Know your consumer rights!

yep you buy a service product using internet banking and the service product expires on the terms appearing in the agreement for that service, those terms are coherent, reasonable and tied to the delivery of the product at the lowest price

this is why MTN and Vodacom both have offerings that have data expiry windows of 7 days or less

apply some logic a "bundle" is a product offering with an expiry point known at the time of entry whether it is a result of redeeming a voucher or an outright purchase
 
Paul Hjul said:
yep you buy a service product using internet banking and the service product expires on the terms appearing in the agreement for that service, those terms are coherent, reasonable and tied to the delivery of the product at the lowest price

this is why MTN and Vodacom both have offerings that have data expiry windows of 7 days or less

apply some logic a "bundle" is a product offering with an expiry point known at the time of entry whether it is a result of redeeming a voucher or an outright purchase
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My dear Paul, you really don't get it, do you? Are you just copy and pasting from the company policy document or what? For millions of users, the policy of a 30 day data expiry period is unjust, unfair and unreasonable. I understand it's company policy and the customer buys it under those terms, but those terms are unjust, unfair and unreasonable and in violation of CPA :whistle:
 
if something is unjust and unfair it is so to the public at large

you are welcome to waste the NCCs time with your nonsense but just be aware that you have no understanding of the CPA when you do so
 
Paul Hjul said:
if something is unjust and unfair it is so to the public at large

you are welcome to waste the NCCs time with your nonsense but just be aware that you have no understanding of the CPA when you do so
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The NCC has acknowledged my complaint and declared it valid for further investigation. The screws are surely tightening on the corporate bullies. Watch this space. Will keep you posted. Good night! :love:
 
Captain-Justice said:
The NCC has acknowledged my complaint and declared it valid for further investigation. The screws are surely tightening on the corporate bullies. Watch this space. Will keep you posted. Good night! :love:
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this complaint has been lodged before and preliminary papers exchanged - best of luck with the NCC
 
C-J, once it gets to real lawyers at the NCC it'll be laughed out. Sorry to say it, but you're on a Don Quixote mission.

You're missing the very basic elements of the contract.

The consumer offers to purchase a 30-day voucher/data-quantum from the MNO.

The MNO accepts the offer.

A binding contract is instantiated.

If the MNO fails to deliver as agreed, for example by reducing the agreed quantum of data, or by terminating the service within the agreed timeframe, then the purchaser clearly has an action at law to seek specific performance.

It is clearly unjust for the purchaser to offer to buy a defined limited-time data quantum, and then after the contract is concluded, to then unilaterally demand that the time period be extended without any further payment, further averring that the other party's failure to do so is "unjust and illegal". Do you even know what this means?

You are quoting a few little sections from a poorly-conceived and pathetically-drafted piece of legislation. You don't evince any understanding of the broader context of the law of contract or even the Common Law against which the Act is to be understood and interpreted.

As a wag has it: text without context is pretext.

It is unseemly to rush about citing bits of text and making wild allegations against certain parties, imputing manners and motives that if untrue make your comments defamatory and actionable. You frequently claim that this or that action "is in violation of" or "is in breach of" the CPA, whereas in reality no court has found thus. Who made you the judge? Until these matters are settled it is more prudent to say "believe", "allege", "aver", and such like.

I welcome your consumer activism. Heaven knows, we need a wider awareness of our rights. But a consumer activist making ill-judged, uninformed and wild accusations untested and unsupported by the courts will not advance the cause and in fact only make you look ignorant and ineffectual.

In this particular case you're chasing windmills.
 
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If we all had such a defeatist attitude, our consumer rights would be non existent, but luckily we're not all like you.

You and many others can't make the mind shift from a pre CPA dispensation where the corporates dictated terms to a post CPA dispensation where the consumer has more rights and it's protected by Law.

As I tried to explain to Paul last night, I know what the conditions were when I bought the data, but I had no other choice as the big 3 have a monopoly in the cellphone industry. Just because it's company policy, doesn't mean it's just, reasonable and fair. I'm fighting the unjust policy and when I succeed, you will also benefit (if you're a consumer, even though you sound like a corporate bully to me).

Only time will tell if I'll be successful. There are other avenues at my disposal should I not be successful with NCC. You don't know my background and what I've already achieved for consumer rights, so keep your prejudices to yourself and don't judge too soon. Wait and see.
 
[Q UOTE=Arthur;12850667]Huh? I call you on prejudging, and now I'm prejudiced?? Bravely spoken, Captain. Your sense of justice needs some review.[/QUOTE]
When you point a finger, 3 fingers point back at you. Remember that ...
 
Do you have anything else of intelligence to share with the forum? Any counter arguments based on fact or supported by legislation?
 
@Captain-Justice: Have you been living under a rock for the last few years? These topics have been discussed to death on MyBB.

Do yourself a favour and have a read through Vodacom 3G, a big scam.

In particular, vodacom3g's response in post #31.
 
ginggs said:
@Captain-Justice: Have you been living under a rock for the last few years? These topics have been discussed to death on MyBB.

Do yourself a favour and have a read through Vodacom 3G, a big scam.

In particular, vodacom3g's response in post #31.
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Ok guys, I'm typing this reaaal slow so you can understand.

1. The link you're referencing was posted in Aug 2008, which was pre CPA. Since the implementation of CPA in Apr 2009, consumers were significantly empowered by CPA legislation and corporate spin is not the alpha and omega anymore;
2. iBurst rolls over their data for 3 years, why can they handle it, but not Vodacon, MTN and Cell C? In spite of this, their rates are the lowest of the lot which proves extended rollover will bring down prices, not increase it.
Check out https://www.iburst.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11&Itemid=115. (btw, I'm just a user, not an employee of iBurst). For R198, I'm getting 10GB anytime data + 10GB midnight to morning + wireless desktop modem with no payment for ADSL line rental. Modem is wireless and portable and I can take it anywhere. Compare that to Vodacom's R149 for a 1GB "promotional" bundle, and you can see where the demand for justice, reasonableness and fairness comes in.
3. The average user don't want a rollover of data for years, but at most 3 months as it works out cheaper to buy a larger (and cheaper per MB) bundle to use over 3 months than buying smaller, more expensive bundles lasting only 30 days. Most users despise the fact that they're losing that 200 or 300MB balance at the end of the 30 days.
4. Let's unpack this statement from Vodacom on http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/129914-Vodacom-3G-a-big-scam?p=1979699#post1979699
"This model works fine if there is some predictability on how quickly a bucket will be filled. You need to know how many people will be filling up their buckets over a specific time to work out how strong the river must flow to handle all potential requests for water.
If there is no predictable period in which all the buckets sold will be filled up, a situation could arise where suddenly a large number of buckets try to get water from the river and exceeds to river's capacity to fill them."
Vodacom professes they need predictability to successfully manage their data stream. Now people, engage minds and think logically. What is more predictable a) knowing the size of purchased data in the pipeline the ISP is obliged to deliver and managing it accordingly or b) cancelling what is in the pipeline after 30 days and guessing the size of the client's next data top-up? Vodacom's current practice is the cause of bottlenecks and peak usage spikes as users jump on the net to download music or whatever just to use up their data balance before it expires.
5. Vodacom has a Pay Once bundle where you pay R999 upfront for 12GB over 12 months ie. 1GB per month. The con is that the 1GB p.m expires after 30 days. Now people, engage minds again and see how predictable this is. If the user consumes 500MB in month one, the balance for the 11 remaining months is 11.5GB. Why will Vodacom allow the unused 500MB to expire, for predictability or bigger profits? Lol. A grade 3 child can do the prediction what their future data stream will be to service this client. :mad:
 
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I'm still not convinced Vodacom's 30 day expiration terms are inherently unfair, unreasonable, or unjust, but section 48 of the CPA is so broad that a case could certainly be made for it. Personally, I hope that the NCC does take this seriously because we need some legal precedent to clarify the more ambiguous provisions of the Act.

Just out of curiosity, why are you banging this particular drum so zealously? I'm all for consumer right advocacy, but Vodacom's data bundle policy wouldn't be top of my list.
 
Paul Hjul said:
this is starting to sound like an advertorial for iburst and your seeming hatred for VC might be tied to having a hard on for iburst
be that as it may how the **** do you include iburst in the big 3?
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Hatred for Vodacom? Are you serious? Or just getting carried away as he has an opposing view?
 
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