Is the move to adjusted level 4 lockdown a good move?

[Johnatan56]

Droplets vs Aerosols: What's More Important in COVID-19 Spread?

CDC finally acknowledged aerosol transmission, but contribution to case counts remains unclear

www.medpagetoday.com

The CDC still states that respiratory fluids overall are the main mode of transmission, but now distinguishes between inhaling small aerosols or deposition of virus in exhaled "splashes or sprays" onto mucous membranes, like the mouth or nose. There is limited evidence about the significance of droplets versus aerosols -- but it is known that larger particles can infect people at close distances.


"COVID is generally transmitted through bigger particles, like tiny little balls of spit, if you will, that people create when they speak or cough or sneeze," said Adrian Popp, MD, an infectious disease physician at Northwell Health's Huntington Hospital in New York. "Those droplets tend to fall on the floor or disappear from the surroundings in about 15 or 20 minutes or so."

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Like I said, they don't wanna openly admit it yet.

Admit what?

None of them were complete lockdowns

What is a complete lockdown to you then? I never said South Africa did it right, I said that lockdowns correctly implemented do help. South Africa does not do it correctly.

"Want you old life back? get the vaccine!"

After you get the vaccine

"nothing has really changed, you still need to do everything we forced you to do before"

bait and switch

So now you're complaining about government again. Nothing to do with the points I was making.

Immunity=not getting sick from it
Immunity!=reducing symptoms

Here:

Immunization Basics | CDC

Immunization: The Basics

www.cdc.gov

Protection from the disease, note that it does not state you will not get it, will not experience symptoms, etc.
You're interpreting your own stuff there.

vaccine=permanent immunity without a need for booster shots by causing a less lethal infection

What? No, there are so many vaccines that are not permanent that use booster shots.

mRNA vaccine=prophylactic medical device that does minor gene therapy NOT a vaccine.... it's a fraud.

So you have no clue what you're talking about.

 

[rambo919]

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Admit what?

That the droplets thing was a guess.... that did not pan out.

What is a complete lockdown to you then? I never said South Africa did it right, I said that lockdowns correctly implemented do help. South Africa does not do it correctly.

No movement of anything except deliveries for a month. Complete compliance.

This is not possible anywhere even in China.

So now you're complaining about government again. Nothing to do with the points I was making.

That was the advertising by both government and industry.... it was a lie.

Here:

Immunization Basics | CDC

Immunization: The Basics

www.cdc.gov

Protection from the disease, note that it does not state you will not get it, will not experience symptoms, etc.
You're interpreting your own stuff there.

Has it occurred to you that the CDC is a political organization?

What? No, there are so many vaccines that are not permanent that use booster shots.

So you have no clue what you're talking about.

That's nice dear.

 

[rambo919]

If you can just call stuff whatever you want then words have no meaning and then droplets is also fine. So you end up arguing with yourself over nothing.

So how do you define airborne if it is not something that hangs in the air for however briefly?

Droplets don't hang.... they drop.

 

[rietrot]

-

Admit what?

What is a complete lockdown to you then? I never said South Africa did it right, I said that lockdowns correctly implemented do help. South Africa does not do it correctly.

So now you're complaining about government again. Nothing to do with the points I was making.

Here:
View attachment 1096911

Immunization Basics | CDC

Immunization: The Basics

www.cdc.gov

Protection from the disease, note that it does not state you will not get it, will not experience symptoms, etc.
You're interpreting your own stuff there.

What? No, there are so many vaccines that are not permanent that use booster shots.

So you have no clue what you're talking about.

The most common types of viruses causing infections in the respiratory tract through aerosol transmission are influenza viruses, rhinoviruses, coronaviruses, respiratory syncytial viruses

From the link. Look at that. Corona viruses are know for infecting people through aerosol transmission.

So I'll beive the actual science above some random MD that was quoted.

 

[rietrot]

So how do you define airborne if it is not something that hangs in the air for however briefly?

Droplets don't hang.... they drop.

What Are Airborne Diseases?

Learn about how airborne diseases spread, the common types, how to prevent them, and more.

www.webmd.com

My mistake. I thought airborne implied flight.

 

[Johnatan56]

From the link. Look at that. Corona viruses are know for infecting people through aerosol transmission.

I'm so sorry for not saying that I meant that the main way it infects is droplets, and that I definitely did not mean to exclude that it's possible via aerosol and moisture left in surfaces, and that masks help mainly against droplets.

 

[SlinkyMike]

I don’t know what the right answer to this is, or that there is a right answer, but this third wave has affected more people in my circle and environment than the first two combined which means we are all isolating regardless. Levels don’t matter at this point.

Same here. Everyone I know knows 3-4 people with it. Several messages coming from client emails: "It is with great sadness..."

 

[rambo919]

What Are Airborne Diseases?

Learn about how airborne diseases spread, the common types, how to prevent them, and more.

www.webmd.com

My mistake. I thought airborne implied flight.

Can we just stop arguing past each other please?

 

[rietrot]

I'm so sorry for not saying that I meant that the main way it infects is droplets, and that I definitely did not mean to exclude that it's possible via aerosol and moisture left in surfaces, and that masks help mainly against droplets.

Proof for "droplets" being the main way? And a measurement perhaps for what you consider a droplets vs aerosol transmission.

Clearly the science shows corona viruses are know for aerosol transmission. The air you breath out contains small "droplets" of moisture that hangs in the air. A mask doesn't filter the virus out.

 

[Johnatan56]

Proof for "droplets" being the main way? And a measurement perhaps for what you consider a droplets vs aerosol transmission.

Clearly the science shows corona viruses are know for aerosol transmission. The air you breath out contains small "droplets" of moisture that hangs in the air. A mask doesn't filter the virus out.

The purpose of the cloth mask is to catch larger particles, surgical masks are better.

Source Control to Block Exhaled Virus​

Multi-layer cloth masks block release of exhaled respiratory particles into the environment,3-6 along with the microorganisms these particles carry.7,8 Cloth masks not only effectively block most large droplets (i.e., 20-30 microns and larger)9 but they can also block the exhalation of fine droplets and particles (also often referred to as aerosols) smaller than 10 microns ;3,5 which increase in number with the volume of speech10-12 and specific types of phonation.13 Multi-layer cloth masks can both block up to 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3,14 and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5,6,15,16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments that have measured blocking of all respiratory droplets,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3,9,143

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.

www.cdc.gov

Note that is cloth masks, not surgical, surgical is substantially better.

Both surgical masks and unvented KN95 respirators, even without fit-testing, reduce the outward particle emission rates by 90% and 74% on average during speaking and coughing, respectively, compared to wearing no mask, corroborating their effectiveness at reducing outward emission. These masks similarly decreased the outward particle emission of a coughing superemitter, who for unclear reasons emitted up to two orders of magnitude more expiratory particles via coughing than average. In contrast, shedding of non-expiratory micron-scale particulates from friable cellulosic fibers in homemade cotton-fabric masks confounded explicit determination of their efficacy at reducing expiratory particle emission.
[...]

Efficacy of masks and face coverings in controlling outward aerosol particle emission from expiratory activities

The COVID-19 pandemic triggered a surge in demand for facemasks to protect against disease transmission. In response to shortages, many public health authorities have recommended homemade masks as acceptable alternatives to surgical masks and N95 respirators. Although mask wearing is intended...

www.nature.com

The low number of participants of this study is fine as easy to reproduce/capture results.

South Africa should have mandated surgical masks or better by now.

 

[rietrot]

The purpose of the cloth mask is to catch larger particles, surgical masks are better.

Note that is cloth masks, not surgical, surgical is substantially better.

The low number of participants of this study is fine as easy to reproduce/capture results.

South Africa should have mandated surgical masks or better by now.

Lol you are clearly out of touch with reality if you think you can mandate surgcal mask. Especially to be worn correctly.

90% is not enough when sitting in a confined space with other people like a taxi.

Lets see a study for a surgical mask that was washed 5 times and worn for 3 consecutive days at a time.


There's no point to any of this. It doesn't work. People who follow all the social distancing nonsense still get it.

There's no valid argument for reducing the spread, or flattening the curve. That just prolongs the inevitable.

Everyone will get it.
People trying to flatten the curve only farm new variants.

 

[Johnatan56]

Lol you are clearly out of touch with reality if you think you can mandate surgcal mask. Especially to be worn correctly.

90% is not enough when sitting in a confined space with other people like a taxi.

Lets see a study for a surgical mask that was washed 5 times and worn for 3 consecutive days at a time.


There's no point to any of this. It doesn't work. People who follow all the social distancing nonsense still get it.

There's no valid argument for reducing the spread, or flattening the curve. That just prolongs the inevitable.

Everyone will get it.
People trying to flatten the curve only farm new variants.

You're shifting the goalposts there, and the idea behind flattening the curve is to try and have less people in hospital at a time as there are only so many resources available.
And what if you're not sitting in a taxi? The point of a mask is to stop you from giving to others, not the other way around, you going into a taxi has nothing to do with me.

 

[rietrot]

You're shifting the goalposts there, and the idea behind flattening the curve is to try and have less people in hospital at a time as there are only so many resources available.
And what if you're not sitting in a taxi? The point of a mask is to stop you from giving to others, not the other way around, you going into a taxi has nothing to do with me.

If you are only concerned about yourself then stay home where you are safe. Stop trying to mandate mask for other people.

You wanting to wear a mask has nothing to do with me.

 

[Kosmik]

Not enough purely because there is zero enforcement and the stupidity aorund tavel etc just carries on.

 

[Geoff.D]

I also see that pilots are dying due to the Astra Zeneca vaccine. Supposedly the air pressure. So not good either.

A link between barometric pressure and Covid deaths after receiving a vaccine (AZ)?

Link please.

 

[Johnatan56]

If you are only concerned about yourself then stay home where you are safe. Stop trying to mandate mask for other people.

You wanting to wear a mask has nothing to do with me.

You're quite stupid, easy enough to wear a mask to help others in the middle of a pandemic, yet instead you freak out about it.

Guess people should just drink and drive, when they crash into a pedestrian it's obviously their problem, not yours.

 

[Geoff.D]

No. Focus on the vaccination programme, which has been a disaster. If those who want & are eligible for vaccination are not vaccinated soon, how many more lockdowns are we going to have to endure?

Yes this is the key.
1 Failure of the EVDS system to get people that WANT the vaccines to get it.
2. Requiring people to now queue at walk-in centres - madness when you then put in place regulations regarding gatherings.
3. FAILURE to allow or allocate people to private vax centres who are "uninsured". -- Non-govt official or private place wants to answer this simple question.
4. Opening up registrations to other groups before finishing the previous phases -- teachers get vaccinated then schools are closed - how does this make any sense.

 

[Geoff.D]

There are over 108 variants of the Virus at the moment.

108? where did you get this from? in SA? in the World? Many more than that in SA alone.

 

[Geoff.D]

It's spread via droplets, not sure what you're on about there.

It is both! The virus is airborne with the predominant mode of spread aerosols.

That stupid lie has been completely exposed, BUT WHO has failed dismally in admitting it or ensuring that everyone knows it.

 

[Johnatan56]

It is both! The virus is airborne with the predominant mode of spread aerosols.

That stupid lie has been completely exposed, BUT WHO has failed dismally in admitting it or ensuring that everyone knows it.

Which was the point I was making in regards to him saying masks are useless, didn't mean no spread via aerosol.