MyBB Motorcycle Owners Thread

[SauRoNZA]

Good topic here. I usually use the front brakes on my bike, but since I only have a single disk in front, there isn't much stopping power for emergency cases. If I need more power, then add in back brake. One must also remember that the more weight is being put on the front with the brakes, the less traction you have in the rear, so you can't stand in the peddle while squeezing hard. A few times I had the back end step out while on heavy braking. Usually I only realise it once I lift off the peddle and the bike jerks back in line.

Single disc should really be irrelevant. It was specced for the weight of the bike and should be adequate.

Most people have no idea how hard their bike’s can actually brake and you can do pretty much all of it with the front.

The rear brake is there for control, not stopping power. For the very reason you mentioned that weight transfers to the front it is pretty useless.

Should at best be 80/20 front to rear. Maybe 70/30 in the wet.

Are you using the front brake like an on/off switch? Learn to do the “squeeze” best applies with two fingers. Three maybe if you feel braking is really underpowered.

Start approaching a daily stop street at a preset speed and set markers for yourself and move them closer and closer so you have to increase your braking power and learn how well they actually work.

It’s near impossible to lock the front if applying the squeeze technique.

Most of the time people go down for. 1. Not braking hard enough. 2. Using the rear brake and sliding out.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Rear brake adds stability. Every rider is different but I almost always use the rear brake to some extent (depending on speed). If you are getting to an intersection and the rear brake is applied already it makes an emergency/hard brake with the fronts much easier. Personally, I'm not a fan of engine braking - too easy to have too much power jerk the rear of the bike.



This, and I learned that the painful hard way. A fistful of front brake is enough to send you over the handlebars :erm:

And regarding that lock up - you haven't lived until you've felt your front tyre sliding.

Sorry but every single paragraph says that you are doing it completely wrong. Has nothing to do with rider preference.

You are engine braking wrong. You should be rev matching by blipping the throttle. No jerkiness and no surprise power then. You should KNOW exactly how it behaves.

As for rear braking it does add stability/Control. But purely in combination with the front. You should be using it first and if using the front properly the rest simply doesn’t apply.

A fistful of front brake is again doing it completely wrong. It’s not an on/off switch. You need to learn to squeeze and it should become so normal that you do it in emergencies which makes it impossible to go over the bars.

As for the front tyre sliding. See above.

Noob post is obviously noob. Go do some training.

It’s **** posting like this that makes people believe bikes are exceptionally dangerous and pushes them away.

 

[memphis32]

Single disc should really be irrelevant. It was specced for the weight of the bike and should be adequate.

Most people have no idea how hard their bike’s can actually brake and you can do pretty much all of it with the front.

The rear brake is there for control, not stopping power. For the very reason you mentioned that weight transfers to the front it is pretty useless.

Should at best be 80/20 front to rear. Maybe 70/30 in the wet.

Are you using the front brake like an on/off switch? Learn to do the “squeeze” best applies with two fingers. Three maybe if you feel braking is really underpowered.

Start approaching a daily stop street at a preset speed and set markers for yourself and move them closer and closer so you have to increase your braking power and learn how well they actually work.

It’s near impossible to lock the front if applying the squeeze technique.

Most of the time people go down for. 1. Not braking hard enough. 2. Using the rear brake and sliding out.

You actually took the words right out of my mouth. I was about to ask about 2 finger braking vs 4 finger braking, after watching some videos yesterday on the topic.

So I tried the 4 finger route this morning(I'm usually a 2 finger rider), and while I could feel more stopping power on the front, the bike would dive and bounce around much more as its like an on/off switch as you mentioned. Then I went back to my usual 2 fingers, and immediately the bike was a lot smoother, I had finer control over the brake lever and didn't dive or bounce around. In my usual ride, if I needed heavy braking, I'd only realise the bike was braking hard if I suddenly released and the nose would jump up from its compressed state, or the back end would step out, and that's with 2 fingers....

Did some reading before work, and many folks say there's more pros than cons of doing the 2 finger braking. But what do you more experienced riders say?

 

[Hamster]

Sorry but every single paragraph says that you are doing it completely wrong. Has nothing to do with rider preference.

You are engine braking wrong. You should be rev matching by blipping the throttle. No jerkiness and no surprise power then. You should KNOW exactly how it behaves.

I said I didn't prefer it, not that it is wrong or ill advised to do so.

As for rear braking it does add stability/Control. But purely in combination with the front. You should be using it first and if using the front properly the rest simply doesn’t apply.

Yes, and? Did I say I use rears alone?

EDIT: I can see how it came across that way, it is not what I meant. What I meant to say is that a guy only braking with fronts have a higher chance of an off than a guy using rear brakes as well when he suddenly has to come to a dead stop. Yes, those of you who take your bikes out on tracks can say "you should use the front brakes correctly", but in a panic situation it's not always the case and **** happens.

A fistful of front brake is again doing it completely wrong. It’s not an on/off switch. You need to learn to squeeze and it should become so normal that you do it in emergencies which makes it impossible to go over the bars.

Well obvously I was doing it wrong, sugartits. Hence "I learned that the hard way".

As for the front tyre sliding. See above.

Roadworks spill sand and dust onto a road where there usually isn't any. It's easy to start sliding if you hit front brakes on it. It's happened, scared the crap out of me and I haven't don it again.

Noob post is obviously noob. Go do some training.

It’s **** posting like this that makes people believe bikes are exceptionally dangerous and pushes them away.

Oh I'm sorry I distressed you up there on your throne of motorcycle riding authority. Come on man, you have no idea where and when I went for training before or how long ago that was. And people should be scared of motorcycles and know the risks before getting on them. In the metros they are exceptionally dangerous.

 

[SauRoNZA]

You actually took the words right out of my mouth. I was about to ask about 2 finger braking vs 4 finger braking, after watching some videos yesterday on the topic.

So I tried the 4 finger route this morning(I'm usually a 2 finger rider), and while I could feel more stopping power on the front, the bike would dive and bounce around much more as its like an on/off switch as you mentioned. Then I went back to my usual 2 fingers, and immediately the bike was a lot smoother, I had finer control over the brake lever and didn't dive or bounce around. In my usual ride, if I needed heavy braking, I'd only realise the bike was braking hard if I suddenly released and the nose would jump up from its compressed state, or the back end would step out, and that's with 2 fingers....

Did some reading before work, and many folks say there's more pros than cons of doing the 2 finger braking. But what do you more experienced riders say?

I think ultimately the baseline logic of 2-fingers is that you’ll build the habit of always squeezing.

Much more inclined to smash the brake like an on/off switch if you had 4-fingers over it and automatically would put more power down.

Do you have any suspension adjustment at all on your bike? It sounds like it might be setup a bit too soft.

Most of the squeeze action is all about compressing the forks so that all the weight sits on the front tyre.

Once that has happened you have all the grip in the world and can just keep at it.

On the flip side if you smash the brakes in one motion there is no weight transfer and no compression at all meaning there is no grip and the tyre slides.

It’s partly why I’ve still never managed to lock front brakes on an ABS bike even when purposely using it like a muppet because I simply can’t put self preservation aside to operate it like that.

In theory with ABS you can just hamfist it all you want and it will just stop because it manages the locking for you. However a manually operate brake will still have better stopping distance than ABS in almost all cases with a decent rider as no traction is ever lost.

ABS will save the vast majority of Joe Average riders though in most situations and that’s why it’s there and a good thing overall.

I actually know someone who activated ABS almost every time he stops and thinks it’s perfectly fine to do so as the tech is there. I rue the day he jumps on a non-ABS bike and gets a massive surprise.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I said I didn't prefer it, not that it is wrong or ill advised to do so.

It’s the reason you stated you don’t prefer it that points to you doing it wrong.

Yes, and? Did I say I use rears alone?

EDIT: I can see how it came across that way, it is not what I meant. What I meant to say is that a guy only braking with fronts have a higher chance of an off than a guy using rear brakes as well when he suddenly has to come to a dead stop. Yes, those of you who take your bikes out on tracks can say "you should use the front brakes correctly", but in a panic situation it's not always the case and **** happens.

You said to use them first. Which is wrong as it doesn’t balance the bike onto the front correctly. It’s also a bad habit to teach someone who doesn’t know better yet. Especially in panic.

I’m also an always rear brakes as well kind of guy. Even on the track. But the fact is the average and noob rider would actually be safer to stay far away from them until they are fully capable of using front brakes alone.

Especially in panic where they are guaranteed to crash.

A lack of front brake is what has okes moering into stuff. If they didn’t slide out from the rear already.

When I say these things I’m thinking only about the panic situation as that’s all that really matters. If you have the wrong habits in place you will get it wrong in a panic.

I say this because I’ve done it myself.

The track is really irrelevant. All the same things should apply everywhere.

Roadworks spill sand and dust onto a road where there usually isn't any. It's easy to start sliding if you hit front brakes on it. It's happened, scared the crap out of me and I haven't don it again.

Even with sand and dust if applies correctly you should have no sliding or at least nothing uncontrollable.

It all comes back to the on/off switch again unsettling the weight of the bike.

Oh I'm sorry I distressed you up there on your throne of motorcycle riding authority. Come on man, you have no idea where and when I went for training before or how long ago that was. And people should be scared of motorcycles and know the risks before getting on them. In the metros they are exceptionally dangerous.

I’m certainly not perfect, but I have year of experience across many many many bikes and a lot of training in between.

But you should really be training every day which is why I suggested a familiar stop Street on the way home.

I certainly don’t know your entire history, which is why I took this single post in and of itself and pulled it apart because the way it was stated is just dangerous to a new rider.

Didn’t mean to offend you in any way. I simply assumed that we have enough of an understanding that I could “tell it like it is” but apparently I was wrong there so I apologise if you think I was taking a stab at your personally.

I was attaching the content. Not the person.

****

I should add having been corrected in similar ways many times over myself when I started out.

 

[Sinbad]

Only time I use my back brake is told hold the bike still at a traffic light. And if I'm braking harder than usual I might touch it a bit.

ABS FTW.

 

[spiderz]

when front braking ... squeese the front brake to start compressing the front suspension before braking hard on the front ... help a bit ... that ot my front shocks are shot ...

 

[Hamster]

I simply assumed that we have enough of an understanding that I could “tell it like it is” but apparently I was wrong there so I apologise if you think I was taking a stab at your personally.

I was attaching the content. Not the person.

We do have an understanding and "telling it like it is" is better than pussyfooting around an issue

 

[martin]

Had a chance to ride a Honda Falcon NX4 this weekend on a small holding north of Pretoria. It's a grey import that a friend bought off someone else. Huge amount of fun to play around with in the sand and on the dirt roads in the area. He's uses it as a commuter and reckons it's equally at home in the traffic.

More here: http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/Honda/honda_nx4 02.htm

 

[Archer]

Airoh S5 or Caberg X-Trace?
And for those of you that have had both a full face and a dual sport, would you say it is normal to have slightly less pressure on your jaw from the helmet with a dual sport?

 

[Trompie67]

A couple of points worth noting over and above the information dispensed above.

Riding a cruiser is nothing like riding any other bike. Cruisers have a different weight distribution. Much more braking is done by the rear wheel on a cruiser than on any other bike. Worth remembering if you ride a cruiser, as the advice regarding front braking given in the posts before does not apply.

2 finger braking works great, until your other 2 fingers get squashed between the grip & the lever & you run out of braking force. Learning how to 4 finger break effectively is better.

Learning to use the rear brake is a worthwhile skill. I have used it to tighten my line through corners (it will also reduce your speed although you hold the throttle steady) when some idiot is on the wrong side of the road coming towards you through a blind bend.

As I've stated, as well as others. Training & practice. Practice & practice some more. Every day there are opportunities on your ride to practice.

 

[KingMikel]

Airoh S5 or Caberg X-Trace?
And for those of you that have had both a full face and a dual sport, would you say it is normal to have slightly less pressure on your jaw from the helmet with a dual sport?

I'd go with a Caberg, purely because it's not as common a helmet. If it fits you and has decent ratings on Sharp, go for the Caberg!

 

[pinball wizard]

A couple of points worth noting over and above the information dispensed above.

Riding a cruiser is nothing like riding any other bike. Cruisers have a different weight distribution. Much more braking is done by the rear wheel on a cruiser than on any other bike. Worth remembering if you ride a cruiser, as the advice regarding front braking given in the posts before does not apply.

2 finger braking works great, until your other 2 fingers get squashed between the grip & the lever & you run out of braking force. Learning how to 4 finger break effectively is better.

Learning to use the rear brake is a worthwhile skill. I have used it to tighten my line through corners (it will also reduce your speed although you hold the throttle steady) when some idiot is on the wrong side of the road coming towards you through a blind bend.

As I've stated, as well as others. Training & practice. Practice & practice some more. Every day there are opportunities on your ride to practice.

2 finger is simple. Cut levers.

 

[Trompie67]

2 finger is simple. Cut levers.

Can't do that when doing track days - simply cutting them - your fingers could slip off as the balletjie on the end is no longer there.

You can fit shorty levers though.

 

[SauRoNZA]

Riding a cruiser is nothing like riding any other bike. Cruisers have a different weight distribution. Much more braking is done by the rear wheel on a cruiser than on any other bike. Worth remembering if you ride a cruiser, as the advice regarding front braking given in the posts before does not apply.

I often hear this advice but it simply
isn’t true.

The physics are the same. Cruisers still have a massive front brake and a little rear one for this very reason.

Cruisers are simply heavier and therefore don’t brake as well. Using less front and more rear will make that even worse. Their weight distribution and transfer remains the same.

But I’m sure you’ll argue this to death, science be damned.

Having actually a cruiser around a track as ridden quite a few in the real world I can safely say the rear brake won’t get you very far. No actually it will get you much farther than you wanted to be because it doesn’t stop.

Does their rear brake generally work better than say a sport bike does? Sure because they are heavy as hell. Does that mean the front brake shouldn’t be used as the primary? Certainly not.

2 finger braking works great, until your other 2 fingers get squashed between the grip & the lever & you run out of braking force. Learning how to 4 finger break effectively is better.

Then your brakes are setup wrong or not maintained properly.

Adjust your levers accordingly.

You can certainly learn to maintain the same level of control with four fingers.

It’s just way more likely you’ll grab a fist full while in a panic, so not really worth the risk.

Learning to use the rear brake is a worthwhile skill. I have used it to tighten my line through corners (it will also reduce your speed although you hold the throttle steady) when some idiot is on the wrong side of the road coming towards you through a blind bend.

Exactly why I said it’s there for control and not for stopping.

It’s efficacy in reducing anything over parking lot speed is near pointless.

 

[Hamster]

2 finger braking works great, until your other 2 fingers get squashed between the grip & the lever & you run out of braking force.

I've never had this happen. Will have to check if it is actually physically possible on my bike.

 

[TheFriendlyGhost]

The physics are the same. Cruisers still have a massive front brake and a little rear one for this very reason.

Cruisers are simply heavier and therefore don’t brake as well. Using less front and more rear will make that even worse. Their weight distribution and transfer remains the same.

This.
I ride a Harley as a daily commuter. Trust me (and SauRoNZA), you try and use the rear brake as a primary and the cruiser back wheel will lock and you are going to slide.

 

[skeptic_SA]

Sorry, missed this yesterday.

You are most welcome, I hope they give you as good service as we received.

@trompie
Update: Dropped my KTM off with them on Friday at 12H30. The wiring was a mess. Rats nest of NOTE. Previous owner had spliced so many of the wires and piggy backed off of so many wires. There was about 5 or 6 wires weren't terminated properly - didn't know what they were for or where they went.

Get a call at 11 today to say she's ready. Half expected they had the wrong bike in mind since I had only dropped it off on Friday. So I swung passed there an hour ago to make sure they had attended to everything... and there she was. 100% ready to go. Wiring is neat as a pin. Everything I asked for was attended to (and more - they noticed the wires on the engine temp probe were frayed and about to break loose - they sorted this out too).

Thanks again for the referral.

 

[SauRoNZA]

I've never had this happen. Will have to check if it is actually physically possible on my bike.

Going by this second post I’m going to guess he applies track stuff to the road where it really isn’t possible unless something is wrong with your bike.

On the track as the brakes overheat it can happen.

But the real answer to that is to simply accept a road bike is not a track bike and pit in and let it cool, not change your entire riding happen for the 5% of the time you are at the track.

Or build a proper made for purpose track bike.