Sign up with GoogleOK lest stick to this issue. The latency is a problem on your network. Nothing to do with OS in this case.
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Charting Fibre speed over time.
- Thread starter jacof
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OK lest stick to this issue. The latency is a problem on your network. Nothing to do with OS in this case.
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How is a local test relative to an external latency test? One stays within the network and the other is an external path.
It is not that is just the point. These pings are not local, I am not on your network anymore and my local network has nothing to do with your network issue at this stage. The pings are coming from external servers from around the world. All gamers use external servers on international sites. Thus if the pings from external servers to your network is slow the gamers will feel it. And this has nothing to do with OS.
https://www.paessler.com/manuals/prtg/cloud_ping_sensor
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Yeap correct unrelated to the OS issue? I have already explained where the higher latency pings have come from.
OK cool so we agree on that finally :crylaugh: . So do you agree you have an issue on your network when it comes to this latency ?
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Yeap with the burst capacity which we have disabled logged with carrier and re-routed which I have also already mentioned?
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Just to chip in here - the last few posts from your side hasn't been fairly constructive in terms of the problem you described initially - almost feels like a witch hunt.
PBCool has been upfront in explaining the latency externally with their burst capacity and they clearly have a plan to sort it out - give them the chance to do so.
Your (and all of our tests) were conducted before you even hit the international breakout, so it's a problem, but unrelated to the matter at hand.
I feel your frustration, but try to keep things friendly - I don't see any other ISP reps jumping at the opportunity to try afford you some insight into the problem and spending time to troubleshoot your issue in detail
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Netops picked it up 3 days ago and logged it with the carrier, swinging capacity is usually not the first thing to do as it introduces additional inconsistencies so when these things happen (and they do) they take a few days to resolve. 1 in 3 packets having higher latency coming from our London peering wouldn't have a major effect on the experience of things (even gaming). But if after a few days there is no resolve we would swing the capacity over (which is what we have done)
It seems you should start your own ISP as you are so excited about all this
Netops picked it up 3 days ago and logged it with the carrier, swinging capacity is usually not the first thing to do as it introduces additional inconsistencies so when these things happen (and they do) they take a few days to resolve. 1 in 3 packets having higher latency coming from our London peering wouldn't have a major effect on the experience of things (even gaming). But if after a few days there is no resolve we would swing the capacity over (which is what we have done)
It seems you should start your own ISP as you are so excited about all this
Thanks for the info. Hahahaha lol. Nope I just want a Fibre that works and I get what I pay for.
Geoff.D
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Oh the fibre works as intended to, BUT, that does not mean the service providers implement the services they provide over fibre as the designers of the technology intended it should be implemented.
I disagree. Those days are gone. The whole push for fibre is centered around triple-play/IPTV and nobody's gonna tolerate buffering streams once this technology goes primetime / becomes the de-facto conduit for such services en-masse, believe me. ISP's who can't handle demand properly or who persist with a shaping mentality are going to pay the price. This thread is a perfect example of consumers making sure that they get what they pay for. When it comes to fibre, there is no such thing as best effort because your speed does not degrade with distance as with ADSL. There is no excuse, ISP's need to ensure a robust backbone or they will lose out to the competition, it's that simple. The days of a stingy Telkomonopoly are over. The beautiful thing about a free-market capitalist society is how competition can benefit and protect the end consumer and his little wallet.
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I don't know, that doesn't seem to be the case.
With ADSL, and possibly with open access fibre in SA, there is a repeating pattern of one ISP becoming the darling of the local community. People leave their current ISPs for the promised land, and things degrade on the chosen ISP, which quickly falls out of favour and a new darling emerges. Rinse repeat. Often this seems to be due to the ISPs doing the bare minimum to cover their butts in terms of bandwidth supply. An unexpected influx of users means IPC capacity issues which leads to delays from Telkom and degradation of services. Whether or not this will change with fibre for those providers that don't need to use IPC, remains to be seen. I don't think the number of active fibre installations in SA is anywhere near critical mass, and already reports of performance degradation are making the rounds.
It may sound like a conspiracy theory, but there also seems to be a fair amount of "collusion" between the local ISPs where fibre is concerned. In the early days quite a few ISPs offered line-only options on Openserve for example. Now there are maybe 1 or 2, and even those don't list them on their sites, but will admit to offering the service if asked directly. Why? Because it's more profitable to sell you the line AND the data, and even though you're not locked into keeping them as an ISP, the prospect of spending weeks without internet due to the downright stupidity of the migration system is more than enough to put people off.
As for this thread, I don't really see consumers making sure of anything. Props to jacof for his endeavours, but all I saw was the pattern I described above. ISP underperforms, user tests various other ISPs to find one that performs better, moves there. There was no public outry, none of the ISPs that didn't perform have been brought to task or made public acknowledgements, and continue to offer the same level of service to hundreds or thousands of less savvy users who don't know the difference. And shaping / FUP still applies. Your IPTV experience may be amazing from whatever ISP the IPTV offering has partnered with, but the rest of your internet experience could be garbage.
With ADSL, and possibly with open access fibre in SA, there is a repeating pattern of one ISP becoming the darling of the local community. People leave their current ISPs for the promised land, and things degrade on the chosen ISP, which quickly falls out of favour and a new darling emerges. Rinse repeat. Often this seems to be due to the ISPs doing the bare minimum to cover their butts in terms of bandwidth supply. An unexpected influx of users means IPC capacity issues which leads to delays from Telkom and degradation of services. Whether or not this will change with fibre for those providers that don't need to use IPC, remains to be seen. I don't think the number of active fibre installations in SA is anywhere near critical mass, and already reports of performance degradation are making the rounds.
It may sound like a conspiracy theory, but there also seems to be a fair amount of "collusion" between the local ISPs where fibre is concerned. In the early days quite a few ISPs offered line-only options on Openserve for example. Now there are maybe 1 or 2, and even those don't list them on their sites, but will admit to offering the service if asked directly. Why? Because it's more profitable to sell you the line AND the data, and even though you're not locked into keeping them as an ISP, the prospect of spending weeks without internet due to the downright stupidity of the migration system is more than enough to put people off.
As for this thread, I don't really see consumers making sure of anything. Props to jacof for his endeavours, but all I saw was the pattern I described above. ISP underperforms, user tests various other ISPs to find one that performs better, moves there. There was no public outry, none of the ISPs that didn't perform have been brought to task or made public acknowledgements, and continue to offer the same level of service to hundreds or thousands of less savvy users who don't know the difference. And shaping / FUP still applies. Your IPTV experience may be amazing from whatever ISP the IPTV offering has partnered with, but the rest of your internet experience could be garbage.
I look at like this. It can't be worse right?
With fibre I get rid of my last mile issues (SNR when it rains and CRC errors galore) and I get rid of my IPC issues. This last one to me is the biggest boon. It's my understanding that IPC is one of the biggest costs to an ISP and being able to get rid of that means you will most likely get a better experience because that money the ISP can either spend on their network to improve it or to sit on a bigger profit margin. Win win. Either way you're likely to get the same or an improved experience at a similar price with better speeds, unless you're unlucky and get OS are your provider, then you have to deal with IPC again.
For sure, it can't be worse. Unfortunately, Openserve are increasing coverage far more aggressively than the other providers, meaning they are the only option in some areas for months / years to come. The fact that there ARE other providers at all is a great thing for SA though.
I agree with you. I have made a complaint with ICASA but I am the only one. All the consumers have to do it not just me. And when I tried to get answers to prove there are issues on CI network I was told I am on a witch hunt. I just want the service I paid for and if ISPs know about issues fix it without a long story.
I know and I cry for everyone who is stuck with OS but even with them you get rid of your last mile issues so its one less thing to worry about.
I don't think everyone complaining is going to make a difference. If what you say is true, that the problem is the IS backbone, then how is everyone yelling at the ISP going to help? I'm not sure ISP's have many options at all for cost effective backhaul in South Africa. IS might even know there's a problem and either can't or don't want to fix it which could be one of the reasons why its rumored they're selling out:
https://mybroadband.co.za/news/business/222173-internet-solutions-for-sale-sources.html
CI might not be perfect but at least they're willing to come here and explain whats going on and to their credit explain what they're doing to try and fix it. I don't see a single other ISP doing this. Transparency goes a long way in this community, its why most people are willing to over look faults and issues if they are explained sufficiently. This transparency is probably why you're fixed on CI and not the likes of web africa or mweb or afrihost.
At the end of the day if you are looking for a first world internet experience you won't find it in SA. Even if our networks were somehow superior to the US and EU the simple fact is most of the servers for services we use aren't hosted locally so we will always have a degraded experience in some way or form.
P.S Huge props for the work you've done in this thread. Hope you don't mind I'm going to be referring to this thread a lot in the future.
I always gravitate towards an ISP which communicates with its customers, and tries to be as transparent as possible.
A few years ago the senior-most network engineer for VOX used to frequent the MyBB forums, and was in constant communication with members in the VOX feedback thread. He explained issues, outages, worked with people to iron out issues, improve pings, fix broken shaping / prioritisation rules, etc. Unfortunately, he left the company and the country, but I think he is still largely responsible for VOX's rock steady network.
PBCool seems to be on a similar path, which can only result in good things.
A few years ago the senior-most network engineer for VOX used to frequent the MyBB forums, and was in constant communication with members in the VOX feedback thread. He explained issues, outages, worked with people to iron out issues, improve pings, fix broken shaping / prioritisation rules, etc. Unfortunately, he left the company and the country, but I think he is still largely responsible for VOX's rock steady network.
PBCool seems to be on a similar path, which can only result in good things.