Eskom - BEE to blame

DJStealth said:
I see a major problem when you tell the cornerstone of your economy (gold mines) that electricity supply is a luxury. Wouldnt you agree?

The arguement here is that steady supply of electricity has never been a problem until now. When you look at the reasons as to why it is a problem, you realise that government having been forewarned did not act and really screwed things up for us.

We in SA love the blame game - its a pity it never ends up pointing the finger in the right direction though. Blaming (or part blaming) the mines is illogical. They had no direct or indirect influence over electricity supply in SA so they are certainly not part of the problem.

And blaming the old govt as some have here is also illogical. I get upset about those accusations not because I supported what they did, but because it is the constant scapegoat for those who dont understand that the current govt is responsible for what happened post 1994. That was 14 years ago!
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I agree with you :-P I was proving a point about how ludicrous it was to blame apartheid for all the failings.
 
@ mechristian (this is a post from my "brainwashed" business partner) - if change, transformation and a happy South Africa is what you are after, then your statements made here are contrary to what you are striving for. By blaming the old govt, you ensure that there is no accountability for the current govts actions. Your blind support is merely going to led you down the wrong path.

However if you truly were striving for the aforementioned points, then you would hold accountable those who are responsible, and make up your own mind instead of allowing it to be made up for you by propoganda. You would take advice and opinion from a wide group of people, not just your brothers promoting a lack of accountability for our current govt. I voted ANC in 1994. Having seen what is going on around me, I believe that they are not fit to run this govt anymore though. I also believe that 15 years is enough time to facilitate change and BEE and AA have only been detrimental to my businesses. My overheads are up and I have a team of HR lawyers working around the clock constantly firing a group of individuals like yourself, who believe that money is their right and it is my privelige to have them pretend to work for me.

I dont know why you feel so much hatred towards whites in our country because as my friend Stealth has already said, this only promotes the divide amongst blacks and whites and fuels racism in both directions. AA starts from the roots up. In my opinion, the biggest failure from our government has been the lack of a decent education amongst the blacks from a poorer background. This issue would solve much of our crime problems and would ensure that AA is not necessary.

Whites I have found are mostly not racist to blacks, they are racist towards incompetence. Our govt hasnt helped this much by promoting incompetent people into senior positions above the whites - just because they are black.

Please brother, listen and learn - think for yourself and make up your own mind thereafter. Thats all I have to say.
 
DJStealth said:
I dont know why you feel so much hatred towards whites in our country because as my friend Stealth has already said, this only promotes the divide amongst blacks and whites and fuels racism in both directions. AA starts from the roots up. In my opinion, the biggest failure from our government has been the lack of a decent education amongst the blacks from a poorer background. This issue would solve much of our crime problems and would ensure that AA is not necessary.

Whites I have found are mostly not racist to blacks, they are racist towards incompetence. Our govt hasnt helped this much by promoting incompetent people into senior positions above the whites - just because they are black.

Please brother, listen and learn - think for yourself and make up your own mind thereafter. Thats all I have to say.
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And an even bigger failure is the lack of accountability and reason for this situation.
 
Ricard said:
oi! play the ball, not the people :D its uncalled for.
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Trolls never play the ball - they barely even grasp the rules of the game they are playing.
On the flip side, it is easy to play the man, as you just need yell abuse and flash the race card - and, even "better", the same "tactic" works equally well in all debates.
 
DJStealth said:
BEE and AA have helped our country diddly squat because neither were implemented correctly. As a BEE compliant business owner, I can assure you that 5/10 non white appointments that we make are based on compliance and not ability. That person is trained for a considerably long time before they are handed responsibility. They also dont know that their appointments were based on colour and not ability, therefore they would argue just like you are at the moment about the merits of AA. They wouldnt however blame the old government of 14 years ago now for the mistakes of the current regime - they are much smarter than that. My black business partner is sitting next to me reading this and reckons you are what is wrong with South Africa - too many black people being brainwashed by what they hear on local radio, in church and in the townships etc and then spurting black on white racism back into our country. He also reckons racial power like AA and BEE makes you racist as evidenced by apartheid, and believes that our current regime has let power get to its head - read into that what you like..
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Thank you for that. In all fairness I agree that there are people who really want to make a difference. :)

But the overall picture I get is that AA and BEE does not work - and this might be simply because the bad cases are much more exposed to public scrutiny than the good cases. (IMHO)

I don't have any problems working for a BEE manager if he/she usese sound business and financial sense to run his/her business, and is also fair and just.

But for those who want to enrich themselves at the expense of the poor and their workers - forget it.
 
mechristian said:
You already brainwashed your partner. Shame he must be one of those benefiting to much from your mutual relationship or is it one of those thousands of front cases?
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Actually the fact that a black and white man can be friends and share an opinion doesnt mean anything of the sorts. In fact it merely shows that transformation and acceptance is hapening in SA. Unlike the racism that you promote...
 
Calling you a troll was deserved the minute you started hurling abuse. Which you did in post #31 of this thread.
 
The_Librarian said:
Thank you for that. In all fairness I agree that there are people who really want to make a difference. :)

But the overall picture I get is that AA and BEE does not work - and this might be simply because the bad cases are much more exposed to public scrutiny than the good cases. (IMHO)

I don't have any problems working for a BEE manager if he/she usese sound business and financial sense to run his/her business, and is also fair and just.

But for those who want to enrich themselves at the expense of the poor and their workers - forget it.
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BEE and AA work, in theory. Unfortunately they are ideal cases in a perfect situation. Since AA and BEE have been abused by the same people that put them in place they have lost all credibility and have become the scape goat in many instances (not all founded, but with the good, the bad I guess).
 
Some info on AA from now.org:
Under the law as written in Executive Orders and interpreted by the courts, anyone benefiting from affirmative action must have relevant and valid job or educational qualifications.
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This is in the US, where it originated from, and where it is used to help 10% of the population, and not 90%. The AA applicant must still have the experience/qualifications to do the job, when applying for it. Unfortunately, that is not always the case here.

Off topic I know, but thought it might help to understand why it does not work for our situation completely or effectively.
 
You have all been conned by this WUM. For shame.

Let it be now.
 
mechristian said:
I am as much allowed to air my opinions as you are. Apparently you still live in the luxurious past and complain about some small hardships that’s coming your way now, like perceived crime and lack of waste-able power. You so easily forget: millions under oppression for many years in the past endured these so called hardships, as you define it, in its worst format. Just say goodbye to that cozy protected lifestyle. It will end sooner than you can say eZuma.
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sorry mechristian,

Your views are appreciated - but you seem to be on the path of 'revenge' . Try improving your own situation instead of looking at every else with distrust that you perceive better than yourself. I admire you for your loyalty 'to the party' but spreading hate and disinformation doesnt help anything. ESKOM have said BEE is a problem, is eskoms word not good enough for you? or do you have to find the conspiracy against yourself to 'keep the masses in the dark' (for a lack of words)

To assume whites didnt have hardships just shows your lack of education and general knowledge (I can fault that on apartheid... IF you are older than 21yrs old)

under 21yrs old African people DONT have the luxury of using apartheid as an excuse. The 'opression' and 'apartheid' excuses are waring thin.. you are familliar with the story about 'the boy who cried wolf'?

After apartheid, whats the next excuse? .. Oppression/Apartheid is a convenient and easy excuse to use for the ill-educated masses... since they dont know better... and your attitude shows this... unwilling to LEARN from history and MOVE FORWARD .. we are all in the same boat, and your calls to 'cut off the affluent' areas that abuse power shows your hatred for people with more materialistic things.

Go find out if Zuma/Mbeki/ANY government area has ever been load-shedded... and then tell me WHO is abusing power.

Please, find a release for your hatred - it will eat you alive.
 
mechristian said:
I have read some of your post and yes lately you are one of the most frequent anti government trolls here. That's why you think everyone else is!
So much for your definition of trollish. Berserk is the right one for you.
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In any worthy and modern democracy it is the right of the people, and even the duty, to criticise the leaders that have been put into power. Unless you wish South Africa to degenerate into the chaos that plagues most of Africa where the citizens are too scared to criticise their government.

In fact, THERE IS NOTHING WRONG with challenging the policies of a government. Its what defines democracy. Its what your father and grandfather fought and struggled all those years for. Now you have it, don't waste it and most certainly don't abuse it.
 
mechristian said:
I have read some of your post and yes lately you are one of the most frequent anti government trolls here. That's why you think everyone else is!
So much for your definition of trollish. Berserk is the right one for you.
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Amazing how you have lost that "boyz in da hood" language, and begun to speak more intelligently.
More evidence that your initial posts were nothing other than trolling and hate-mongering.

Anyways, I am ENTITLED to speak out against the government - it is what democracy allows and what democracy is about.

On the other hand, hurling abuse at people that disagree with you, as you have done, is not.

Try and argue the points.
 
Here is a typical example of what the hell is wrong in our country. People continue to blame apartheid for everything. (Hello wake up and smell the facts); the only damn apartheid left is when you can't get a job cause you are white.

Sitting there on your backside, being racist and saying how its the previous goverments fault about Eskom is going to do nothing. Why don't you wake up, and the rest of people; who live in the past and do something about the present.
Incase you do not know your history, ESKOM TOLD THE ANC IN 1998 WE WILL NEED MORE POWER STATIONS. What did the AND do? THEY IGNORED IT! How the hell is that the previous goverments fault?
If you think life is so great now, well enjoy cause at this rate, we will be no better than the rest of africa. Don't worry in 10 years there will be no power produced, so none will be able to be abused.
 
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Linoman said:
Sitting there on your backside, being racist and saying how its the previous goverments fault about Eskom is going to do nothing. Why don't you wake up, and the rest of people; who live in the past and do something about the present.
Incase you do not know your history, ESKOM TOLD THE ANC IN 1998 WE WILL NEED MORE POWER STATIONS. What did the AND do? THEY IGNORED IT! How the hell is that the previous goverments fault?
If you think life is so great now, well enjoy cause at this rate, we will be no better than the rest of africa. Don't worry in 10 years there will be no power produced, so none will be able to be abused.
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True, blaming Apartheid is not going to fix the problem or make it go away. Just as Dr Onyeani states that Africans must stop blaming their problems on Colonialism/Slavery/Apartheid and asking the world for hand outs. Until they can rely on themselves to fix their own problems they will never be truly free.
 
timgaul said:
True, blaming Apartheid is not going to fix the problem or make it go away. Just as Dr Onyeani states that Africans must stop blaming their problems on Colonialism/Slavery/Apartheid and asking the world for hand outs. Until they can rely on themselves to fix their own problems they will never be truly free.
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I could not have phrased that better myself. :D

As to everyone else, just ignore the guy whos looking for attention:cool:
 
timgaul said:
True, blaming Apartheid is not going to fix the problem or make it go away. Just as Dr Onyeani states that Africans must stop blaming their problems on Colonialism/Slavery/Apartheid and asking the world for hand outs. Until they can rely on themselves to fix their own problems they will never be truly free.
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But it's much easier sitting in poverty and ask for handouts than go to work...

Or am I mistaken?

Another example where our esteemed government failed - there are people out there who want to work, but they are hampered by education, not enough open vacancies or their circumstances.
 
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