Drop in Lithium battery replacement for alarm system

[Mirai]

I first noticed the about turn from Blue Nova , claiming that the batteries are not designed for alarms and gates. In fact the frequent activation of the bms protections is considered abuse and improper usage, then I noted my alarm system distributors started adding multiple disclaimers to the use of lithium batteries in alarms, and then centurion issued its notice about deploying lithium batteries in its motors.

It was just a foreseeable matter of time.

Mobile Power Series | BlueNova

Our Mobile Power Series (MPS) range is perfectly positioned as a drop-in replacement for Lead Acid batteries, giving you a high-quality, light and ultra-reliable solution for your home, vehicle use (excluding cranking applications), outdoor and security. All MPS batteries feature an integrated...

www.bluenova.co.za

Our Mobile Power Series (MPS) range is perfectly positioned as a drop-in replacement for Lead Acid batteries, giving you a high-quality, light and ultra-reliable solution for your home, vehicle use (excluding cranking applications), outdoor and security. All MPS batteries feature an integrated Battery Management System, are IP56 water and dust resistant and are highly durable.

 

[BrandonJ]

Mobile Power Series | BlueNova

Our Mobile Power Series (MPS) range is perfectly positioned as a drop-in replacement for Lead Acid batteries, giving you a high-quality, light and ultra-reliable solution for your home, vehicle use (excluding cranking applications), outdoor and security. All MPS batteries feature an integrated...

www.bluenova.co.za

Our Mobile Power Series (MPS) range is perfectly positioned as a drop-in replacement for Lead Acid batteries, giving you a high-quality, light and ultra-reliable solution for your home, vehicle use (excluding cranking applications), outdoor and security. All MPS batteries feature an integrated Battery Management System, are IP56 water and dust resistant and are highly durable.

If you give them a call they will clarify that drop-in replacement means simply the form factor or size, but they will explain to you why a LifePo4 battery is not suitable for gate motors or alarm systems.

But of course there are many users here who will report that they have been very happy with drop in replacements -

There are growing numbers though who won't - alarm systems activating, and issuing low battery warnings when the batteries are still more than 50% SOC, batterys shutting down due to BMS protection activation. Most manufacturers are going to consider frequent BMS protection activation as misues and abuse, and for that reason will not honour warranties on the batteries.

 

[BrandonJ]

So if these 7Ah Lifepo4 batteries are not to be used in gate motors or alarms or garage door motors or UPS then where exactly are they all being installed?

They are being used in solar power systems, marine applications, hybrid and off grid inverter systems and any other application with smooth discharge cycles.

 

[hilton]

They are being used in solar power systems, marine applications, hybrid and off grid inverter systems and any other application with smooth discharge cycles.

Thank you!

 

[3Gee]

My 12V 8ah Gel lasted about 2.5 years of loadshedding. Not bad since we also had frequent multi-day power outages. Those 7ah are really cheap LA batteries and are only there to provide an occasional backup for a few hours.

I also set my Paradox to charge at 850ma via the keypad. It's easy enough if you have the installer code and download the programming manual. You just enter the code for the charging setting and then change the specific bit to 1 or 0.

What is the default charge setting ?

 

[BrandonJ]

What is the default charge setting ?

If the units charging at 0.85a and the battery is lasting 2.5 years, then the load on the panel is well within the criteria that won't discharge the battery below 50% , and consumption is low enough to recharge in 6 hours.

If one focuses on those criteria and calculations, you don't need expensive lithium batteries.

 

[Kosmik]

What is the default charge setting ?

Half normally.

350mA/700mA

 

[billy786]

Nah they are saying it should be used with a proper charger for lithuim vs the sla chargers. But also many are fine. I still think there's some drain on that battery as I have the same panel and it works fine but mine is heavily wireless so very light draw save for the radio. There is something draining his battery.

@billy786 you can try increase your charge current via babyware but that won't help your discharge rate. From what I read, besides the fact of the higher discharge and recovery, the one thing that a lithuim does NOT do well in, is a sustained HIGH ampage out. SLA's are superior in that. I assume that's because these are LiFe based vs LiPO as Lipo are built for massive discharge.

I got a different brand of lithium battery (it is also less capacity) and it works fine with my alarm so not sure why the first brand I tried didn't work in my alarm.

 

[Kosmik]

I got a different brand of lithium battery (it is also less capacity) and it works fine with my alarm so not sure why the first brand I tried didn't work in my alarm.

The bms may not like the system. I have a vestwood in mine.

 

[Bliksis]

Well, I've got a Securiprod Lifepo4 on my alarm, it's been working great for 6 months. I guess time will really tell.

 

[Kosmik]

If you give them a call they will clarify that drop-in replacement means simply the form factor or size, but they will explain to you why a LifePo4 battery is not suitable for gate motors or alarm systems.

But of course there are many users here who will report that they have been very happy with drop in replacements -

There are growing numbers though who won't - alarm systems activating, and issuing low battery warnings when the batteries are still more than 50% SOC, batterys shutting down due to BMS protection activation. Most manufacturers are going to consider frequent BMS protection activation as misues and abuse, and for that reason will not honour warranties on the batteries.

I haven't seen anything regarding the companies and comms around the batteries, got any links?

 

[eddief1]

Ye odd reading about these drop in replacements not being recommended for alarms

I got a blue nova in a dsc system since 2021

Anyone got some links or a more technical explanation?

 

[Kosmik]

Ye odd reading about these drop in replacements not being recommended for alarms

I got a blue nova in a dsc system since 2021

Anyone got some links or a more technical explanation?

Nothing I could find besides charging concerns and bms of which most handle. For gates or motors, the issue is sustained high current discharge which is why there are disclaimers around use in those scenarios.

 

[Nemesys]

Nothing I could find besides charging concerns and bms of which most handle. For gates or motors, the issue is sustained high current discharge which is why there are disclaimers around use in those scenarios.

I have been using two lifepod4 lithium batteries in parallel to double the capacity to 14ah for the past 6 months with no problem. The supplier stated that the batteries are suitable for parallel but not in series connection and that it could be charged using the alarm/gate motor charging system. The only problem is that I had to move it outside the alarm box.

 

[Kosmik]

I have been using two lifepod4 lithium batteries in parallel to double the capacity to 14ah for the past 6 monthsView attachment 1476245 with no problem. The supplier stated that the batteries are suitable for parallel but not in series connection and that it could be charged using the alarm/gate motor charging system. The only problem is that I had to move it outside the alarm box.

With a trickle charger those will take a while to charge. A suggestion was to hook them up to a separate charger, especially with parallels. You are effectively spreading the drain but by the same token, spreading the charge.

 

[hilton]

Does one need to disable the alarm power supply?

 

[Nemesys]

I upgraded the transformer to the higher spec recommended for my alarm system and it took a few days for the batteries to reach full charge it has stabilized and even during the 4 hours on/4 hour off period during stage 6 It managed to keep the batteries at an acceptable charge.

 

[Kosmik]

I upgraded the transformer to the higher spec recommended for my alarm system and it took a few days for the batteries to reach full charge it has stabilized and even during the 4 hours on/4 hour off period during stage 6 It managed to keep the batteries at an acceptable charge.

Does the transformer charge the batteries or the panel? Mine is passed through the panel.

 

[Nemesys]

Does the transformer charge the batteries or the panel? Mine is passed through the panel.

It does pass through the panel, but when the alarm got fried by a lightning strike, they never replaced the transformer. So I was sitting with a transformer originally paired with an old FBI alarm system which could not cope with keeping the battery fully charged.

 

[Kosmik]

It does pass through the panel, but when the alarm got fried by a lightning strike, they never replaced the transformer. So I was sitting with a transformer originally paired with an old FBI alarm system which could not cope with keeping the battery fully charged.

Ok , I was just saying because my panel sets the charge rate on mine so regardless of increasing the transformer, it would be limited by that.