[May 2013..Dec 2013] The Gauteng E-tolling Thread

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Tman* said:
I doubt they will do that, but lets wait and see. I rate there will be hundreds of people hiding, removing, modifying and obscuring their numberplates to avoid payment every single day.

Imagine the type of manpower needed 24h per day to pull these cars off the road if there is (for example) 10 cars an hour per gantry with some type of numberplate infraction?

Impossible to control IMHO
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Just need to make examples of some, jailtime, everyone will fall in line
 
Sinbad said:
Put a patrol car at the next gantry, radio a description of the suspect car and wait.
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Sounds too much like efficient work. I don't care how much money they have assigned to the policing of this system, it is still our average SA bafoons that will get the jobs. I don't see this working well at all.

Another option is to have a retractable Stencil that deploys at an angle to the plate, an angle that is more or less flat to the camera, but very hard to notice when driving behind.
This Stencil could obscure the plate, without being too obvious. You could even have it "modify" your standard plate into some real letters and numbers. Then when the software flags it as an invalid plate, the private cops get given this invalid plate to look for. From their vantage point, they wont see the stencil very easily and they will be looking for a plate number that you don't actually have on.

I am sure there are a multitude of ways to confuse the bafoons that will be running this show.
 
SoulTax said:
Sounds too much like efficient work. I don't care how much money they have assigned to the policing of this system, it is still our average SA bafoons that will get the jobs. I don't see this working well at all.
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The system will be managed by Kapsch for the first 5 years, so it will efficient just like the Gautrain. It's only after that 5 years that it will fall apart on that aspect.
 
Hypothetical situation: I live in Durban and drive up to Gauteng for an important meeting. I pass through a few gantries during my trip at a cost of lets say R50.

I dont have an etag and I dont bother paying my account. A few months down the line I drive up to Gauteng again and I get pulled off at a roadblock. I refuse to pay, and proceed to court.

Can you get a criminal record if found guilty if the amount is so small?
 
Tman* said:
Ill only be traveling through 2 gantries per day, so for that reason I can simply flip my plate 5 seconds before the gantry, and flip it back after...

As far as the reverse plate I'm thinking of displaying a blank plate so there will be no poor unsuspecting victim with a huge bill. Also, if you get caught they cant exactly charge you for previous bills as there is no sure way to identify your car?

As far as legality goes, I am pretty sure it falls in the same category as using a radar/lazer jammer. Its legal to own, as long as they don't catch you using it. For that reason I will make sure that the car looks 100% stock from the outside.
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If they catch you using the device I would imagine big *** on your side...?

Wyzak said:
The system will be managed by Kapsch for the first 5 years, so it will efficient just like the Gautrain. It's only after that 5 years that it will fall apart on that aspect.
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I highly doubt the system will run live for 5 years. I think we will see its collapse sooner than that.
 
Tman* said:
Hypothetical situation: I live in Durban and drive up to Gauteng for an important meeting. I pass through a few gantries during my trip at a cost of lets say R50.

I dont have an etag and I dont bother paying my account. A few months down the line I drive up to Gauteng again and I get pulled off at a roadblock. I refuse to pay, and proceed to court.

Can you get a criminal record if found guilty if the amount is so small?
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Theoretically yes, but with one difference. They don't have to wait for you to come to Gauteng again, they can come and fetch you in Durban.

Tander said:
If they catch you using the device I would imagine big *** on your side...?
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Immediate arrest yes, for defeating the ends of justice.

Tander said:
I highly doubt the system will run live for 5 years. I think we will see its collapse sooner than that.
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I agree.
 
Wyzak said:
Theoretically yes, but with one difference. They don't have to wait for you to come to Gauteng again, they can come and fetch you in Durban.



Immediate arrest yes, for defeating the ends of justice.



I agree.
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Okay, now imagine I pass through one single gantry and refuse to pay. Criminal record for R11.25?

I'm sure there must be a threshold?
 
IzZzy said:
I would argue de minimis
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Aaah, just read up on it...

Lets just say that the next couple of months is going to be veeeery interesting. From road users trying to modify & obscure their numberplates, people refusing to pay, and exactly how SANRAL is going to pursue these "offenders".

I for one will not get an E-tag, and should I get a bill I will question every single aspect of it. I have a suspicion the whole administrative system will collapse within 3 months due to the sheer volume of information they will require to process. The government & SANRAL will probably never admit that it collapsed tho...
 
Ol' Mean Bastid said:
now they're highways and we're to be subjected to highway robbery
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Complete with SCAMRAL bandits.


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Hehe.
 
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Garyvdh said:
http://www.theportugalnews.com/news/dead-loss/28626
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Just read this now.

So, SANRAL say they will get 93% compliance. Yet, in a 1st world country they got 19%, non compliance.. where I am sure policing efforts and other measures are at a much higher standard than ours.

SANRAL have to be worried about this??

This is actual proof that these tolls will not last. I suspect SANRAL will have a much, much higher violation rate - maybe 40% even? That sort of violation rate will kill the tolls.
Also, according to António Ramalho; collecting fees from motorists who don't have eTags is costing them so much money and this seems to be one of the bigger reasons why they are seeing the collapse of the system.

Don't buy tags, people and pay the toll fees at the very last minute - make them check every it of info, photos, etc, the lot. Lets bring this system to it's knees! :mad:
 
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http://www.itweb.co.za/index.php?op...le&id=68089:E-tag-your-questions-and-concerns

Q: What will happen to motorists that evade payment?

A: The Sanral Act requires a road user to pay a toll when passing a toll point. It is a road user's legal responsibility to pay toll and not paying is, according to the Act, a criminal offence.

The administrative process that will be followed is as follows:

* Although the toll system is a prepaid system, a road user has a seven-day grace period, from a gantry pass, to pay their e-toll transactions.
* If the e-toll transaction is not paid within seven days, it is transferred to the Violations Processing Centre (the section of e-toll operations that deals with overdue toll amounts).
* Due to the user's status as an alternative user, discounts (e-tag, frequent user and time of day) are no longer applied and the alternative toll tariff applies.
* Transactions are rolled up and an invoice is issued to the road user.
* A road user is then given an opportunity to settle his/her e-toll transactions and depending on the time within which the toll transactions are paid, post grace period discounts might apply.
* During that time, a debt collection process takes place.
* Once it appears that the debt collection process is unsuccessful, a final demand will be issued and the issue handed over to the prosecuting authority.
* Prosecution will be done in terms of the Criminal Procedures Act and/or Aarto [the Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Act] pending when and where it will be implemented.
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So all that for one defaulter, for one week.

Multiply that by say 50,000 defaulters every week ( and 50,000 is probably 950,000 below the real figure ).

Every week, 50,000 final demands etc, then 50,000 court cases on the roll - every week.

No wonder they are desparate to push e-tags so they can just take it from your bank account.
 
Ja, in Portugal it has been several years and they have 20% non-compliance.
The system is still running but they can't pay their debts and they need bail-outs from the Government.
Also the EU has told them that their toll system is in violation of Human Rights laws.

I suppose our system might be able to struggle along for a few years with bail-outs from the Government.
But our non-compliance rate will definitely be much higher.
The chance of collapse here is higher.
But the Government is absolutely determined not to roll back on e-tolling and I think they will stick it out as long as they are in power.
So prepare for a looooong fight, and prepare to have more of your tax money thrown down the toilet on this crap.
 
Tander said:
If they catch you using the device I would imagine big *** on your side...?
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My question is: How do they prove it? You've got numberplates on when they pull you over. Just because you have a plate flipper on your car does not mean you're using it.
 
CarsinemiA said:
My question is: How do they prove it? You've got numberplates on when they pull you over. Just because you have a plate flipper on your car does not mean you're using it.
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I think that is irrelevant. Having such a device on your car means intent I believe and that is the argument they will use.
Does anyone know if the cameras used are sensitive to infrared LEDs (High powered ones, maybe?)

Harder to spot them and car plates look stock?
 
Garyvdh said:
Ja, in Portugal it has been several years and they have 20% non-compliance.
The system is still running but they can't pay their debts and they need bail-outs from the Government.
Also the EU has told them that their toll system is in violation of Human Rights laws.

I suppose our system might be able to struggle along for a few years with bail-outs from the Government.
But our non-compliance rate will definitely be much higher.
The chance of collapse here is higher.
But the Government is absolutely determined not to roll back on e-tolling and I think they will stick it out as long as they are in power.
So prepare for a looooong fight, and prepare to have more of your tax money thrown down the toilet on this crap.
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non-compliance won't make sanral to collapse.

vote out the fuking anc is the only solution.
 
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