Excuse me? what f ing planet do these idiots live on? I guess when you earning 40 mill, reality doesnt apply does it?

I really don't get it. If I earned that much I still wouldn't automatically turn into an a-hole like so many in this country (and the world). I'd get a lot more gratitude by changing the country into a better place.
 
So everyone is claiming to have "won". Pathetic PR games...
 
This just makes me sick! They make billions but retrench staff. instead of cutting down on the CEO's salary and employing more people.


When you have the monopoly you will throw all sorts of capital you've in the bank to make this go away.
 
Vodacom can sort of play the "vindicated" card MTN definitely not.
The only victory MTN can claim is that they didn't have to pay all of the costs of suit for all respondents

I still haven't heard from anybody on the question of costs
it would be a serious hurt for VC and MTN if no order as to costs was made.
 
each party to bear own costs. legal profession is having a party this evening.

yes you have been vindicated, now pay your 44c
 
So everyone is claiming to have "won". Pathetic PR games...

with the little schoolyard barney were you expecting anything else. Several people should be handing in letters of resignation frankly - really MTN and Vodacom lost the war on this one.
 
each party to bear own costs. legal profession is having a party this evening.

yes you have been vindicated, now pay your 44c

eina and just think if VC and MTN were more sensible earlier on they could have saved themselves a ton in costs
 
Comes straight out of the OOB slush fund. What do they care?

lol, probably not probably simply a knock for shareholders with management failing to take responsibility for a horribly misguided course of action

Btw the particular "vindication" here was that it probably appeared risky to several practitioners to amend the Notice of Motion to move for a final order on review before receiving the record and going forward with Rule 53 but the reality is that the interim interdict was rocky to begin with whilst the final setting aside was where strength existed and ICASA admitted to faults. In essence what the MNOs got was what I originally said they could well get the setting aside of the regs on a proper review but buggerall on interim relief. The person who made the recommendation to salvage suit by going in on the Part B probably does deserve his pay for the month but for the most part the companies really wasted a piss load of other peoples money.
 
lol, probably not probably simply a knock for shareholders with management failing to take responsibility for a horribly misguided course of action

Btw the particular "vindication" here was that it probably appeared risky to several practitioners to amend the Notice of Motion to move for a final order on review before receiving the record and going forward with Rule 53 but the reality is that the interim interdict was rocky to begin with whilst the final setting aside was where strength existed and ICASA admitted to faults. In essence what the MNOs got was what I originally said they could well get the setting aside of the regs on a proper review but buggerall on interim relief. The person who made the recommendation to salvage suit by going in on the Part B probably does deserve his pay for the month but for the most part the companies really wasted a piss load of other peoples money.

can you please explain in layman terms? :)
 
can you please explain in layman terms? :)

Let me give it a bash - unfortunately as with many things simplicity is more challenging to accomplish and there is trade off between the avoiding jargon, accuracy and brevity (to speak accurately and briefly almost invariably requires very specific terminology, but this is unfashionable: why say ultra vires and demonstrate knowledge of a Latin term when you can divy up a paragraph on rationality, proportionality and constitutionality?). As I am not properly online and because a good narrative is always broken by the footnotes I am not going to reference cases or post links.

[If RPM provided some incentive ;) I could put together a proper referenced article on this but unfortunately at the moment the (fire) pool of dangling articles is far to large and this case is not half as interesting legally as about a dozen others waiting to be commented on :) ]

Let us start with a gross simplification - there are two distinct approaches that can be used to take a matter to a civil court: [1] initiating a motion which is brought on notice with a founding affidavit (application proceedings) and is ordinarily served by the sheriff; and [2] trial proceedings (also taught IIRC as actions) which are commenced by a returned summons duly issued by the clerical officer of the court and served by the sheriff. Motion proceedings are essentially done "on the papers" and unless the court grants leave evidence cannot be lead whereas a summons is an instrument calling a person to come to court and answer the claims of a plaintiff (and allows them to make their own counter-claims) essentially inviting evidence. Motion proceedings don't allow for lots of exchanges of papers and can be brought to a final decision in court quite quickly - of course if leave to file additional papers is granted they can quickly grow in exchanges and time to resolution.
Once a matter is before the court (whether brought by summons or notice) the parties can bring interlocutory motions on all sorts of things and motions are used to regulate and conduct litigation - so keep in mind a difference between what I'd term an instituting motion and an interlocutory motion.

Historically using a motion to institute proceedings was not a norm and motions gave rise to rulings and orders (which could be varied, although devices such as the rule nisi given as an order would lead to a final judgment) while summons gave a judgment (with finality subject only to an appeal to a higher court) [further distinctions existed with petitions and so on, but I am rambling ;)] but certainly by the 1960's it was well established in our law that a litigant could achieve almost any relief on motion with proper notice and a "judgment or order" could be final or interim and that would determine whether an appeal could be prosecuted - an order or ruling lacking finality being unappealable.

<A bit of a tangent but of interest if you want my general reasoning on the subject>
In my view motions as a means of instituting proceedings will continue to develop, to the expense of the rather rusty and trusty summons. And new forms and means of applications will continue to fill up the practice manuals and that there is actually an accute problem in the core structure of the Rules concerning civil procedure that has several interesting but inherently unjust manifestations. The problems raise their head primarily in administrative law matters but it is a lot broader than that especially if a person looks at the evolution of the lower courts: the rules of court in the magistrates courts for example have been changed recently (within the last 5 years) to essentially establish a motion proceedure that "mirrors" the practice in the High Court (the old Mag Rule 55 allowed applications to be brought on signature as opposed to notice with founding affidavit). There are several unintended consequences which are of academic interest (for me anyway) and some absolute absurdities coming from some within the legal profession including process going through the regional magistrates court for the variation of a decree of divorce such that a regional magistrate in PE "divorced" a woman from her ex husband twice (that is entered two decrees of divorce after they were already divorced).

Historically interdicts were commenced by way of trial process (issuance of a summons) but that is no longer the case and I would be surprised if a single interdict has been sought in a South African superior court on summons in the last 3 years (nothing in the magistrate's courts could surprise me). Further if somebody wanted to challenge an administrative decision in England or Wales (relevant here because of our pre-constitutional administrative and constitutional law) a writ quo warranto which instituted an action was an approach and I suspect that a similar mandamus action was the route in the Province of Holland - mercifully for British solicitors this is no longer the case. Basically if we were in the 18th century Vodacom and MTN would have to have embarked on dozens of strange and archiac mechanisms including causing ICASA councillors to be arrested (at least nominally) before getting either the interdict or the review properly in the the court - of course those were simpler times and an electronic communications network involved horses with magnets in their saddles. For at least the last 60 years however they have been able to bring an application for an interdict and they can use what is currently Rule 53 to ask the court to review the decision of ICASA.
Two types of relief that are almost axiomatically only obtainable by motion proceedings are (i) ex parte - where the court is approached without the attendance of one of the parties and (ii) urgent relief.

<less of a tangent>
In the main (since at the latest 1965) it is for the person approaching the court to decide whether to bring a matter by way of notice (motion) or summons (trial) and that decision is taken on what course would best serve what the litigant is after. There are a few exceptions: A divorce can only be procured by way of trial (an action for the dissolution of the marriage) - although what in reality happens is that uncontested divorce actions are instituted with a summons but by the time the matter is ripe for trial are enrolled as an uncontested divorce and heard in the "ordinary motion court" (of particular interest in this regard is the very strict practice direction for the regional courts which are really built around "the papers" and are in place for granting divorces) - although I am not sure whether it has to do with the fact that a decree is issued or if concerns status or simply because of the wording of the statute but anyway it does mean that magistrate can't really divorce somebody who is already divorced - but that has never stopped judicial officers from making an ass of the law; on the other hand insolvency must be conducted by motion because of the terms of the statute. Similarly PAJA (discussed a little later) specifically envisages a motion proceedure and Rule 53 (discussed very soon) works on a motion basis and are brought with a special application on a notice of motion.
 
<If you've been skipping over the tangent, now is the time to stop>
It has to be remembered that using an instituting motion there are pitfalls and challenges - an applicant has to "stand or fall on the founding papers" and, while the burden of proof doesn't officially shift. the court accepts the version advanced by the respondents except where the version is patently false -- the Plascon Evans rule which was restated by the SCA in the NDPP v Zuma matter back in 2007. You have therefore quite a different dynamic and disputes involving a dispute of fact are unsuited to motion court. Moreover - and this is the really important thing - institution by motion proceedings are fundamentally rooted in the "inherent jurisdiction" paradigm (consider obsolete chancery writs) and it is for the applicant to "make a proper case" which is not quite the same thing as being right or having the letter of the law on your side. Moreover whilst using a summons to remedy a tort (using the term as a generic, in SA it is delict but I am also including a breach of contract remedied by a monetary award and so on) or to secure a judgment against a recalcitrant debtor does not involve the court looking to its conscience, applying for discretionary relief very much does. In essence approaching the court with a motion in hand means you are asking the court to exercise that judicial discretion which arises in your favour [how much discretion there is being very specific to the case at hand]. If you are asking a court to grant you leave to be heard urgently you can't have created the urgency yourself. Similarly if you are asking the court to find that your rights to be heard have been marginalized by an administrator you cannot sideline other peoples right to be heard by the same regulator.

Rule 53 is a procedure spelt out in the rules for the High Court that allows a person to bring a review application. The body whose decision is being reviewed has to deliver to the Registrar of the Court the record as well as reasons within 15 days of receiving the notice [the National Prosecuting Authority always plays truant to the detriment of the Rule of Law]; the Registrar then makes the record available to the applicant(s) who have to create copies and get indexing and so on done; the parties exchange papers in the process and the application to review (and generally set aside) the decision of somebody is set down to be heard by the required number of judges (for several reasons I would strongly advocate that a decision of a body chaired by a judicial officer should always have more than one judge and the CCC should also have reviews taken to a "divisional court"). Our "pre-constitutional" (the term is problematic because South Africa had a constitution and constitutional jurisprudence) administrative law found this proceedure quite well suited and your general discourse was one of it being shown that an administrative decision was ultra vires - outside the powers of the decision maker (which would arise if the decision maker violated the statute giving it the powers). The Constitution however changes things (mostly for the better but there are pitfalls and I side with the dozen or so writers who have criticized Pharamacutical Manufacturers and Fedsure) but regardless of whether you are an old fart or a new constitutionalist the distinction between an administrator infringing on your rights to liberty and property vs an infringement on something of a more spes nature or where you have in consideration placed property to some purpose - as when you donate money to a trust you are giving the master certain rights to interfere with that property and in simple terms if you form a company you invite the court to uphold the articles.

Okay so taking these distinctions, and the idea of clean hands, into the dispute between the BAUTs and ICASA:
The companies wanted an interdict against ICASA on an urgent basis. As a result they needed to approach the court using Rule 6(12) which deals with urgent applications. When you bring an urgent application you essentially have the ability to dictate time frames and so on but the court grants leave to proceed urgently and you have to establish not only urgency but also the degree of urgency and how it justifies the approach you've taken. ICASA could have argued that the application was not urgent and I strongly felt that MTNs approach was entirely off key in this respect. ICASA postponing the regulations largely represented a preparedness to be reasonable. Together with asking for the urgent interdict they asked ICASA to set aside the regulations by reviewing ICASAs decision to make them.
In particular the companies, in my opinion, made no real case for an urgent interim or final interdict against the regulations kicking in on the 1st April because there was no irreparable harm and the companies failed to take proper precautions against infringing on the rights of 3rd parties - for example contract customers with one of the providers particularly enterprise customers, the BAUTs attempted to claim that they were protecting their rights but were they really? They didn't adopt a rule nisi procedure that would have allowed objectors to write to the registrar without incurring liability for costs (in like manner to dealing with restrictive conditions on land).
To put it simply the companies wanted their non-liberty and property rights to be protected without regard for others rights. The companies ceded the core proprietors right when they applied for an ECA licence in proper consideration for its commercial value.

In the end however the reality is that ICASA made regulations ultra vires and this act demands a competent court of law should set same aside not as a matter of discretion or as a judicial favour to the litigant but rather as the discharging of the courts core function. To break the not referencing and quoting rule - the SCA in the De Lille matter sums up the drum to beat (quoted from Currie and de Waal):
[The Constitution] is the ultimate source of all lawful authority in the country. No Parliament, however bona fide or eminent its membership, no President, however formidible be his reputation or scholarship and no official, however efficient or well meaning,can make any law or perform any act which is not sanctioned by the Constitution. Any citizen adversely affected by any decree, order or action of any official or body, which is not properly authorized by the Constitution is entitiled to the protection of the Courts.

<tangent>
The idea of ultra vires of course has been largely removed ("subsumed") from our law by the Constitutional Court's approach (particularly the Pharmaceutical Manufacturers case) and it really is only the old farts who prefer a little Latin over a lot of English and instead we now apply an entire array of tests involving proportionality, rationality etc ...
</tangent>
 
However a competent court performing the exercise of setting aside faulty regulations does not automatically act on an urgent basis and it would follow processes and procedures which address any legal rights of 3rd parties. A court derives its lawful authority to coercive powers only from the Constitution as much as any other public law body. A party who stood by as faulty processes were adhered to and remained silent if not supportive when the fault served their favour but ran to calamity when otherwise approaches the court anticipating that it has some explaining to do.
Moreover the BAUTs did not frame their case - and how could they - within the stricture that ICASA acted outside of ICASAs powers - in particular they aren't challenging the fundamental question of the legality or "rightness" of the price fixing exercise itself - and instead they relied on the BAUTs rights to administrative justice and in particular they asked the Court to act in terms of PAJA.

So lets look at PAJA - the Promotion of Administrative Justice Act. This statute is designed to radically alter our administrative law setup and place it on a firm "constitutional" basis. One of the things which is envisaged by PAJA is a set of proceedures devised for the administrative courts (historically administrative law was the preserve of the Supreme Court but now certain magistrates have jurisdiction), but the procedures were set aside by a High Court for lack of constitutionality and so PAJA framed applications follow good old Rule 53 which has not been updated when they revised the other rules to allow for further distances and to require giving email and fax addresses.

In my view we need to think of the approach within PAJA and an entire host of "constitutional" jurisprudence as fundamentally of a similar nature to what in English law evolved into "equity" [in addition to the fact that we are dealing with instituting proceedings on motion] and should be viewed through a vain that recognizes this. Therefore it does not hold for an applicant (as opposed to a plaintiff in suit closed between parties) to demand relief in ignorance of the rights, privileges and benefits of others. Of course this view is potentially rebuffed by the fact that the Constitutional Court (again in Pharmaceutical Manufacturers) has strongly argued that all law originates through the constitution [in contrast to holding that all State authority originates from the Constitution - the distinction is subtle but very important]. In reality though all that this means is that "equity has precedence over common law" which was the reality in England for about 80 years until the process towards integration of the courts occurred and should give rise to a separate jurisprudence debate. If we look at the line of cases that have run through our courts on erroneous administrative decisions the Oudekraal, Sanral, and Kouga cases (all of which I've discussed on this forum) can be used to build a patchwork of an approach which recognizes that unlawful administrative decisions may have legal consequences and that it does not do for a person to stand idly as beneficial but unlawful administrative decisions are taken and then pounce when unlawful administrative decisions are taken and hope that the court will give them what they ask for. Instead the "protection of the Courts" might take the form of recognizing a collateral challenge or an order requiring an administrator to adopt remedial measures and recognize a "constitutional damages" claim.

I've looked carefully at the founding papers and cannot see a hint in the correspondence on record of the BAUTs indicating to ICASA that the regulator was failing to afford adequate scope to receiving submissions and so on before the regulations were promulgated. Ultimately the BAUT did not put the administrator to task when the regulator acting irregularly suited them.
If you take a look at the 2011 LLU hearings I posed a related issue to Telkom and one of their in-house lawyers expressed confusion as to my proposition that the clearly expressed view by a regulatory body on the position at law must either be challenged before a competent court or accepted as prima facie correct.

So lets view the steps again:
ICASA made a set of regulations about call termination rates. Effectively in doing this they were continuing an exercise of "interfering with the market" but all of the participants in that market have agreed to this sort of interference within a particular regulatory paradigm and all activities by the participants reinforce the idea of the interference purportedly in the name of the "public interest".

Neither Vodacom nor MTN have ever entered a challenge to the justice of the regulator price fixing and on the contrary have exerted considerable energy towards directing how the regulator fixes prices. In my view such conduct in essence acts as an estoppel against the right of the regulator to apply this sort of "public interest" approach onto the BAUT because the BAUT have repeatedly represented themselves as bound to same.
 
<To go on a tangent again>
Now Arthur and most libertarians are likely to take issue with the idea of a "regulatory body" having a determining role in the operation of the market. What they are failing to distinguish between is the jurisdiction of ICASA that arises through coercion (which is bad) and that which arises through jurisdictional assurance and ascension. This second type of jurisdiction is difficult to fully explain and define but it is a very important feature of every society: If a group of persons agree to a set of rules and a manner of resolving their disputes; if they form customs and standards (protocols); if they make representations and act on the representations made among themselves to give rise to reasonable expectations; if they form mechanisms of registering and attesting to property rights; if they in short follow a law common amongst themselves we recognize the legal authority and justness of those laws.
Recognizing the mutual assurance of practice by such a community is recognizing the agency of the members of that community and is the very foundation of any civilized legal system. Now obviously I have presented the extreme of the proposition but step through the core idea of being held only to that which you represent as undertaking is what underlies the entire issue.

Now in our communications industry we have a situation where the State using the force of coercion to determine who may participate in the market - and this is largely directed towards imposing a specific ownership regime and "protecting" the investments of participants in the market. In the process a whole lot of nonsense that needs to be untangled enters in.
However nobody has ever put a gun to the BAUTs head and told them to enter the market under the prevailing conditions. Instead they in consideration of the massive profits available entered by licence application into the market knowing that the call termination rates were regulated
(obviously I am simplifying the process here because the ECA was promulgated in discussion with the BAUTs who entered the market earlier) in a particular paradigm. In particular VC and MTN had the consideration and enrichment of asymmetric termination from Telkom.

The US State of Delaware remains the global headquarters of many of the worlds largest companies as a "corporate haven" (IIRC at one stage the value of "assets under management" within the scope of the Delaware Court of Chancery was larger than the rest of North America). The term chancery here should awaken the fact that we are dealing with an animal with discretion. Why incorporate in Delaware? Because the court "interferes" and imparts its own ideas about justice but everybody knows what those ideas are and there are tomes of precedent and practice and there is a certainty and flexibility that is preferable.
When a person chooses to use the instrument of a trust they choose to invite the courts to give effect to their instrument. The real travesty of natural justice is to be found in jurisdictions that have forced inheritance laws or which restrain the freedom to knowingly contract - so in South Africa the problem isn't that there is a default in the National Credit Act it is the fact that the state has prohibited people from making their own agreements. There is little grounds to take issue with the mergers of public companies having a public law tribunal because shareholders have elected to public standing in consideration of the benefits thereof.

Almost every monopoly that is draining our economy is a consequence of the State having granted a monopoly or assumed responsibility for some sector of the economy. It is a torturous and necessary process to dismantly those strangleholds and it is only the mechanisms of public law that can unwind the State's interventionist failings.

So I am in full favour of the idea of a "companies tribunal" and a "competition tribunal" and these sorts of things for the better facilitation of commerce and the idea of a competitions appeal court is in my mind only odd because it should be a general appeals court from a bundle of chancery-esque bodies. The problem is not that we have a competition commission and tribunal but rather that the scope of a right to intervene (the "vires") by competition authorities is far to broad under our law: the travesty is that a man cannot enter into the scope of commerce free from fear that some government minister is not going to restrain his trade (and the current competition laws are a lot better in this respect than the prohibited business practices legislation before them), but this is different to the situation of companies that have solicited exclusive licence through a public law bestowal from being held by public law to the charge upon which they solicited the licence.

The Complaints and Compliance Committee of ICASA really should be a tribunal and jurisdiction to set aside ICASA regulations on grounds beyond what I would term "strict law" with appeals going to an appeals court (the current competition appeals court structure) which is presided over by ordinary judges but is administered outside of the High Court (and has a national bench). Lets not forget that ICASA is constantly undermined by the fact that the ruling party is not a fan of dismounting the State from the economy (until they aren't the ruling party ...) and that if we were to see a proper dismounting and growth of consent built ecosystem either the market participants would move towards their own arbitral tribunals or the CCC would gradually be less and less "government appointed".

- as a bit of a side note I must admit that I am surprised neither of the BAUTs went the route of ignoring the regulations and on being hauled before the CCC launching a "collateral challenge". I avoided mentioning this option on this forum until the High Court made a finding lest I gave the BAUT any ideas that they'd want to use, now of course such an approach would be contempt of court ;)

Okay so back to trying to explain in laymans terms what I meant:
Vodacom and MTN each approached the court to ask the court for two things:
[1] stopping ICASA from implementing the CTR reforms immediately (and to the prejudice of third parties) by way of an urgent interdict claiming that they would suffer irreparable harm. With the interdict running until the decision in [2] was taken.
[2] to review the decision taken by ICASA in making the regulations in accordance with PAJA and having the review set aside the regulations which would be heard many months down the line

When they were in court MTN realized that they had a shot at getting the final relief "urgently" they amended their notice of motion to asing for one thing: an urgent setting aside of the regulations in terms of PAJA. The reason they had this shot was because ICASA behaved honestly.

What the court ended up finding was that the change in tactic was acceptable and so it looked at the matter through the PAJA lens and in the process was obliged to apply its conscience and with it to consider a broad picture of the "public interest" ultimately the court is called to deliver that which is in the interests of justice. PAJA allows a court to do what it did and what the court effectively has done is to refuse to condone the BAUTs attempt to strong arm the regulator while restraining the regulator to proper legal processes. To claim vindication for having the intelligence to see the opportunity to consolidate the approach is in my view daft and frankly if the BAUTs were actually concerned with the Rule of Law they would have approached the court in the first place with an order in the vain granted by the court and I strongly suspect that if the whole affair was started with such an approach - Dear ICASA, the regulations are faulty, we propose asking the Court to set them aside but to retain operation for 6 months while we put together new ones - ICASA might well have entered an intention to abide and the Minister wouldn't have said nasty things.


So going forward we remain with a situation where it is high time that the ugly five get their legal teams to actually sit around the table together with their CTOs of various shapes and forms. A proper outcome will almost invariably involve migrating away from the setting of call termination rates and will include ensuring that there is investment in internetworking. Honestly there are at least a dozen people who have (and can still) properly facilitated talks between the operators to a lawful, rational and mutually beneficial outcome and there remains at least half a dozen win-win outcomes available; what is needed is a change in attitude from the CEOs and if they fail to deliver this change it is ultimately their shareholders who are exposed (particularly MTN SA). [Of course I am always in the market to sell my soul to corporate for the right motivation ;)]
The real tragedy is that 18 advocates were deemed necessary by supposedly rational entities to appear in court to deal with this matter and considerable energy wasted while a very ugly spat was playing out in the press. The greatness of the outcome however is that ICASA is at least being put step by step onto the correct path and hopefully will ensure that they jack up their in house legal department. So in my view it was a wonderful day for the Rule of Law and a bad month for demonstrating leadership in South Africa - when CEOs say stupider things than campaigning politicians in an election year you really have to worry.

Let this be a lesson, never ever ask for an explanation in layman's terms ;)
:p
 
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