal agendas and gripes I will repond for the sake of all the readers that need to see where you come from.

What you fail to understand is YOUR fair use will be to the advantage of pirates with their version of fair "USE" and that is why the major corporations are doing something to make it difficult for the pirates and thus also for the "Non Pirates" too. What should they do, shut down? If you feel so strong about it take those corporations to court. No use you come and annoy everyone in all the threads with your personal corporate vendettas. They SONY et al, do not even read the hate and cr@p you spew! Write them letter, memmos, e-mails, flight banners... anything, FFS, but just keep you FUD at bay. This topic is about Blu Ray gaining market share not about your personal agenda against Blu Ray and Sony. Did you get that now? Do you understand? Now go back to your history thread and play. Post more anti M$ fud there.

 

[Rosaudio]

Blu-Ray FTW

Screw the haters

 

[PeterCH]

If you feel guilty I cannot help it. I made the comments in general to most people that oppose DRM. Like they say If the shoe fits.

Please put me on Ignore. See if I care, I do not care a damn about most members here. I do care more about the other readers browsing this forum and have to read all this anti DRM, Microsoft, Blu Ray fud and have to believe it. So if you stay on topic with facts fine, if you keep on moving off topic with your personal agendas and gripes I will repond for the sake of all the readers that need to see where you come from.

What you fail to understand is YOUR fair use will be to the advantage of pirates with their version of fair "USE" and that is why the major corporations are doing something to make it difficult for the pirates and thus also for the "Non Pirates" too. What should they do, shut down? If you feel so strong about it take those corporations to court. No use you come and annoy everyone in all the threads with your personal corporate vendettas. They SONY et al, do not even read the hate and cr@p you spew! Write them letter, memmos, e-mails, flight banners... anything, FFS, but just keep you FUD at bay. This topic is about Blu Ray gaining market share not about your personal agenda against Blu Ray and Sony. Did you get that now? Do you understand? Now go back to your history thread and play. Post more anti M$ fud there.

You must still be in high school. Shame.

I think you should marry Howard Stringer if you so love Sony. I'll even send you a wedding present.

 

[PeterCH]

Blu-Ray FTW

Screw the haters

This nice blonde I'll have here tomorrow night will oblige.