Muslims protect churches

theres enough proof- what do you want?
for CNN, BBC,SKY news etc- all the mainstream zionist media stations to speak the truth?
cos thats who you people rely on and consider to be "reputable"
if you are honest and sincere, you will find lots of proof - you people have internet access- Google it.
have you heard of false flag ops?
 
its another Mossad false flag op- same as every "terrorist" attack that has taken place in the last 50 plus years.
just like 9/11, madrid train bombings, london bus bombings.
i dont know why you people who consider yourself to be intelligent and nobodys fool, are afraid to speak the truth?
there is no Al Qaeda- its just a bogeyman/scapegoat created to take the blame for the actions of the Zionazis- this gives them an excuse to invade muslim lands and kill innocent people & steal their natural resources & mineral wealth.
if you think this is "anti semitism" then i wont be surprised- this is the standard defence when anyone speaks the truth about zionist Israel and its actions.
maybe you are protecting your family members & friends who have joined mercenary companies like Blackwater and are earning good money by killing innocent muslims- i know quite a few white south africans are there.
what about SA Jews who serve in the Israeli terrorist army?

just like how you white people like to tell us muslims to speak out against the terrorist elements amongs us- to expose and condemn them- you say you know most of us are good people and are not part of their evil actions..

why dont you have the guts to tell the Jews that?

go complain to the moderators/administrators- do what you want.
the truth remains the truth.

mwahaha, what a nut case.
when playing asphyxiation games with your sister dont leave the plastic bag on for too long it causes you to post the dribble above.
why would anyone complain to a mod about it, it shows just shows you for the whack job that you are.
 
theres enough proof- what do you want?
for CNN, BBC,SKY news etc- all the mainstream zionist media stations to speak the truth?
cos thats who you people rely on and consider to be "reputable"
if you are honest and sincere, you will find lots of proof - you people have internet access- Google it.
have you heard of false flag ops?

Ai, mainstream what?
 
theres enough proof- what do you want?
for CNN, BBC,SKY news etc- all the mainstream zionist media stations to speak the truth?
cos thats who you people rely on and consider to be "reputable"
if you are honest and sincere, you will find lots of proof - you people have internet access- Google it.
have you heard of false flag ops?

When I read your posts I imagine carnival music playing. It somehow seems appropriate.
 
Um, you are not the man on the horse that I was talking too. Check the post and you will find that my response is to Smokey. Boy, you must think you are important if you think every post is directed at you. But it seems you've now also gotten a horse. Is it a very heigh one? Did I blame the Church for Hitler's actions? Please point to where I did so. All I highlighted is that the Church did not oppose and to some degree supported Nazism in Germany. Again so that it can be quite clear. I DID NOT SAY THAT CHRISTIANS STARTED WW2, but you can not deny that Christians played a role in it.

Which CHURCH are you pointing at?
 
its another Mossad false flag op- same as every "terrorist" attack that has taken place in the last 50 plus years.
just like 9/11, madrid train bombings, london bus bombings.
i dont know why you people who consider yourself to be intelligent and nobodys fool, are afraid to speak the truth?
there is no Al Qaeda- its just a bogeyman/scapegoat created to take the blame for the actions of the Zionazis- this gives them an excuse to invade muslim lands and kill innocent people & steal their natural resources & mineral wealth.
if you think this is "anti semitism" then i wont be surprised- this is the standard defence when anyone speaks the truth about zionist Israel and its actions.
maybe you are protecting your family members & friends who have joined mercenary companies like Blackwater and are earning good money by killing innocent muslims- i know quite a few white south africans are there.
what about SA Jews who serve in the Israeli terrorist army?

just like how you white people like to tell us muslims to speak out against the terrorist elements amongs us- to expose and condemn them- you say you know most of us are good people and are not part of their evil actions..

why dont you have the guts to tell the Jews that?

go complain to the moderators/administrators- do what you want.
the truth remains the truth.

+1
Any idiot can plant a bomb somewhere and I bet 'Al queeda' will 'take' responsibility.
 
Which CHURCH are you pointing at?

All of them. Read the other posts. Who-Me is saying that I am trying to say the Christians started WW2. I'm not. However, no condemnation came from the Churches of Germany, Protestant or Cathelic, and that to a degree the Church (Protestant or Catholic) to some degree, supported Nazism. Read up on Pius Xii and his feelings for Jews. He once said in a letter that a gang of women who he said were of dubious appearence and obviously Jews like all the rest of them (meaning prostitutes). He also said that he would do everything in his "strength to to cultivating and strengthening the relations between the Holy See and Germany." A contract was signed between the Vatican an Nazi Germany. These are all documented facts. Protestant Germans were just as bad, believing in Luther's anti-Semetic ideology.


For the last time:

1. I am not saying that Christian Churches started WW2. Nor did I imply it. But is supporting it less of a crime?
2. I am saying that Christians should not take the high ground in stating lovely little things like this:

The above actions and lack of action only serve to show the superiority of Christianities beliefs, we don’t fly of the handle at the slightest provocation imagined or not, yet this is often the case among Muslims.

Clearly, Christian Churches have done some horrible things in the past and so are not innocent little angels like some would have us believe.

I'm a Christian, and I believe we should speak the truth about Christian history, not sugar coat it and then try to say that Christian Churches are made up of these super peacefull people that never cause wars or in the case of WW2 support them.

Is it not what you guys are saying, that all Muslims are bad because even though only a small persentage are terrorists, they all don't speak out against terrorism. Ergo they are all terrorists. Then the same rules aply for us Christians. All Christians are bad because even though only Nazi's started the War, none of the Christian faiths outright condemned the Nazi's. Ergo all Christians are Nazi's. See that's pretty stupid.
 
Last edited:
However, no condemnation came from the Churches of Germany, Protestant or Cathelic, and that to a degree the Church (Protestant or Catholic) to some degree, supported Nazism.

In all fairness, if they did, Hitler would have taken those out - and he did (those religious leaders who protested)
As for the Catholic church - It's a satanic church in my view..end of story
 
....
Is it not what you guys are saying, that all Muslims are bad because even though only a small persentage are terrorists, they all don't speak out against terrorism. Ergo they are all terrorists. Then the same rules aply for us Christians. All Christians are bad because even though only Nazi's started the War, none of the Christian faiths outright condemned the Nazi's. Ergo all Christians are Nazi's. See that's pretty stupid.

Wow I thought this thread was done and dead, Hope everyone had a good weekend I had a bit of and extended one only comming in to working today:).
anyhow WOW really good stuff there Ronjay, don't get me wrong I am not looking for ammunition against the Christians and stuff but you make a really good point.

I agree with you 100% there is no point in saying my group is better than yours cos there crazies out there just ruining things for everyone else, to put in mild way:o,

I think religious tolerance is still a far way to go but these are baby steps to get there hopefully we can get there in our time, I would hate to die with out trying my hardest to get there(religious tolerance). Sure We may disagree on aspects of religion thats not the point, I as Muslim respect you and see you as a human being first and foremost, our difference in opinion when comes to religious matters takes second preference to this, this my fellow forumites is what Islam has taught me.
 
Wow I thought this thread was done and dead, Hope everyone had a good weekend I had a bit of and extended one only comming in to working today:).
anyhow WOW really good stuff there Ronjay, don't get me wrong I am not looking for ammunition against the Christians and stuff but you make a really good point.

I agree with you 100% there is no point in saying my group is better than yours cos there crazies out there just ruining things for everyone else, to put in mild way:o,

I think religious tolerance is still a far way to go but these are baby steps to get there hopefully we can get there in our time, I would hate to die with out trying my hardest to get there(religious tolerance). Sure We may disagree on aspects of religion thats not the point, I as Muslim respect you and see you as a human being first and foremost, our difference in opinion when comes to religious matters takes second preference to this, this my fellow forumites is what Islam has taught me.

Excellent reply! :D
 
Where do you find this cr@p??! :eek:

Same place as this.

Role of religion in the Nazi state

Hitler was opposed to state atheism, which for example was part of the political system of the Soviet Union. He issued a statement saying that he wished to avoid factional disputes in Germany's churches.[62] Hitler feared the political power that the churches had, and did not want to openly antagonize that political base until he had securely gained control of the country. Once in power Hitler showed his contempt for non-Aryan religion and sought to eliminate it from areas under his rule.[63][64] Within Hitler's Nazi Party some atheists were quite vocal, especially Martin Bormann.[65] Hitler often used religious speech and symbolism in his propaganda to promote Nazism to those that he feared would be disposed to act against him.[66][67] He also used religion as a pretext in diplomacies. The Soviet Union feared that if they commenced a programme of persecution against religion in the western regions, Hitler would use that as a pretext for war.[68]

In 1985 the Austrian author Wilfried Daim published a photograph of an alleged document signed by Hitler in 1943, which proposed the:
"Immediate and unconditional abolition of all religions after the final victory ('Endsieg') not only for the territory of Greater Germany but also for all released, occupied and annexed countries ..., proclaiming at the same time Hitler as the new messiah. Out of political considerations the Muslim, Buddhist and Shintoist religion will be spared for the present. The 'Führer' has to be presented as an intermediate between a redeemer and a liberator, yet surely as one sent by God, who has to get godly honour. The existing churches, chapels, temples and cult places of the different religions have to be changed into 'Adolf-Hitler-consecration places'. The theological faculties of the universities have to be transformed into the new faith. Special emphasis has to be lain on the education of missionaries and wandering preachers, who have to proclaim the teaching in Greater Germany and in the rest of the world and have to form religious bodies, which can be used as centres for further extension. (With this the problems with the abolition of monogamy will disappear, because polygamy can be included into the new teaching as one of the statements of faith.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler's_religious_views#Views_as_an_adult

See how it works? Not yet? Here, 'nother spoonful.

Iranian identity versus religious identity

Since the establishment of Islamic Republic, principle-ists have initiated the policy of de-Iranianization of the Iran, by replacing the notion of Iranian Identity and Nationality with Moslem Identity, both inside and outside Iran. Ayatollah Khomeini has emphasized this goal in several of his speeches, for example, on Dec 1980 (as published in Kayhan):
"Those who say that we want nationality, they are standing against Islam....We have no use for the nationalists. Moslems are useful for us. Islam is against nationality...."[115]
"These issues that exist among people that we are Iranian and what we need to do for Iran are not correct; these issues are not correct. This issue, which is perhaps being discussed everywhere, regarding paying attention to nation and nationality is nonsense in Islam and is against Islam. One of the things that the designers of Imperialism and their agents have promoted is the idea of nation and nationality."[115]

Mehdi Bazargan, the first Prime minister of Islamic Republic, once said: "Imam [Khomeini] wants Iran for Islam and we want Islam for Iran." Due to the commitment to Pan-Islamism inherent in Iranian Islamic revolutionary ideology, the Islamic Republic's attitude toward Sunni Islam is positive.[116]

At the beginning of the Islamic Revolution, one of the most-notorious clerics in Iran, Sadeq Khalkhali known as the hanging judge,[117] who was renowned for his brutality and mass executions in post-revolutionary Iran, tried to destroy 2500-year-old Persepolis, and after that the mausoleum of Ferdowsi. He was stopped by the efforts of the locals.

Iranian government in several occasions constructed dams and rail roads in the vicinity of ancient archeological sites that date back to pre-Islamic era. In January 2007, the Minister of Energy, Parviz Fattah directly ordered the opening of the Sivand Dam. Referring to the critics, he said: "I will make a museum next to the dam with my own money!"[118] Sivand dam project has been one of the most condemned projects in post-revolution Iran due to its potential to destroy Iranian archaeological sites. Some Iranians are furious about the construction of the dam and argue that there is no objective in the world worthy to justify the construction of a dam, so close to Pasargadae.[119] Hossein Marashi, the Iranian Vice President for Cultural Heritage and Tourism said: "We can not sacrifice the dam for cultural and historical sites."[120] Sivand Dam became operational in 2007. Ahmadinejad's government, however, refused to buy the detectors needed for monitoring humidity of the Pasargadae.[121] Also "Karun-3 dam" was constructed during Rafsanjani's presidency which led to destruction of ancient archeological site in Izeh.[122][123]

Defaming Cyrus the Great, Islamist negationist Sadeq Khalkhali wrote an article entitled "Kourosh-e Doroughin" (Impostor Cyrus) shortly after the revolution. In 2001, Nasser Pourpirar wrote two books entitled "Twelve centuries of silence" and "A bridge to past", claiming that the Sassanid empire and Parthian Empires never existed, and are the fabrications of Jewish and American orientalists.[124] Abbas Salimi Namin attributed Persepolis to Russian civilization. Islamist negationists Abbas Salimi Namin and Purpirar were coworkers for the hardline "Kayhan Havaei" (a weekly review of the daily Keyhan in English) after the revolution. Namin, a computer engineer and former member of Haghani circle is a close ally of Ali Khamenei, the leader of the Islamic Republic. Ignored by Iranian scholars, such figures managed to enter and influence traditional clerical circles and the policy makers of the Islamic Republic.[125] Interestingly several of these Islamist negationists were formerly associated with Marxist groups before acting as agents of Islamic Republic.[125]

Ruling clerics sought to stamp out many traditions, like Nowruz, a celebration with some Zoroastrian links that stretches back thousands of years to the pre-Islamic era, to mark the arrival of spring. The celebration is considered by many here the most Iranian of holidays.[126][127]

Several proposals have been made by conservatists to replace or shorten Norouz celebrations but rejected because of public protests. Ayatollah Khazali, a member of the powerful Guardians Council and the Experts Assembly for Leadership, has proposed that the celebration of Ghadir (Shiites commemorate these festivities as the day prophet Mohammad is recorded to have named disciple Ali to be his successor) should replace the traditional Iranian celebration of Norouz.[128]

Ali Khamenei in many occasions attacked the Iranian fire festival Chahar Shanbeh Suri and also called for shortening Norouz, claiming that the holidays are seriously damaging Iranian economy. Following an order by Ali Khamenei the fire festival has been banned by the regime since it is of Zoroastrian origins and is not Islamic. However, due to internal opposition, the government had to step back.[127]

Arabic vs Persian

The most detailed and explicit statement about Arabic was made by Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani in 1981 in an important Sermon linking the fate of Persian language directly to that of Persian nationality: "both shall vanish as soon as Islamic unity is attained".[116]

The tradition of banning names dates to the beginning of the Islamic Revolution in the early 1980s, when Iran's conservative leaders sought to purge the country of both Western culture and its own Persian, pre-Islamic past. Fundamentalists consider it unfortunate that Iranians used to be Zoroastrians, or that the ancient Persian empire achieved its greatest triumphs before Islam's arrival. To that end, they compiled a long list of forbidden names that included Zoroastrians gods and goddesses, commanders of ancient Persian armies, and other such tainted, best-forgotten figures. Indeed, Arabic names, except for a handful of Sunni villains, were fine. Persian ones, despite originating from the language actually spoken in Iran, had to be checked against the official list. Along the way, other politically inconvenient realities were fought on the baby name terrain. Wishing to quell an uprising by ethnically Kurdish Iranians in the north, the government banned Kurdish names.[129] Street names had changed from old Persian names to Arabic and Muslim names .This whole shift of the Iranian identity toward a more Islamic one created a kind of crisis.[130]

Iranian society on the other hand, identify itself as Iranian. In Iran-Iraq war for example, all Iranians irrespective of their religions and ethnic groups defended the country. Abdolkarim Soroush, foremost Iranian religious intellectual, once suggested to adapt the religion to Iranian culture by organizing Ashura and other Islamic festivals according to Iranian calendar instead of Islamic calendar to avoid conflicts between Iranian identity and religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_political_Islam_in_Iran
 
Ronjay did you read my previous post where I stated the following?

Yes I know, you stated quite clearly that it was fought between countries with Christian majorities

Did you read the wiki link I posted; it gave a detailed look at the period and Pius's actions.

As for Luther well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_and_antisemitism

The above actions and lack of action only serve to show the superiority of Christianities beliefs, we don’t fly of the handle at the slightest provocation imagined or not, yet this is often the case among Muslims.

Lets see
- Mohhamad Cartoons resulted in attacks on Chrisatains around the world
- Movie submission - director killed; Submission 2 - threats of violance
- South Park - Threats made against creators
- Threat to burn Koran resulted in violent protests around the world
- Pope quotes a historical document in a lecture and violence erupts
- Satanic Verses controversy muslims ordered to kill Salman Rushdie's
- Abdul Rahman - converts to Christianity a personal decisions most Muslims in afghan want him killed
- Geert Wilder’s film results in death threats and threats of violence

Clearly, Christian Churches have done some horrible things in the past and so are not innocent little angels like some would have us believe.

The Christian church has done some horrible things in the past which contradicted the core message of Christianity

I'm a Christian, and I believe we should speak the truth about Christian history, not sugar coat it and then try to say that Christian Churches are made up of these super peacefull people that never cause wars or in the case of WW2 support them.

People will be people whether they are Buddhist Christian Muslim Hindu or scientologist etc they all have the capacity to claim that their actions are sanctioned by their faith while nothing could be further from the truth

Is it not what you guys are saying, that all Muslims are bad because even though only a small percentage are terrorists, they all don't speak out against terrorism. Ergo they are all terrorists. Then the same rules aply for us Christians. All Christians are bad because even though only Nazi's started the War, none of the Christian faiths outright condemned the Nazi's. Ergo all Christians are Nazi's. See that's pretty stupid.

What we are saying is that the majority must take a stand against those who would use Islam to commit violence, what is so wrong about that?
 
Top
Sign up to the MyBroadband newsletter
X