eToll facts from JPSA

The bottom line is that this system is an unworkable, unfair mess.

Judging by widespread reports here, on Hellopeter, News24, IOL, etc etc the following complaints are common:

1. Being billed for vehicles you no longer own.
2. Being billed even though you don't even live in the province and/or haven't used the freeway at all.
3. Deposited (prepaid) money not showing up on accounts.
4. Payments not being reflected.
5. E-Tagged users still getting VPC notifications and billed full penalty rate.
6. Outrageous charges for non-registered users - R3000 per month for daily use.
7. Virtually impossible for non-registered users to pay.
8. E-tagged users getting billed large amounts despite the R450 cap.
9. Complete inability of SANRAL to provide VAT invoices on demand even at their outlets.
10. No reasonable way of voluntarily paying within 7 days.

This is such an abortion I can't see how any sane judge will rule in favour of SANRAL.
 
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garp said:
The bottom line is that this system is an unworkable, unfair mess.

Judging by widespread reports here, on Hellopeter, News24, IOL, etc etc the following complaints are common:

1. Being billed for vehicles you no longer own.
2. Being billed even though you don't even live in the province and/or haven't used the freeway at all.
3. Deposited (prepaid) money not showing up on accounts.
4. Payments not being reflected.
5. E-Tagged users still getting VPC notifications and billed full penalty rate.
6. Outrageous charges for non-registered users - R3000 per month for daily use.
7. Virtually impossible for non-registered users to pay.
8. E-tagged users getting billed large amounts despite the R450 cap.
9. Complete inability of SANRAL to provide VAT invoices on demand even at their outlets.
10. No reasonable way of voluntarily paying within 7 days.

This is such an abortion I can't see how any sane judge will rule in favour of SANRAL.
Click to expand...

Hence the very good advice to stay the hell away from an eTag even if you do believe in the "pay as you use principle"
 
once you have a e-tag "they" have you by the crown jewels.
 
AfricanTech said:
I'm probably going to be sorry, but here goes anyway....

qwerty, if its so beneficial to them, then why is SANRAL so hellbent on getting people to get eTags?

Maybe 'cos once you have a tag, you're basically dead in the water from a billing perspective - the onus shifts from them proving that you used the road in order to get money from you, to you trying to get money back from them when they 'mistakenly' deduct the amount from your account, or your money never gets credited to your account, etc.

No thanks
Click to expand...

SANRAL can answer that question.

Unless someone is meddling, a tag is more reliable than a number plate auto detection

There is always an answer to the question. The SANRAL eToll site has lots of details on usage etc.
 
garp said:
The bottom line is that this system is an unworkable, unfair mess.

Judging by widespread reports here, on Hellopeter, News24, IOL, etc etc the following complaints are common:

1. Being billed for vehicles you no longer own.
2. Being billed even though you don't even live in the province and/or haven't used the freeway at all.
3. Deposited (prepaid) money not showing up on accounts.
4. Payments not being reflected.
5. E-Tagged users still getting VPC notifications and billed full penalty rate.
6. Outrageous charges for non-registered users - R3000 per month for daily use.
7. Virtually impossible for non-registered users to pay.
8. E-tagged users getting billed large amounts despite the R450 cap.
9. Complete inability of SANRAL to provide VAT invoices on demand even at their outlets.
10. No reasonable way of voluntarily paying within 7 days.

This is such an abortion I can't see how any sane judge will rule in favour of SANRAL.
Click to expand...

With any system there will be an issue. no denying that, are they a minority, probably

The fraud of people to crook the system, like cloning number plates is going to be rife

#3 & #4 can't see the problem,
#5 Do they have money on their tag?
#6 That is my point, daily usage is forcing us to etag up and get the R450 cap
#7 well privacy people made sure of that, anyone could see anyone else's usage.
#8 is that a once off. You need to have funds in your account for the cap to apply
#9 They are online for Registered users. Sounds like people are getting theirs in the post now
#10 Pay online or at a eToll place, which is along the routes.
 
qwertydudeza said:
The invoice may be true, but the discounts fade away after 7 days of grace.
Also only eTag users get the R450 cap/month

The point is you either are going to pay, then pay the cheapest price possible which is eTag, so, with eTag it will be say R100, after 7 days it will R192.31 and invoice it will be R230.77 within 30 days. Time you get to court R576.92. There is no case to plee in court, if you used it you must pay. If you goto court there is also the R1000 fine, so you looking at R100 becoming R1576.92

If people think the system will collapse, think again. the Government will throw money at it. Thinking the system _WILL_ collapse is no guarantee.

If you are regular user then it will be easy to run over R1000/month bill, escalate of non or delayed payments and it will be very expensive.

So agree to terms and conditions of payment just means to agree to pay which the law requires anyway, so what is the point of deny it???

No I am not a SANRAL person, just someone who cares about my monthly costs and minimize them.

Hey if the system is scrapped the eTag will be in the bin, but right now, using the system daily, I like the min cost of R450/month please
Click to expand...

So just to blow your entire argument completely out of the water (not that there really was ever a valid argument in the first place, but what ever) since the price increases on E-Toll are capped at CPI, the most effective way to increase revenue for SANRAL once people are tagged would be to just get rid of the R450 cap. What would stop them from doing this? What will your argument be once that limit increases to R 1000, or R 2000 in a year or so?

SANRAL's sole mission is to make money right now, and the only way they can do that is with an e-tag, due to the fact that it will probably cost them more to chase after a non-paying user than they would receive in revenue (fines and other random fees included). Their behaviour is completely indicative of this. By not registering, I may (potentially, if they actually manage to make me pay) be costing myself more cash, but ultimately, I am making sure that SANRAL bleeds money chasing after me for payment which will (hopefully) eventually lead to the downfall of the system.
 
qwertydudeza said:
With any system there will be an issue. no denying that, are they a minority, probably

The fraud of people to crook the system, like cloning number plates is going to be rife

#3 & #4 can't see the problem,
#5 Do they have money on their tag?
#6 That is my point, daily usage is forcing us to etag up and get the R450 cap
#7 well privacy people made sure of that, anyone could see anyone else's usage.
#8 is that a once off. You need to have funds in your account for the cap to apply
#9 They are online for Registered users. Sounds like people are getting theirs in the post now
#10 Pay online or at a eToll place, which is along the routes.
Click to expand...

OMG! You ARE House. I thought maybe people where exaggerating. Welcome to my ignore list...
 
qwertydudeza said:
With any system there will be an issue. no denying that, are they a minority, probably

The fraud of people to crook the system, like cloning number plates is going to be rife

#3 & #4 can't see the problem,
#5 Do they have money on their tag?
#6 That is my point, daily usage is forcing us to etag up and get the R450 cap
#7 well privacy people made sure of that, anyone could see anyone else's usage.
#8 is that a once off. You need to have funds in your account for the cap to apply
#9 They are online for Registered users. Sounds like people are getting theirs in the post now
#10 Pay online or at a eToll place, which is along the routes.
Click to expand...


#3 & #4 - you don't have a problem with them not transferring the money into your account or it being taken off properly - must be very rich fella
#5 - shouldn't matter - tag = 450 cap - bill the tag to the cap limit - if person doesn't pay, then pursue them for the rest
#6 - very clever - not defined as interest therefore it appears the Usury provisions do not apply
#7 - no, poor implementation and weak security saw to that not privacy people
#8 - why? a cap is a cap? when you buy a etag you agree fully to the T&C's so they have you are legally tied down anyway
#9 - to be registered, you have to agree to onerous, unpalatable T&C's
 
supersunbird said:
OMG! You ARE House. I thought maybe people where exaggerating. Welcome to my ignore list...
Click to expand...

Did you ever think otherwise? Looking at his FB page he has no friends! What a desperate and [-]lonely[/-]loonyl [-]shill[/-]troll Rian and all his clones are!
 
qwertydudeza said:
#3 & #4 can't see the problem,
Click to expand...
You can't see the problem with prepaid money not showing on your balance, and payments not reflecting on your account?

qwertydudeza said:
#5 Do they have money on their tag?
Click to expand...
Apparently they did, at least on the HelloPeter complaints.

qwertydudeza said:
#6 That is my point, daily usage is forcing us to etag up and get the R450 cap
Click to expand...
This is illegal in terms of the CPA. You cannot charge one class of customer R450 and another R3000 for the same service.

qwertydudeza said:
#7 well privacy people made sure of that, anyone could see anyone else's usage.
Click to expand...
And why would simply entering a registration number and paying an amount via credit card affect anyone's privacy?

qwertydudeza said:
#8 is that a once off. You need to have funds in your account for the cap to apply
Click to expand...
Complainants claim they have funds.

qwertydudeza said:
#9 They are online for Registered users. Sounds like people are getting theirs in the post now
Click to expand...
Yes, but not in time for the ridiculous 7 day limit.

qwertydudeza said:
#10 Pay online or at a eToll place, which is along the routes.
Click to expand...
You cannot pay online if you are not registered.
 
supersunbird said:
OMG! You ARE House. I thought maybe people where exaggerating. Welcome to my ignore list...
Click to expand...

The pro-SCAMRAL troll makes it really easy to identify its latest clone username and you only need to read the most recent of its clone's posts: step 1 is to look at the username with the most posts in an CoJ/SCAMRAL/etrolling thread, step 2 read the latest post made using that username to confirm the pro-CoJ / pro-SCAMRAL / pro-etrolling stance, and there you have it, easy peasy.
 
AfricanTech said:
Hence the very good advice to stay the hell away from an eTag even if you do believe in the "pay as you use principle"
Click to expand...
Can I just rant for a second and state again that the monthly cap breaks the whole user pays principle. A person from Pretoria who works off William Nicol and another person from Pretoria who works in Alberton will both pay R450/month for their daily commute; regardless of the one using the roads almost twice as much (by km travelled).

It's like stopping at a toll booth and being let through without paying, with the attendant saying "Nah, don't worry. We've taken enough money from you this month. We'll get some from the others who haven't been through here a lot."

:mad:


...ok I'm done.
 
zamicro said:
I defended House a while ago in a thread. Someone replied that they were attacking him/her because of previous threads. This past week I read enough to understand why everyone is going down on House... Now I want to join the kicking!
Click to expand...

Look out for Tracer and qwertydude ...
 
Too late, House has left the building... well he would like use to think that. He still lurks these corridors. People like him can't help themselves, their true nature takes over.

zamicro said:
I defended House a while ago in a thread. Someone replied that they were attacking him/her because of previous threads. This past week I read enough to understand why everyone is going down on House... Now I want to join the kicking!
Click to expand...
 
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