First election results in

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

I see more negatives than positives for the ANC if they merge with the EFF.

The Anc would shed votes if they alligned with the Eff. That's assuming the Eff would even consider it.

The Anc has had the mandate to do what the Eff wants to do for 20 years. Nationalise all the mines and farms and effectively bankrupt the "previously advantage" through "wealth sharing".

They've never done this. They've thrown an olive branch to whites. Told us if we want to be part of South Africa we are welcome. When we proclaim the Anc are like the Eff we spit in the face of good grace. I am not an Anc supporter. I'm a realist who knows when the Anc decides us whities don't deserve their good grace they can pull our rights from under us and feed us to the masses. They have had 20 years to do this and lots of pressure but haven't. Is it a little too much to ask that we axknowledge that if the Anc really wanted to shock us we would know about it ?

 

[DJ...]

What have they done that is so shocking ?

Nothing...about anything of importance. That's the shocking bit. They have turned a blind eye to corruption; refuse to hold people to account; done little of actual traction with regards to crime; allowed unions to dictate politics and lost control of the most important sector of our economy, as well as costing the country hundreds of billions; and a whole lot more.

They've quite literally done very little. And what they have done has typically been corrupt and/or a complete cock-up. Citizens by and large have no respect for them, but many still vote for them because they're optimists and believe that there are no other viable alternatives. Once again, thanks to the ANC scaremongering about every other bloody party.

At the end of the day, I have zero faith in them to do anything right. I used to, but that's now completely gone. They have become an inherently corrupt, lazy, and ineffective bureaucratic organisation, with big mouths, fat wallets, zero pride, and no other interest but their own at heart. All good will I had for them has disappeared...

 

[Paul Hjul]

Nothing...about anything of importance. That's the shocking bit. They have turned a blind eye to corruption; refuse to hold people to account; done little of actual traction with regards to crime; allowed unions to dictate politics and lost control of the most important sector of our economy, as well as costing the country hundreds of billions; and a whole lot more.

They've quite literally done very little. And what they have done has typically been corrupt and/or a complete cock-up. Citizens by and large have no respect for them, but many still vote for them because they're optimists and believe that there are no other viable alternatives. Once again, thanks to the ANC scaremongering about every other bloody party.

At the end of the day, I have zero faith in them to do anything right. I used to, but that's now completely gone. They have become an inherently corrupt, lazy, and ineffective bureaucratic organisation, with big mouths, fat wallets, zero pride, and no other interest but their own at heart. All good will I had for them has disappeared...

You speaking of the ANC or the DA or the Republicans or the Democrats or the Conservative Party or Labour?

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

Nothing...about anything of importance. That's the shocking bit. They have turned a blind eye to corruption; refuse to hold people to account; done little of actual traction with regards to crime; allowed unions to dictate politics and lost control of the most important sector of our economy, as well as costing the country hundreds of billions; and a whole lot more.

They've quite literally done very little. And what they have done has typically been corrupt and/or a complete cock-up. Citizens by and large have no respect for them, but many still vote for them because they're optimists and believe that there are no other viable alternatives. Once again, thanks to the ANC scaremongering about every other bloody party.

At the end of the day, I have zero faith in them to do anything right. I used to, but that's now completely gone. They have become an inherently corrupt, lazy, and ineffective bureaucratic organisation, with big mouths, fat wallets, zero pride, and no other interest but their own at heart. All good will I had for them has disappeared...

I agree with almost every word. But I'd rather have the party you described above than one with big fanciful ideas that would really ruin the country like the Eff. That would be really shocking.

A soft , fat, liberal, corrupt goverment that's moderate in it's attitude to radical change....that's almost....first world.

 

[Unhappy1]

The Anc would shed votes if they alligned with the Eff. That's assuming the Eff would even consider it.

The Anc has had the mandate to do what the Eff wants to do for 20 years. Nationalise all the mines and farms and effectively bankrupt the "previously advantage" through "wealth sharing".

They've never done this. They've thrown an olive branch to whites. Told us if we want to be part of South Africa we are welcome. When we proclaim the Anc are like the Eff we spit in the face of good grace. I am not an Anc supporter. I'm a realist who knows when the Anc decides us whities don't deserve their good grace they can pull our rights from under us and feed us to the masses. They have had 20 years to do this and lots of pressure but haven't. Is it a little too much to ask that we axknowledge that if the Anc really wanted to shock us we would know about it ?

I doubt that many whites think the ANC is like the EFF, im generalising here but i would think most view the ANC in a negative light and the EFF in an astronomically negative light. Different degrees of negativity

Whilst the ANC probably doesnt treat whites equally to blacks they dont throw us in the gutter like the EFF would.

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

I doubt that many whites think the ANC is like the EFF, im generalising here but i would think most view the ANC in a negative light and the EFF in an astronomically negative light. Different degrees of negativity

Whilst the ANC probably doesnt treat whites equally to blacks they dont throw us in the gutter like the EFF would.

Now that's the fair and honest type of perspective that I was looking for. Well done.

 

[CellBel]

Frankly I find your post hilarious.

+1000

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

+1000

I requested evidence to show the Anc had done anything shockingly bad. I provided examples of things most people would consider shockinly bad even. He hinted it wasn't even worth spending time answering because they so obviously had. I then said well if it's so obvious then it should be so easy to demonstrate and invited him to do so. He didn't.

But for you to jump in and "+1000" the emptiest of statements is a new level of confirmation bias. Someone call the record books.

 

[DJ...]

I agree with almost every word. But I'd rather have the party you described above than one with big fanciful ideas that would really ruin the country like the Eff. That would be really shocking.

I'd happily take the ANC over the EFF any day of this, and all future weeks for eternity. But that's not to say that what the ANC have done hasn't been shockingly poor, because that would be disingenuous. There is only one viable opposition party and as much as I don't agree with a lot of what they say and do, it's the DA. In fact when I ran the news24 know your party survey, it showed me to be 21% aligned with the UDM policies - my highest match, with the DA second.

21% aligned? That means that for every policy I agree with, I'm potentially in disagreement with 4 other policies of theirs, or at least another party represents my opinion and views a little better.

The whole system is rather stupid. The voice-by-proxy model of democracy is plain fscking ridiculous. I shouldn't have to lend my support to 5 policies (as an exmaple) simply because I agree with 1 of them. Especially if other parties better replicate my position on matters. People just typically don't value their vote enough. They're cheap votes. most DA voters would in all likelihood, when pressed to compare policy vs policy, end up siding with another party all together, yet they put their mark next to the DA simply because "they're not the ANC". That's a serious devaluing of one's most important democratic say.

It's not that the DA are bad (but they're not great) - it's rather that this system of supposedly democratic proxy-representation is just flawed entirely. Citizens should be able to participate to a far deeper level of engagement than the proxy-representation system without having to actually now affiliate one's self with a specific party. I don't believe that 20% agreement with a party warrants my vote. I don't think others should devalue their vote to that extent either...

 

[Hamish McPanji]

My question is as follows, if a party any where in the world has a 60%+ guaranteed majority for 20 years, what would that party become?

 

[Unhappy1]

My question is as follows, if a party any where in the world has a 60%+ guaranteed majority for 20 years, what would that party become?

Yup good question, unmotivated and incompetent.

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

I'd happily take the ANC over the EFF any day of this, and all future weeks for eternity. But that's not to say that what the ANC have done hasn't been shockingly poor, because that would be disingenuous. There is only one viable opposition party and as much as I don't agree with a lot of what they say and do, it's the DA. In fact when I ran the news24 know your party survey, it showed me to be 21% aligned with the UDM policies - my highest match, with the DA second.

21% aligned? That means that for every policy I agree with, I'm potentially in disagreement with 4 other policies of theirs, or at least another party represents my opinion and views a little better.

The whole system is rather stupid. The voice-by-proxy model of democracy is plain fscking ridiculous. I shouldn't have to lend my support to 5 policies (as an exmaple) simply because I agree with 1 of them. Especially if other parties better replicate my position on matters. People just typically don't value their vote enough. They're cheap votes. most DA voters would in all likelihood, when pressed to compare policy vs policy, end up siding with another party all together, yet they put their mark next to the DA simply because "they're not the ANC". That's a serious devaluing of one's most important democratic say.

It's not that the DA are bad (but they're not great) - it's rather that this system of supposedly democratic proxy-representation is just flawed entirely. Citizens should be able to participate to a far deeper level of engagement than the proxy-representation system without having to actually now affiliate one's self with a specific party. I don't believe that 20% agreement with a party warrants my vote. I don't think others should devalue their vote to that extent either...

I really wanted to vote for another party and ended up voting for the Da for the cause of a strong opposition to the Anc. I don't think there is really anything different in Da policy to the Anc. In fact the Da are slightly more socialist in many ways. I also have no doubt the Da would be (like all governments world over) also highly corrupt. But at least their roots wouldn't be so entrenched that they would be above the law. For the first few years at least the dog eat dog would mean they'd keep each other in check (by fighting over the pie in equal footing.)

Power always corrupts. The Western countries of the world didn't become the most powerful nations on earth via their sense of fair play.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

I'd happily take the ANC over the EFF any day of this, and all future weeks for eternity. But that's not to say that what the ANC have done hasn't been shockingly poor, because that would be disingenuous. There is only one viable opposition party and as much as I don't agree with a lot of what they say and do, it's the DA. In fact when I ran the news24 know your party survey, it showed me to be 21% aligned with the UDM policies - my highest match, with the DA second.

21% aligned? That means that for every policy I agree with, I'm potentially in disagreement with 4 other policies of theirs, or at least another party represents my opinion and views a little better.

The whole system is rather stupid. The voice-by-proxy model of democracy is plain fscking ridiculous. I shouldn't have to lend my support to 5 policies (as an exmaple) simply because I agree with 1 of them. Especially if other parties better replicate my position on matters. People just typically don't value their vote enough. They're cheap votes. most DA voters would in all likelihood, when pressed to compare policy vs policy, end up siding with another party all together, yet they put their mark next to the DA simply because "they're not the ANC". That's a serious devaluing of one's most important democratic say.

It's not that the DA are bad (but they're not great) - it's rather that this system of supposedly democratic proxy-representation is just flawed entirely. Citizens should be able to participate to a far deeper level of engagement than the proxy-representation system without having to actually now affiliate one's self with a specific party. I don't believe that 20% agreement with a party warrants my vote. I don't think others should devalue their vote to that extent either...

People, by and large, don't want that. They don't want responsibility on that level, and they don't want the responsibility that comes with freedom, in many instances.

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

People, by and large, don't want that. They don't want responsibility on that level, and they don't want the responsibility that comes with freedom, in many instances.

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

 

[Hamish McPanji]

Yup good question, unmotivated and incompetent.

Agreed

And I hope this election has made people realise that the DA as it exists is not the party that can take this country to the next step. The party that will do that will have to resonate with the masses, which the DA does not. Added to that, there are no smaller parties for them to score votes off anymore

 

[OrbitalDawn]

Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.

I like that.

 

[DJ...]

People, by and large, don't want that. They don't want responsibility on that level, and they don't want the responsibility that comes with freedom, in many instances.

Agreed, and that's partly the problem. A lazy, disinterested population, being lead by lazier and more corrupt "leaders".

Welcome to politics and social psychology. Where everyone's a moron - some just more than others...

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

Agreed

And I hope this election has made people realise that the DA as it exists is not the party that can take this country to the next step. The party that will do that will have to resonate with the masses, which the DA does not. Added to that, there are no smaller parties for them to score votes off anymore

What's wrong with the idea of us going forward with the Anc at the helm ? That's what we have to work with. So maybe let's all provide an incentive and if they can get rid of Zuma and his cronies and show some level of accountability and funnel the funds into the hands of vibrant and willing members of the country rather than the self enriching. If they can do that then we will give them our support ? Is there even that level of good will ?

Or are we all hell bent on a vendeta to cut off our noses to spite our faces ? The Anc is a government we have to live with so for example all well meaning people with the will to serve their people why not get entrenched ? Or why not just do it outside the comfounds of counter politics where it seems to be wasted ?

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

I like that.

Tatooed on my chest.

 

[Paul Hjul]

Agreed, and that's partly the problem. A lazy, disinterested population, being lead by lazier and more corrupt "leaders".

Welcome to politics and social psychology. Where everyone's a moron - some just more than others...

To quote the great philosopher Kay:

A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow.