Muslims protect churches

[Ronjay]

Ronjay did you read my previous post where I stated the following?



Did you read the wiki link I posted; it gave a detailed look at the period and Pius's actions.

Yes I did read Wiki. Actually before you gave the link. Not the only source of info on Pius Xii, and a little short on info actually. Still a good read.

As for Luther well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_and_antisemitism

Luther was a bigot and his written teachings allowed German Protestants an excuse to be bigots.

Lets see
- Mohhamad Cartoons resulted in attacks on Chrisatains around the world
- Movie submission - director killed; Submission 2 - threats of violance
- South Park - Threats made against creators
- Threat to burn Koran resulted in violent protests around the world
- Pope quotes a historical document in a lecture and violence erupts
- Satanic Verses controversy muslims ordered to kill Salman Rushdie's
- Abdul Rahman - converts to Christianity a personal decisions most Muslims in afghan want him killed
- Geert Wilder’s film results in death threats and threats of violence

The list of stuff you are providing as proof of Islam's evil intent is pretty similar to stuff that Christian Churches used to do as well, Remember the Inquisition? The persecution of scientists? The Spanish conquest of South America and forced conversions (convert or die)?

The Christian church has done some horrible things in the past which contradicted the core message of Christianity

Anyway, the same can be said about Islam, dude. Fundamentalists are doing horrible things that contradict the core message of Islam.

People will be people whether they are Buddhist Christian Muslim Hindu or scientologist etc they all have the capacity to claim that their actions are sanctioned by their faith while nothing could be further from the truth

Exactly.

What we are saying is that the majority must take a stand against those who would use Islam to commit violence, what is so wrong about that?

Nothing what so ever, only some guys use this question as an excuse to point to Islam as evil, instead of as a legitimate question.

 

[Lightscribe]

Forgive me, but I cannot in any way, take seriously any one that does not know how to spell 'Muslim'.

Other words for Muslim

The ordinary word in English is "Muslim", pronounced /ˈmʊslɪm/ or /ˈmʌzləm/. The word is pronounced [ˈmʊslɪm] in Arabic. It is sometimes transliterated "Moslem", an older, possibly Persian-based spelling. This can be felt to be an abuse of the word.[13] “Submitter” is the English equivalent of the Arabic word “Muslim”.[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim

 

[Ronjay]

It is sometimes transliterated "Moslem", an older, possibly Persian-based spelling. This can be felt to be an abuse of the word.

 

[porchrat]

It is sometimes transliterated "Moslem", an older, possibly Persian-based spelling. This can be felt to be an abuse of the word.

felt != is.

If it was not meant as an insult by the one saying it and you choose to interpret it as an insult then that is your problem.

 

[Lightscribe]

felt != is.

If it was not meant as an insult by the one saying it and you choose to interpret it as an insult then that is your problem.

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Ronjay]

felt != is.

If it was not meant as an insult by the one saying it and you choose to interpret it as an insult then that is your problem.

I'm not insulted, I'm not a Muslim.

 

[porchrat]

I'm not insulted, I'm not a Muslim.

Sorry I didn't mean "you" as in "Ronjay" I meant "you" as in "any appropriate second party". I probably should have used "one" instead. My bad.

 

[Ronjay]

Sorry I didn't mean "you" as in "Ronjay" I meant "you" as in "any appropriate second party". I probably should have used "one" instead. My bad.

Just playing with you.

 

[porchrat]

Just playing with you.

You bugger

 

[Garson007]

There sure is a lot of Islamic hate in this thread...

 

[Lightscribe]

There sure is a lot of Islamic hate in this thread...

Yes, sorry for pointing it out... Hopefully Muslims will understand how their hate is being used by the soviets, to have free cannon fodder, for the fight against the West. I have also pointed out, how those used by the soviets, are dealt with, once no longer needed.

 

[Garson007]

Lightscribe, time to return to the cushioned room for you...

I just now notice that my previous post was ambiguous. I meant the hatred of Islam.

 

[Lightscribe]

Lightscribe, time to return to the cushioned room for you...

I just now notice that my previous post was ambiguous. I meant the hatred of Islam.

I know. I then used your post, to show again, that it's not non Muslims, that hate absolutely everyone else.

 

[Who Me]

As for the Catholic church - It's a satanic church in my view..end of story

You are not a member of the westboro baptist church by any chance?

 

[Who Me]

Duplicate post

 

[Who Me]

Wow I thought this thread was done and dead, Hope everyone had a good weekend I had a bit of and extended one only comming in to working today.
anyhow WOW really good stuff there Ronjay, don't get me wrong I am not looking for ammunition against the Christians and stuff but you make a really good point.

I agree with you 100% there is no point in saying my group is better than yours cos there crazies out there just ruining things for everyone else, to put in mild way,

I think religious tolerance is still a far way to go but these are baby steps to get there hopefully we can get there in our time, I would hate to die with out trying my hardest to get there(religious tolerance). Sure We may disagree on aspects of religion thats not the point, I as Muslim respect you and see you as a human being first and foremost, our difference in opinion when comes to religious matters takes second preference to this, this my fellow forumites is what Islam has taught me.

Ronjay does make a good point, however based on what he is saying you would have thought that today’s religious communities would have learnt to stand up and in one voice condemn any violence or oppression that is justified through the use of religion.

The majority of us would not change our beliefs based on what some one else tells us

Mineer that is nice to know, however plenty of others within your faith have not got that memo, based on the violence we see direct at other faiths .

Suicide bombers target Karbala pilgrims
http://www.iol.co.za/news/world/suicide-bombers-target-karbala-pilgrims-1.1014871

Coptic Pope cancels mass as fears rise
http://www.iol.co.za/news/africa/coptic-pope-cancels-mass-as-fears-rise-1.1013800

Pakistan assassin a dedicated cop’
http://www.iol.co.za/news/world/pakistan-assassin-a-dedicated-cop-1.1012344

Iran rounds up ‘house church’ Christians
http://www.iol.co.za/news/world/iran-rounds-up-house-church-christians-1.1011127

 

[Who Me]

Ronjay;5424015]Yes I did read Wiki. Actually before you gave the link. Not the only source of info on Pius Xii, and a little short on info actually. Still a good read.

Wiki the source of all knowledge.

I had a look at some other links but if we had to sift through all the links it might take a while, I also use this site www.newadvent.com as it is a catholic encyclopedia


QUOTE]Luther was a bigot and his written teachings allowed German Protestants an excuse to be bigots. [/QUOTE]

Based on what I read I have to agree

The list of stuff you are providing as proof of Islam's evil intent is pretty similar to stuff that Christian Churches used to do as well, Remember the Inquisition? The persecution of scientists? The Spanish conquest of South America and forced conversions (convert or die)?

The list is not proof of Islam’s evil intent but it shows that there are a lot of adherents who consider violence a acceptable response, which according to you goes against the tenants of Islam

Yes the Christian church has a lot to answer for based on its past actions, but that is history while the actions we are questioning are occurring in the present. Does that mean, that based on the church’s actions in the past, it is okay for people to commit acts of violence in the name of Islam today

Anyway, the same can be said about Islam, dude. Fundamentalists are doing horrible things that contradict the core message of Islam.

Westboro Baptist church springs to mind on the Christian side

Nothing what so ever, only some guys use this question as an excuse to point to Islam as evil, instead of as a legitimate question

True, but I think it is something that the Islamic community needs to address, as it will help in removing most of the stigma attached to Islam by the western world

 

[Ronjay]

....you would have thought that today’s religious communities would have learnt to stand up and in one voice condemn any violence or oppression that is justified through the use of religion.

Agreed

The majority of us would not change our beliefs based on what some one else tells us

True.

Wiki the source of all knowledge.

I had a look at some other links but if we had to sift through all the links it might take a while, I also use this site www.newadvent.com as it is a catholic encyclopedia

Wiki is good,yip.

Yes the Christian church has a lot to answer for based on its past actions, but that is history while the actions we are questioning are occurring in the present. Does that mean, that based on the church’s actions in the past, it is okay for people to commit acts of violence in the name of Islam today

I've always seen history as important. Unlike some in government that see history as unimportant, unless it suites them, history can teach us where things went wrong for people in the past and give us indicators of where we can put things right. If we don't acknowledge our past, how can we change our future? And, yeah,it is definitely not OK for the extremists to do anything in the name of Islam.

True, but I think it is something that the Islamic community needs to address, as it will help in removing most of the stigma attached to Islam by the western world

Maybe, but I think there are some that would condemn the Islamic community regardless.

 

[porchrat]

Maybe, but I think there are some that would condemn the Islamic community regardless.

Unfortunately it is hard not to condemn things like Shakira law. The Western world is never going to accept a "justice" system that treats men and women differently or demands death by stoning for things like adultery. I can see no way to address these issues that will actually satisfy the West short of abandoning the practice of them altogether.

 

[Who Me]

Unfortunately it is hard not to condemn things like Shakira law. .

Though shalt do the WAKA WAKA

Sorry I couldnt resist even though I know you mean Sharia law