Muslims protect churches

[Who Me]

Yes!! Like how the world governments have stopped crime or like how all the christians have stopped priests from molesting children.

Point understood?

Fail point

Both crime and abuse are usually carried out by individuals, which makes it very difficult to prevent before it occurs.

Whereas acts of violence carried out in the name of Islam are usually perpetrated by groups which are well known, there are also plenty of Muslim clerics who preach hatred against people, religions and countries on a regular basis. Yet their fellow Muslims do not attempt to reign them in or drown out their hate speech.

 

[CaTcH21]

Fail point

Both crime and abuse are usually carried out by individuals, which makes it very difficult to prevent before it occurs.

Whereas acts of violence carried out in the name of Islam are usually perpetrated by groups which are well known, there are also plenty of Muslim clerics who preach hatred against people, religions and countries on a regular basis. Yet their fellow Muslims do not attempt to reign them in or drown out their hate speech.

when and where ?

 

[Fazda]

Fail point

Both crime and abuse are usually carried out by individuals, which makes it very difficult to prevent before it occurs.

Whereas acts of violence carried out in the name of Islam are usually perpetrated by groups which are well known, there are also plenty of Muslim clerics who preach hatred against people, religions and countries on a regular basis. Yet their fellow Muslims do not attempt to reign them in or drown out their hate speech.

No Fail Point to you! Do you ever think before you write such trash?

Looks as if you are pretty well connected to the Muslim clerics to know just how many of them are preaching hatred. You attend mosque often to know all this?

 

[Ronjay]

Ok fine, being ignorant of the history of the crusades is one thing - it did happen a long time ago. However, likening WWII to a religious struggle is mind bogglingly stupid. Well done, you just received a belated "Most Retarded Post of the Day Award".

Where did I say that ww2 was a religious struggle. However, the attempt by Who Me to take the high ground on the basis that Christians would never commit evil in the name of God is a laughable one. If you are trying to deny involvement of Christian churches in WW2 then it is you who needs to get a little education on the subject.

For starters, There are photographs of religious leaders from both sides, Allied and Axis, blessing soldiers as they prepaired to go and fight. Do you know how Pope Pius Xii felt about the Jews before 1939? He hated them. Just do a little research on him. In deed under Pacelli (Pius Xii) before he became Pope, the Church signed a pact with Mussolini called the Lateren Treaty and Hitler later would seek a simmilar agreeement. Pacelli would later call Mussolini as a "man sent by Providence". Both Pacelli and Hitler would say that they would devote there strengths to strengthening ties between the Church and Germany. A contract (Riech's Concordat) was signed between the Pope Pius Xi and the Nazi party that effectivelly insured that no Catholic could express any protest against the Nazi's, as the Pope is infalable after all. By the way, how do you think Hitler came to power? The fact that 23 million German Catholics could not appose him might have a little to do with it, don't you think? There was not one single out cry of condemnation from the Vatican through out the preceding years leading to the war or during it.

The call from the Nazi party during the War to unite was to the German Protestant's and that "Possitive Christianity" was a part of the Nazi Programme (constitution). Hitler himself wanted to establish a German Reich Church for Protestants. Actually the Protestant church of Germany was out right supportive of Nazism, using the anti-semetic teachings of Luther as a basis for their support.

Anyway, the idea that the wholly political movement of Nazism did not find itself formed from the teachings of the Christian religions of Germany with it's anti-semetic overtones, is a ridiculous one. It was certainly not a new idea to be against Jews, just a capitalization of the Nazi party on sentiments of the people based on religious teachings.

Again, the notion that Christians would never use their faith to commit atrocities in the name of God but Islam does is a rediculous concept. While the War started for wholly political reasons, it was not unsupported by the Christian faiths.

I suggest that before climbing on a horse of any height, and make a post in an attempt to belittle someone, that you do a little research on the subject. You might learn something and you wont hurt yourself on the way down from being knocked off said horse.

 

[Who Me]

No Fail Point to you! Do you ever think before you write such trash?

Looks as if you are pretty well connected to the Muslim clerics to know just how many of them are preaching hatred. You attend mosque often to know all this?

CaTcH21
when and where ?

The internet is not your friend

http://www.google.co.za/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=muslim+clerics+++hate+speech&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

Why do you consider this trash?

 

[Who Me]

Where did I say that ww2 was a religious struggle. However, the attempt by Who Me to take the high ground on the basis that Christians would never commit evil in the name of God is a laughable one. If you are trying to deny involvement of Christian churches in WW2 then it is you who needs to get a little education on the subject.

Okay where did I say that here is what I posted

As for Moral Superiority, Jesus never encouraged violence or hatred but rather preached peace and forgiveness. I would say that is a morally superior message.

For starters, There are photographs of religious leaders from both sides, Allied and Axis, blessing soldiers as they prepaired to go and fight.

As for WW1/2 this was the norm among the European nations except the soviets (atheists), but religion was not the cause, it was used to bolster the troop’s morale. It always helps if you think god is on your side

Do you know how Pope Pius Xii felt about the Jews before 1939? He hated them. Just do a little research on him.

Please provide a link

In deed under Pacelli (Pius Xii) before he became Pope, the Church signed a pact with Mussolini called the Lateren Treaty and Hitler later would seek a simmilar agreeement. Pacelli would later call Mussolini as a "man sent by Providence". Both Pacelli and Hitler would say that they would devote there strengths to strengthening ties between the Church and Germany. A contract (Riech's Concordat) was signed between the Pope Pius Xi and the Nazi party that effectivelly insured that no Catholic could express any protest against the Nazi's, as the Pope is infalable after all. By the way, how do you think Hitler came to power? The fact that 23 million German Catholics could not appose him might have a little to do with it, don't you think? There was not one single out cry of condemnation from the Vatican through out the preceding years leading to the war or during it.

Thanks for mentioning the above it made me go and check your facts and they made for a very interesting read, true he did make many mistakes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII#World_War_II

You seem to have only picked the bits you liked

As for Papal infallibility you don’t seem to understand the concept, here is a link which might help you
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm

The call from the Nazi party during the War to unite was to the German Protestant's and that "Possitive Christianity" was a part of the Nazi Programme (constitution). Hitler himself wanted to establish a German Reich Church for Protestants. Actually the Protestant church of Germany was out right supportive of Nazism, using the anti-semetic teachings of Luther as a basis for their support.

Anyway, the idea that the wholly political movement of Nazism did not find itself formed from the teachings of the Christian religions of Germany with it's anti-semetic overtones, is a ridiculous one. It was certainly not a new idea to be against Jews, just a capitalization of the Nazi party on sentiments of the people based on religious teachings.

Hitler had many ideas when it came to religion but to blame his actions and those of the Nazi party on one church is a bit far fetched
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_views#Views_as_an_adult

Again, the notion that Christians would never use their faith to commit atrocities in the name of God but Islam does is a rediculous concept. While the War started for wholly political reasons, it was not unsupported by the Christian faiths.

People of all faith commit atrocities in the name of their faith, usually based on their own interpretations and not the actual core of the faith in question

I suggest that before climbing on a horse of any height, and make a post in an attempt to belittle someone, that you do a little research on the subject. You might learn something and you wont hurt yourself on the way down from being knocked off said horse.

I am quite happy on my horse and I did not attempt to belittle any one but rather to debate them. As for trying to knock me off my horse, bring it on

 

[CaTcH21]

The internet is not your friend

http://www.google.co.za/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=muslim+clerics+++hate+speech&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

Why do you consider this trash?

Boo hoo, cry me a f'kin river. Those are the minority (surely with some hidden
agenda ) who preach their own garbage on what they interpret of the Quraan.

Unless you hear credible Muslim clerics promoting hate speech yourself, i suggest you keep quiet. You ( and your friends, you know who you are ) are the true definition of the word Imbecile.

 

[Who Me]

Boo hoo, cry me a f'kin river. Those are the minority (surely with some hidden
agenda ) who preach their own garbage on what they interpret of the Quraan.

there are also plenty of Muslim clerics who preach hatred against people, religions and countries on a regular basis.

But is does happen correct?

Unless you hear credible Muslim clerics promoting hate speech yourself, i suggest you keep quiet.

Who determines who is credible?

Why should I keep quite?

You ( and your friends, you know who you are ) are the true definition of the word Imbecile

Why, because we question you?

 

[Ronjay]

Okay where did I say that here is what I posted

As for Moral Superiority, Jesus never encouraged violence or hatred but rather preached peace and forgiveness. I would say that is a morally superior message.



As for WW1/2 this was the norm among the European nations except the soviets (atheists), but religion was not the cause, it was used to bolster the troop’s morale. It always helps if you think god is on your side



Please provide a link


Thanks for mentioning the above it made me go and check your facts and they made for a very interesting read, true he did make many mistakes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Pius_XII#World_War_II

You seem to have only picked the bits you liked

As for Papal infallibility you don’t seem to understand the concept, here is a link which might help you
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07790a.htm



Hitler had many ideas when it came to religion but to blame his actions and those of the Nazi party on one church is a bit far fetched
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_views#Views_as_an_adult



People of all faith commit atrocities in the name of their faith, usually based on their own interpretations and not the actual core of the faith in question



I am quite happy on my horse and I did not attempt to belittle any one but rather to debate them. As for trying to knock me off my horse, bring it on

Um, you are not the man on the horse that I was talking too. Check the post and you will find that my response is to Smokey. Boy, you must think you are important if you think every post is directed at you. But it seems you've now also gotten a horse. Is it a very heigh one? Did I blame the Church for Hitler's actions? Please point to where I did so. All I highlighted is that the Church did not oppose and to some degree supported Nazism in Germany. Again so that it can be quite clear. I DID NOT SAY THAT CHRISTIANS STARTED WW2, but you can not deny that Christians played a role in it.

 

[Who Me]

Ronjay;5407749]Um, you are not the man on the horse that I was talking too. Check the post and you will find that my response is to Smokey. Boy, you must think you are important if you think every post is directed at you.

Okay my bad, use should have used the quote function so I knew that. At the moment I am the main one debating with you guys, so I made an assumption, a wrong one it seems.

But it seems you've now also gotten a horse. Is it a very high one

Yes, as for the height, it varies

Did I blame the Church for Hitler's actions? Please point to where I did so. All I highlighted is that the Church did not oppose and to some degree supported Nazism in Germany. Again so that it can be quite clear. I DID NOT SAY THAT CHRISTIANS STARTED WW2, but you can not deny that Christians played a role in it

Not directly, but you implied that their lack of protest added fuel to the fire

Yes I know, you stated quite clearly that it was fought between countries with Christian majorities

Christians fought on both sides as did Muslims although for the most part they were in the minority except for the conflicts in Africa and the middle east where there was a predominant Muslim presence

 

[porchrat]

I loved the part about soviets being atheists. Baseless generalisations FTW!

 

[Who Me]

I loved the part about soviets being atheists. Baseless generalisations FTW!

More a reflection on the attitude of the government of the time

The Soviet Union was the first state to have as an ideological objective the elimination of religion[1] and its replacement with atheism.[2][3] Toward that end, the communist regime confiscated church property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in the schools.[4]

State atheism in the Soviet Union was known as "gosateizm,[5] and was based on the ideology of Marxism-Leninism. As the founder of the Soviet state V. I. Lenin put it:

Religion is the opium of the people: this saying of Marx is the cornerstone of the entire ideology of Marxism about religion. All modern religions and churches, all and of every kind of religious organizations are always considered by Marxism as the organs of bourgeois reaction, used for the protection of the exploitation and the stupefaction of the working class.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_Soviet_Union

 

[Ronjay]

More a reflection on the attitude of the government of the time

Ever heard of Russian Orthodoxy?

 

[porchrat]

More a reflection on the attitude of the government of the time

Yes but that isn't what you said.

 

[Who Me]

Yes but that isn't what you said.

Actually I am right as my post said soviets which implies people who believed in the soviet system.

The foot soldiers may have had religious belief but would not have expressed them for fear of the NKVD who were present at all levels of the military and any one who stepped out of line was liable to end up in a work camp or punishment company(cannon fodder) .

If I had used the term Russians I would have been incorrect as that would have been referring to individual citizens

Ever heard of Russian Orthodoxy?

Yes of course they are a result of a split in the Catholic Church giving you the current Roman Catholic Church and the current Orthodox Churches.

Please see my reply to porchrat

 

[Ronjay]

Actually I am right as my post said soviets which implies people who believed in the soviet system.

The foot soldiers may have had religious belief but would not have expressed them for fear of the NKVD who were present at all levels of the military and any one who stepped out of line was liable to end up in a work camp or punishment company(cannon fodder) .

If I had used the term Russians I would have been incorrect as that would have been referring to individual citizens


Yes of course they are a result of a split in the Catholic Church giving you the current Roman Catholic Church and the current Orthodox Churches.

Please see my reply to porchrat

See, this is what you are doing as well by suggesting I am implying stuff in my posts. We can also say you are implying that all Russians are atheist. I never said anything about the Christians adding fire to WW2, but you say I'm implying it. Where?

Believe me, if I wanted to say that Christians are these evil people that are the starters of World Wars and like to be the cause of all the world's problems like you are saying about Islam, I'd just say it. But then I'd be an idiot considering that I am a Christian.

 

[porchrat]

Actually I am right as my post said soviets which implies people who believed in the soviet system.

I don't think it is wise to throw statements around saying that everyone who believes in the soviet system was automatically an atheist. You can believe in some aspects while discarding others and still be part of the political party and everything. Sweeping generalisations are almost never helpful.

For example you can be a card carrying member of the ANC and not necessarily agree with everything they stand for. That doesn't suddenly stop you being a member of the ANC.

 

[msmoorad]

its another Mossad false flag op- same as every "terrorist" attack that has taken place in the last 50 plus years.
just like 9/11, madrid train bombings, london bus bombings.
i dont know why you people who consider yourself to be intelligent and nobodys fool, are afraid to speak the truth?
there is no Al Qaeda- its just a bogeyman/scapegoat created to take the blame for the actions of the Zionazis- this gives them an excuse to invade muslim lands and kill innocent people & steal their natural resources & mineral wealth.
if you think this is "anti semitism" then i wont be surprised- this is the standard defence when anyone speaks the truth about zionist Israel and its actions.
maybe you are protecting your family members & friends who have joined mercenary companies like Blackwater and are earning good money by killing innocent muslims- i know quite a few white south africans are there.
what about SA Jews who serve in the Israeli terrorist army?

just like how you white people like to tell us muslims to speak out against the terrorist elements amongs us- to expose and condemn them- you say you know most of us are good people and are not part of their evil actions..

why dont you have the guts to tell the Jews that?

go complain to the moderators/administrators- do what you want.
the truth remains the truth.

 

[porchrat]

its another Mossad false flag op- same as every "terrorist" attack that has taken place in the last 50 plus years.
just like 9/11, madrid train bombings, london bus bombings.
i dont know why you people who consider yourself to be intelligent and nobodys fool, are afraid to speak the truth?
there is no Al Qaeda- its just a bogeyman/scapegoat created to take the blame for the actions of the Zionazis- this gives them an excuse to ivade muslim lands and kill innocent people & steal their natural resources & mineral wealth.
if you think this is "anti semitism" then i wont be surprised- this is the standard defence when anyone speaks the truth about zionist Israel and its actions.

just like how you white peole like to tell us muslims to speak out against the terrorist elements amongs us- to expose and condemn them- you say you know most of us are good people and are not part of their evil actions..

why dont you have the guts to tell the Jews that?

Not anti-semitism... just wacko.

/dons tinfoil fedora.

Did you forget your meds this morning?

 

[Ronjay]

its another Mossad false flag op- same as every "terrorist" attack that has taken place in the last 50 plus years.
just like 9/11, madrid train bombings, london bus bombings.
i dont know why you people who consider yourself to be intelligent and nobodys fool, are afraid to speak the truth?
there is no Al Qaeda- its just a bogeyman/scapegoat created to take the blame for the actions of the Zionazis- this gives them an excuse to ivade muslim lands and kill innocent people & steal their natural resources & mineral wealth.
if you think this is "anti semitism" then i wont be surprised- this is the standard defence when anyone speaks the truth about zionist Israel and its actions.

just like how you white peole like to tell us muslims to speak out against the terrorist elements amongs us- to expose and condemn them- you say you know most of us are good people and are not part of their evil actions..

why dont you have the guts to tell the Jews that?

No AlQueda? Ah, so the Terrorists are just immagination then? Not very clevr are you?