Muslims protect churches

[porchrat]

Though shalt do the WAKA WAKA

Sorry I couldnt resist even though I know you mean Sharia law

I just refuse to give it the respect some people think it deserves. So it is forever Shakira law to me.

Quite frankly I don't see why I should respect a justice (I use this word only in it's loosest sense) system that seeks to treat people differently based upon gender lines or allows for death by stoning based on the word of just someone's husband.

Please all you foaming-at-the-mouth crazies out there that like to scream "MUSKIM HATER!!!1!!" at the top of your lungs whenever anyone criticises any aspect of Islam note that I don't hate Muslims. There are just some aspects of Islam that very clearly push for inequality and that I can't accept.

 

[Who Me]

Maybe, but I think there are some that would condemn the Islamic community regardless.

True, however the criticism would be against practices that they disagree with eg Sharia Law etc, but that could then be debated without the need for violence

 

[Who Me]

I just refuse to give it the respect some people think it deserves. So it is forever Shakira law to me.

Quite frankly I don't see why I should respect a justice (I use this word only in it's loosest sense) system that seeks to treat people differently based upon gender lines or allows for death by stoning based on the word of just someone's husband.

Please all you foaming-at-the-mouth crazies out there that like to scream "MUSKIM HATER!!!1!!" at the top of your lungs whenever anyone criticises any aspect of Islam note that I don't hate Muslims. There are just some aspects of Islam that very clearly push for inequality and that I can't accept.

Id say rather get it correct as it may confuse some people as to the issue

I agree with you, there are plenty of aspects of the Islamic that I consider to be irreconcilable with my faith and beliefs.

I am quite happy to debate the issues with the pen rather than the sword

 

[porchrat]

Id say rather get it correct as it may confuse some people as to the issue

I agree with you, there are plenty of aspects of the Islamic that I consider to be irreconcilable with my faith and beliefs.

I am quite happy to debate the issues with the pen rather than the sword

I agree entirely. Violence is never an answer unless you're defending yourself or someone you're obligated to protect. Religious differences are not a justification for violence. Talk it out.

At the same time though it needs to be realised that the history of the West means that it doesn't abide gender discrimination when it comes to things like the justice system. Shakira law either needs to change or be discarded but in it's current form it will not be accepted by the West and will remain a point of bitter contention. Christianity had to go through similar changes. The law of the land has replaced the laws in the OT (thank goodness) and Christians today could not follow the law of the OT to the letter without being arrested. I believe a similar process needs to take place with Islam if it is ever going to exist peacefully alongside a human rights conscious Western world.

 

[Ronjay]

I don't like Shakira Law either (poor Shakira)

Problem is that when we condemn the people and not the actions then we close off dialogue. Muslims are not evil, but some of the practices of some Muslims are bad to our way of thinking. To change such practices one needs to change peoples perceptions, screaming Islam is evil is not going to do that. We should be opening minds with more positive ideas, not closing them with insults and the spouting of the rhetoric of those with ulterior motives.

 

[porchrat]

I don't like Shakira Law either (poor Shakira)

Problem is that when we condemn the people and not the actions then we close off dialogue. Muslims are not evil, but some of the practices of some Muslims are bad to our way of thinking. To change such practices one needs to change peoples perceptions, screaming Islam is evil is not going to do that. We should be opening minds with more positive ideas, not closing them with insults and the spouting of the rhetoric of those with ulterior motives.

A perfectly sensible attitude. The problem is that you're dealing with the laws of a god here and often at that point "sensible" doesn't always apply. Often people refuse to hear anything that casts cherished beliefs in a negative light. The majority of the Muslims I have encountered on this very forum function on the assumption that the laws are correct and cannot be changed. What is wrong is instead my perception of the rules and they seek to try and rationalise it... you know... as though you could actually rationalise sexism . No talk of human rights or equality makes a dent in the armour. It happens with all religions. Try arguing to the average Christian that women should be allowed to become priests. Human rights and equal treatment don't matter to many Christians when it comes to their beliefs and so it seems to go with many Muslims too.

The people in those Islamic countries that practice Shakira law need to make the change and abandon religious law and adopt secular law just as Western countries have. It is however something they need to do on their own I think. It can't be forced.

 

[FunkyToyz]

A perfectly sensible attitude. The problem is that you're dealing with the laws of a god here and often at that point "sensible" doesn't always apply. Often people refuse to hear anything that casts cherished beliefs in a negative light. The majority of the Muslims I have encountered on this very forum function on the assumption that the laws are correct and cannot be changed. What is wrong is instead my perception of the rules and they seek to try and rationalise it... you know... as though you could actually rationalise sexism . No talk of human rights or equality makes a dent in the armour. It happens with all religions. Try arguing to the average Christian that women should be allowed to become priests. Human rights and equal treatment don't matter to many Christians when it comes to their beliefs and so it seems to go with many Muslims too.

The people in those Islamic countries that practice Shakira law need to make the change and abandon religious law and adopt secular law just as Western countries have. It is however something they need to do on their own I think. It can't be forced.

The Stoning of Soraya M. - guess you watched the movie or perhaps even read the book. As a Muslim, I disagree and it is not in the Shariah Law that women be treated as how they were treated in this instance. Yes, there is a law that states Adultery is punishable by stoning, but according to my knowledge, if the person has been convicted fairly and with hard evidence. This punishment in this world for the sin is extremely mild compared to the punishment in the hereafter and therefore because we all want to enter Jannah, we'd rather take the punishment in this life than one in the hereafter.

Please, I ask of all you, do not use what has happened in Iran to Soraya as ammo to shoot down Islam. In fact it is quite the opposite of what Islam teaches us.

With regard all other comments posted on this thread - it is pointless debating, and I think I've mentioned this before. I am sure that for every piece of 'evidence' showing how cruel and inhumane Islam is, one could find similar instances for other religions.

Over the last few pages, the only sensible comments I have read came from Ronjay.

 

[Fazda]

Over the last few pages, the only sensible comments I have read came from Ronjay.

+1000

 

[porchrat]

The Stoning of Soraya M. - guess you watched the movie or perhaps even read the book. As a Muslim, I disagree and it is not in the Shariah Law that women be treated as how they were treated in this instance. Yes, there is a law that states Adultery is punishable by stoning, but according to my knowledge, if the person has been convicted fairly and with hard evidence. This punishment in this world for the sin is extremely mild compared to the punishment in the hereafter and therefore because we all want to enter Jannah, we'd rather take the punishment in this life than one in the hereafter.

Please, I ask of all you, do not use what has happened in Iran to Soraya as ammo to shoot down Islam. In fact it is quite the opposite of what Islam teaches us.

With regard all other comments posted on this thread - it is pointless debating, and I think I've mentioned this before. I am sure that for every piece of 'evidence' showing how cruel and inhumane Islam is, one could find similar instances for other religions.

Over the last few pages, the only sensible comments I have read came from Ronjay.

I don't know who this Soraya is. All I know is that people are treated differently along gender lines under Shakira law and that the law punishes people for things along religious lines whether or not those people ascribe to that religion. This is not a fair practice. You cannot force people under pain of death to ascribe to your worldview. All a justice system should do is decide what is and isn't required to maintain everyone's rights. Anything beyond that is left up to the individual.

In order to be properly accepted by the Western world Islamic countries need to stop the practice of Shakira law as the national legal system and embrace human rights and the concept of individual freedom. Without doing this tensions will remain.

 

[Fazda]

I don't know who this Soraya is. All I know is that people are treated differently along gender lines under Shakira law and that the law punishes people for things along religious lines whether or not those people ascribe to that religion. This is not a fair practice. You cannot force people under pain of death to ascribe to your worldview. All a justice system should do is decide what is and isn't required to maintain everyone's rights. Anything beyond that is left up to the individual.

In order to be properly accepted by the Western world Islamic countries need to stop the practice of Shakira law as the national legal system and embrace human rights and the concept of individual freedom. Without doing this tensions will remain.

And here all the time I thought that Shakira was a singer! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakira

porchrat if you are going to seriously debate something, for Pete's sake see that you at least get your basics right!!

 

[Fazda]

Well i'd swop any day. waka waka

ie.: http://mybroadband.co.za/vb/showthread.php/102376-Saudi-Arabia-Unrecognized-Apartheid-State-or-worse

Diffrence between Shakira and Sharia:

Firstly off, here is Shakira:

http://www.google.co.uk/images?um=1...ch:1&sa=1&q="shakira"&aq=f&aqi=g7g-m1&aql=&oq

Secondly and lastly, here is Sharia:
http://www.google.co.uk/images?um=1...&sa=1&q="sharia+law"&aq=f&aqi=g7g-m1&aql=&oq=

Which all goes to underline the fact that certain people on this forum will debate (?)/stir, whatever you want to call it about something they have no idea about whatsoever.

If you are going to enter a debate do so with at least some knowledge on the subject - to start shouting the odds about "Shakira" Law when you don't even realise that you are spelling the word incorrectly is hypocrisy in the extreme!

 

[porchrat]

And here all the time I thought that Shakira was a singer! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakira

porchrat if you are going to seriously debate something, for Pete's sake see that you at least get your basics right!!

If you are going to enter a debate do so with at least some knowledge on the subject - to start shouting the odds about "Shakira" Law when you don't even realise that you are spelling the word incorrectly is hypocrisy in the extreme!

You might want to take a read back in this VERY THREAD about why I use that term. Don't blame me for your being too lazy to read a thread properly I won't repeat my reasons.

Now either address my points or don't take part in the discussion but please don't try to deviate the discussion. This is dishonest behaviour.

 

[Pitbull]

You might want to take a read back in this VERY THREAD about why I use that term. Don't blame me for your being too lazy to read a thread properly I won't repeat my reasons.

Now either address my points or don't take part in the discussion but please don't try to deviate the discussion. This is dishonest behaviour.

lol what?

 

[Fazda]

You might want to take a read back in this VERY THREAD about why I use that term. Don't blame me for your being too lazy to read a thread properly I won't repeat my reasons.

Now either address my points or don't take part in the discussion but please don't try to deviate the discussion. This is dishonest behaviour.

What utter bollocks! The fact that you deliberately choose to say Shakira instead of Sharia shows that you couldn't give a tinker's damn about the subject. It is YOUR behaviour that is not only dishonest, but reprehensible!

 

[porchrat]

What utter bollocks! The fact that you deliberately choose to say Shakira instead of Sharia shows that you couldn't give a tinker's damn about the subject. It is YOUR behaviour that is not only dishonest, but reprehensible!

Which part of it is utter bollocks?

Like I said. Look back and find my reason. Don't be lazy and then purposefully misrepresent me by claiming that I don't realise I'm spelling it incorrectly. This is dishonest behaviour. I have been very upfront about why I choose to use the term Shakira. There is nothing dishonest about my behaviour.

 

[porchrat]

lol what?

It is indeed. Unless you think not addressing my points and instead trying to draw the discussion towards a falsified impression that I don't know what I'm talking about despite my stating my reasons for the use of Shakira earlier is a perfectly straightforward way to behave?

You think diversion is honest?

It annoys me when people won't engage openly and honestly and I feel I need to point it out when people try something sneaky instead of just addressing points raised in a straightforward manner.

 

[Fazda]

Which part of it is utter bollocks?

Like I said. Look back and find my reason. Don't be lazy and then purposefully misrepresent me by claiming that I don't realise I'm spelling it incorrectly. This is dishonest behaviour. I have been very upfront about why I choose to use the term Shakira. There is nothing dishonest about my behaviour.

Oh please, don't come with that cr@p!

The only dishonest deliberate mis representation in this thread is yours.

I had no intention of derailing anything by pointing out your deliberate misuse of a word. I also couldn't give a damn why you deliberately choose to misspell a word.

FFS we are supposed to be adults here. If you want to debate Sharia Law, then spell the bloody word correctly. You are acting like a sandpit kid at school!

 

[porchrat]

The only dishonest deliberate mis representation in this thread is yours.

How so?

I had no intention of derailing anything by pointing out your deliberate misuse of a word. I also couldn't give a damn why you deliberately choose to misspell a word.

Ah but you didn't point out my deliberate misuse of a word. You pointed out my mistaken misuse of a word. No such event transpired. You misrepresented my position entirely.

FFS we are supposed to be adults here. If you want to debate Sharia Law, then spell the bloody word correctly. You are acting like a sandpit kid at school!

Like I said look up my reason. It is a valid one. It is also a readily revealed reason. I am totally honest about why I choose to use Shakira. You may not like that I use it and that is fine but I'm not here to do things you like. If I wish to call it "Shakey-shakey boom-boom" then that is my right. If you don't want to debate me because you don't like the nasty words and they make you cry then that is your choice. That doesn't mean you get to make assumptions about why I use that word though.

 

[Pitbull]

How so?



Ah but you didn't point out my deliberate misuse of a word. You pointed out my mistaken misuse of a word. No such event transpired. You misrepresented my position entirely.




Like I said look up my reason. It is a valid one. It is also a readily revealed reason. I am totally honest about why I choose to use Shakira. You may not like that I use it and that is fine but I'm not here to do things you like. If I wish to call it "Shakey-shakey boom-boom" then that is my right. If you don't want to debate me because you don't like the nasty words and they make you cry then that is your choice. That doesn't mean you get to make assumptions about why I use that word though.

Oh please, don't come with that cr@p!

The only dishonest deliberate mis representation in this thread is yours.

I had no intention of derailing anything by pointing out your deliberate misuse of a word. I also couldn't give a damn why you deliberately choose to misspell a word.

FFS we are supposed to be adults here. If you want to debate Sharia Law, then spell the bloody word correctly. You are acting like a sandpit kid at school!

porchrat, you are aware that you just proved his point right?

 

[Fazda]

porchrat if you wish to be treated as an adult in what is supposed to be a Forum for adult debate, for god's sake act like one.