eToll facts from JPSA

qwertydudeza said:
If people think the system will collapse, think again. the Government will throw TAXPAYERS money at it. Thinking the system _WILL_ collapse is no guarantee.
<SNIP>
Hey if the system is scrapped the eTag will be in the bin, but right now, using the system daily, I like the min cost of R450/month please
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According to SCAMRAL, 1% of users will hit the R450 limit - just like you.
I advise the 1% to register, the rest to us will pay when we get a bill.

According to OUTA research, 15% have registered - I suspect SCAMRAL will need more like 80-90% compliancy to pay back the system.

You seem to miss the point, that a R6.8b project cost R20b, and the collection is extremely inefficient.
If a petrol levy had been implemented the R6.8b would already have been collected.
People are not happy at these gross rip-offs.
 
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Some of the terms are really silly. My neighbour leaves for the the Northern Cape tomorrow and will be back by the end of the month. If I understand the article right he can't buy two day passes? And why on earth must he stop at an office? He's not going to waste his time to stop at one, so Sanral will have even more admin to do, and it is unlikely that he will pay anyway.

Whoever thought up this system and terms and conditions are a few beers short of a 6-pack.
 
qwertydudeza said:
If people think the system will collapse, think again. the Government will throw money at it. Thinking the system _WILL_ collapse is no guarantee.
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I think this is a very naive look on things and shows a complete lack of understanding of global economy. Although the government might (and probably will) bail out Sanral (considering that state-pension funds are tied up in tolling, it would be disastrous if no bailout would happen) but this has far-reaching consequences.

Moodys has for example downgraded Sanral for the 4th time in less than two years (29th Feb 2012, 4th May 2012, 6th September 2013, 6th December 2013). With the downgrade in September 2013, Sanral required R1,5bn within the next 3 months to sustain operations - as you can imagine, those funds would have not originated from toll-collection and would have seriously eaten into cash-flow.

Sanral still has the obligation to balance books and adhere to budgets and funds provided and is not able to simply shift line-items to compensate for the lack of income from e-tolls. Sanral's debt stock is currently projected to rise to almost R40bn by March 2014 which also includes the R5,1bn Sanral borrowed in 2013 to sustain the cash flow problems due to the absent e-toll revenue.

Although Sanral is a public company, it is wholly owned by the government with the minister of transport representing the government as the sole shareholder - the interesting (and also the catch22) part is that should Sanral not turn things around in the next 2 months, it will receive another downgrade which will ultimately lead to downgrade of the SA economic indicators and would then have far reaching consequences for the economy.

From Moody's it becomes clear, that holding off on payments for another 2-3 months will be enough to have Sanral start to collapse - so we are not far away from this goal:
--RATIONALE FOR THE NEGATIVE OUTLOOK --

The negative outlook incorporates the operational risks associated with e-toll collection, given the limited track record of the newly established method of collection, enshrined in the Transport and Related Matters Amendment Bill which is aimed at enhancing SANRAL's capacity to enforce payment of e-tolling fees. SANRAL's outlook also mirrors the negative outlook on South Africa's sovereign rating.

WHAT COULD CHANGE THE RATING UP/DOWN

An upgrade or stabilisation of the outlook will require evidence of SANRAL's capacity to realize adequate cash flows from its e-tolling operations. A structural improvement in the company's financial position, leading to lower than anticipated borrowing needs, could also apply upward pressure.
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The failure and incompetence in most governmental departments would serve as a good example which hopefully means that e-trolling would go the same way.
 
MagicDude4Eva said:
I think this is a very naive look on things and shows a complete lack of understanding of global economy. Although the government might (and probably will) bail out Sanral (considering that state-pension funds are tied up in tolling, it would be disastrous if no bailout would happen) but this has far-reaching consequences.

Moodys has for example downgraded Sanral for the 4th time in less than two years (29th Feb 2012, 4th May 2012, 6th September 2013, 6th December 2013). With the downgrade in September 2013, Sanral required R1,5bn within the next 3 months to sustain operations - as you can imagine, those funds would have not originated from toll-collection and would have seriously eaten into cash-flow.

Sanral still has the obligation to balance books and adhere to budgets and funds provided and is not able to simply shift line-items to compensate for the lack of income from e-tolls. Sanral's debt stock is currently projected to rise to almost R40bn by March 2014 which also includes the R5,1bn Sanral borrowed in 2013 to sustain the cash flow problems due to the absent e-toll revenue.

Although Sanral is a public company, it is wholly owned by the government with the minister of transport representing the government as the sole shareholder - the interesting (and also the catch22) part is that should Sanral not turn things around in the next 2 months, it will receive another downgrade which will ultimately lead to downgrade of the SA economic indicators and would then have far reaching consequences for the economy.

From Moody's it becomes clear, that holding off on payments for another 2-3 months will be enough to have Sanral start to collapse - so we are not far away from this goal:
Click to expand...

We need something more .. like a million man march against e-tolling or something.

Despite individuals standing fast against e-tolling, people still hasn't learned the power of mass action.
 
Allin said:
Some of the terms are really silly. My neighbour leaves for the the Northern Cape tomorrow and will be back by the end of the month. If I understand the article right he can't buy two day passes? And why on earth must he stop at an office? He's not going to waste his time to stop at one, so Sanral will have even more admin to do, and it is unlikely that he will pay anyway.

Whoever thought up this system and terms and conditions are a few beers short of a 6-pack.
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This ^

Not sure why the stupid restrictions on the day pass, after all, they could earn R1500 per month if someone uses this every day ?

Why not let people take out as many day passes as they like ?
 
system32 said:
According to SCAMRAL, 1% of users will hit the R450 limit - just like you.
I advise the 1% to register, the rest to us will pay when we get a bill.

According to OUTA research, 15% have registered - I suspect SCAMRAL will need more like 80-90% compliancy to pay back the system.

You seem to miss the point, that a R6.8b project cost R20b, and the collection is extremely inefficient.
If a petrol levy had been implemented the R6.8b would already have been collected.
People are not happy at these gross rip-offs.
Click to expand...

No dispute the system is inefficient, it is a system that is in place in my large cities around the world and not unique to SA.

Re the 1% hitting for R450, is not simple. Many more people will be over R450, it is only 1% of eTagged users.
As per my original post in this thread. R450 works out to just under R900/month if you pay within the 7 days grace period but not tagged. That climbs to about R1200 if you wait for the invoice. SANRAL are saying in their 1% stat hit the capping, others may be say R400/month on a eTag which is still R800 with 7 day grace registered user and over R1000 as unregistered user. SANRAL should hope for people not getting tagged so they make more money....
 
MagicDude4Eva said:
I think this is a very naive look on things and shows a complete lack of understanding of global economy. Although the government might (and probably will) bail out Sanral (considering that state-pension funds are tied up in tolling, it would be disastrous if no bailout would happen) but this has far-reaching consequences.

Moodys has for example downgraded Sanral for the 4th time in less than two years (29th Feb 2012, 4th May 2012, 6th September 2013, 6th December 2013). With the downgrade in September 2013, Sanral required R1,5bn within the next 3 months to sustain operations - as you can imagine, those funds would have not originated from toll-collection and would have seriously eaten into cash-flow.

Sanral still has the obligation to balance books and adhere to budgets and funds provided and is not able to simply shift line-items to compensate for the lack of income from e-tolls. Sanral's debt stock is currently projected to rise to almost R40bn by March 2014 which also includes the R5,1bn Sanral borrowed in 2013 to sustain the cash flow problems due to the absent e-toll revenue.

Although Sanral is a public company, it is wholly owned by the government with the minister of transport representing the government as the sole shareholder - the interesting (and also the catch22) part is that should Sanral not turn things around in the next 2 months, it will receive another downgrade which will ultimately lead to downgrade of the SA economic indicators and would then have far reaching consequences for the economy.

From Moody's it becomes clear, that holding off on payments for another 2-3 months will be enough to have Sanral start to collapse - so we are not far away from this goal:
Click to expand...

That is my point, SANRAL can't collapse the government won't allow it (or can't). The other debt is serviced from other Toll roads, so it is not that R40bn is not unserviced. only the Gauteng Freeway part.
 
Tracer said:
I agree.

Last year I was with a large client in the insurance industry who offered their employees to assist in the registration of e-tags. About 250 employees got tagged in Johannesburg and Pretoria.

I just left and a day later got my own tag as I use these roads on a daily basis. I then realized that there will eventually only be a small number of people standing together against the system.
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The problem is, how many people here moaning are regular users of the roads?
Once the bill and balance start climbing and people realise they in to pay, and how expensive it is without a eTag, we don't have a choice. There will be the few big mouths who will actually go to court, but once the summons is issued 99% of people will pay.
 
Feck, seems to me there is no end to this brainless troll idiot Visser?
 
qwertydudeza said:
No dispute the system is inefficient, it is a system that is in place in my large cities around the world and not unique to SA.

Re the 1% hitting for R450, is not simple. Many more people will be over R450, it is only 1% of eTagged users.
As per my original post in this thread. R450 works out to just under R900/month if you pay within the 7 days grace period but not tagged. That climbs to about R1200 if you wait for the invoice. SANRAL are saying in their 1% stat hit the capping, others may be say R400/month on a eTag which is still R800 with 7 day grace registered user and over R1000 as unregistered user. SANRAL should hope for people not getting tagged so they make more money....
Click to expand...

I'm probably going to be sorry, but here goes anyway....

qwerty, if its so beneficial to them, then why is SANRAL so hellbent on getting people to get eTags?

Maybe 'cos once you have a tag, you're basically dead in the water from a billing perspective - the onus shifts from them proving that you used the road in order to get money from you, to you trying to get money back from them when they 'mistakenly' deduct the amount from your account, or your money never gets credited to your account, etc.

No thanks
 
Jola said:
I guess that is it - no other rational explanation !
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Yup - I can't think of one.

After all, a day pass is more expensive, why can't you have more than 12 per year?

The way SANRAL figures it, people will think, "ag, too much effort for a day pass, might as well just get a tag, put 50 bucks on it and then I don't have to worry", except of course that once they have you tagged that's it - you've agreed to their T&C's - no complaints and crying will help you after that happens.
 
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