[ Onsite ] - Fullstack Developer

P

Promilezi

New Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2024
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5
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About the job
Company Description
At Promilezi, we are creating a suite of comprehensive, intuitive management tools
designed to address the diverse needs of modern businesses. Our solutions,
including Asset Management, Risk Management, Performance Management, and
Compliance Management, are being crafted to empower businesses to operate more
efficiently and effectively. As we build, we are committed to leveraging the latest
technologies and methodologies to ensure our products are not just market-ready
but are leading-edge and user-friendly.

Who we are looking for:
We seek a visionary Full Stack Developer to lay the foundational architecture of our
company's technology stack. This role is perfect for a strategic thinker who is
passionate about building robust systems from the ground up and enjoys the
autonomy of making significant technical decisions. Your expertise will be the
cornerstone of our product development, ensuring scalability, performance, and
innovation.

Duties & Responsibilities
  • Architect, develop, and maintain full-stack solutions, driving the creation of our product infrastructure.
  • Evaluate, select, and implement the optimal tech stack that aligns with our product vision and market needs.
  • Lead the development and integration of server-side logic with front-end elements, crafted by our UI/UX team.
  • Construct and oversee databases, server-side applications, and platforms.
  • Ensure code integrity, organization, and automatization.
  • Define coding standards and development best practices.
  • Align technology choices with business strategy and goals.
  • Mentor junior developers and promote a culture of learning and innovation.

Desired Experience:
  • 3+ years as a backend developer
  • 2+ years as a frontend developer
  • Extensive experience with back-end programming languages (e.g., Python, PHP, .NET, JavaScript/Node.js).
  • Proven track record of developing and maintaining scalable full-stack applications.
  • In-depth knowledge of front-end frameworks like React or Angular, and state management libraries.
  • Experience with database design, management, and optimization for SQL and NoSQL databases.
  • Proficiency with RESTful APIs and web service integrations.
  • Experience with cloud services (AWS, Azure, GCP) and CI/CD pipelines.
  • Strong understanding of containerization and orchestration technologies.

Advantageous:
  • Previous role in setting up or significantly contributing to a company's tech architecture.
  • Familiarity with microservices architecture.
  • Knowledge of DevOps principles and tools.
  • Soft skills/ Non-technical Skills
  • Strategic and analytical thinking.
  • Leadership skills and the ability to make decisive technical decisions.
  • Excellent time management and project management skills.
  • Strong communication and teamwork abilities•
Package & Remuneration
Salary: R25,000.00 – R30,000.00 per month depending on experience
Location: Gauteng, South Africa
Application Deadline: 29 February 2024
Email: [email protected]
 
Promilezi said:
@NightShift
@Ejeckt
@PPLdude

Thanks for reaction. Please assist with how we need to improve the job spec to attract better emojis. :D and potential candidates.
Click to expand...
If I had to guess, it would be that you are expecting a relatively senior full stack developer for less than half of the going rate, and then expecting full on-stie, which is pretty taboo these days. But just a guess.

mybroadband.co.za

These are the highest-paid IT jobs in South Africa

The Robert Walters Salary Survey report gives salary ranges for 14 of the highest-paying IT roles in South Africa, 11 of which could see an annual pay package of at least R1 million in 2024.
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mybroadband.co.za

South Africa’s real tech salaries in 2024

Research from Analytico shows that experienced South African IT professionals are being paid well.
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I know precisely the type of person you are looking for and they will cost you over R100k a month. You need to rethink your business model , your funding and what you plan to do. This ad is delusional.

If you think its not delusional , try and hire someone based on the ad and your current thinking and see how it goes and if you end up producing something you can sell. (Spolier - you won't)
 
werfie said:
If I had to guess, it would be that you are expecting a relatively senior full stack developer for less than half of the going rate, and then expecting full on-stie, which is pretty taboo these days. But just a guess.

mybroadband.co.za

These are the highest-paid IT jobs in South Africa

The Robert Walters Salary Survey report gives salary ranges for 14 of the highest-paying IT roles in South Africa, 11 of which could see an annual pay package of at least R1 million in 2024.
mybroadband.co.za mybroadband.co.za

mybroadband.co.za

South Africa’s real tech salaries in 2024

Research from Analytico shows that experienced South African IT professionals are being paid well.
mybroadband.co.za mybroadband.co.za
Click to expand...
Thank you for the additional sources. We based our research on the median on payscale and offerzen based on the number of years.

Offerzen

Payscale


retromodcoza said:
I know precisely the type of person you are looking for and they will cost you over R100k a month. You need to rethink your business model , your funding and what you plan to do. This ad is delusional.

If you think its not delusional , try and hire someone based on the ad and your current thinking and see how it goes and if you end up producing something you can sell. (Spolier - you won't)
Click to expand...
We have been camping on the zatech Slack channel to gauge salary ranges. Although we might be 5k - 10k less than the average clearly we are not attracting the right candidate.

What would be a more realistic salary range for the job spec we have posted?

I would also like insight on the other job posting, this is the only one with comments.

Front End
UI Designer
 
Problems with the ad are :

1. Someone with the range of experience and depth of understanding you are looking for does not come with 2-3 years experience. They come with 10-15 years experience. As stated by others, you are expecting a junior candidate to do the work of an senior architect. Smarter and better resourced companies have tried this tactic and failed. Its a very popular tactic initially because it appears cheaper. I have never seen it work.

2. The type of folk you need are already employed , and are already earning 100k per month minimum. That is a realistic salary range for what you are asking for , and yes , you are 4x off where you need to be. Again , if you think this is wrong and you are doing the right research , go right ahead and employ someone based on your current thinking and see what happens.

3. This is not what you want to hear - because most probably you can't afford the candidate you need or it throws your business model completely into the red if you have to pay for what you need. You are actually so far-gone with this ad that I would consider halting whatever project you need this developer for. This is a business problem , not a developer problem. You have not properly understood the costs of what you are trying to do , and you are trying to make the money available to you fit the project instead of the other way around.
 
You're looking for a rockstar dev there. At 3 year's experience, the average developer will not have:
  • Extensive experience with back-end programming languages (e.g., Python, PHP, .NET, JavaScript/Node.js).
  • Proven track record of developing and maintaining scalable full-stack applications.
  • In-depth knowledge of front-end frameworks like React or Angular, and state management libraries.
  • Experience with database design, management, and optimization for SQL and NoSQL databases.
  • Proficiency with RESTful APIs and web service integrations.
  • Experience with cloud services (AWS, Azure, GCP) and CI/CD pipelines.
  • Strong understanding of containerization and orchestration technologies.

At 3 years, the average developer will have:

  • Be average or pretty good with back-end programming languages (e.g., Python, PHP, .NET, JavaScript/Node.js).
  • Has been involved in developing and maintaining scalable full-stack applications.
  • Has worked on and probably added some new tables, forms, buttons & widgets for front-end frameworks like React or Angular, and state management libraries.
  • Knows how to write SELECT and UPDATE queries. Has added a few new tables via ORM and made some migrations.
  • Proficiency with RESTful APIs and web service integrations.
  • Has seen cloud services, perhaps even run some CLI commands to work with existing services (AWS, Azure, GCP) and CI/CD pipelines.
  • Knows about and has seen and orchestration technologies. Able to use docker effectively for local development.

You're looking for a developer who can do it all, and be trusted to do it well. Forgetting the 3 years' experience, as someone above pointed out, R100,000p/m seems about normal for what you expect. At 3 years' experience, only 1-5% of developers will be at that calibre, and I know some devs like that around R100k pm. Or you're looking for someone with 6-7 years, which is also at that range.

TLDR: You're offering below average rate and wanting a significantly above average developer.
 
Last edited:
Promilezi said:
Thank you for the additional sources. We based our research on the median on payscale and offerzen based on the number of years.

Offerzen

Payscale



We have been camping on the zatech Slack channel to gauge salary ranges. Although we might be 5k - 10k less than the average clearly we are not attracting the right candidate.

What would be a more realistic salary range for the job spec we have posted?

I would also like insight on the other job posting, this is the only one with comments.

Front End
UI Designer
Click to expand...
wrt OfferZen, although they are a dev recruitment company the developers who are getting hired on there are usually sub-par (so the salaries would be sub-par too). These are not my words but those of an exec for a SaaS company in CPT who has used the platform before.

Also you need to narrow down the tech stack

Should the candidate know all 3 major cloud platforms?

Should the candidate know Python, PHP, .NET and JavaScript/Node.js?

If the answer is yes to the above then even at R100k/month you are looking for a unicorn
 
got_shafted said:
wrt OfferZen, although they are a dev recruitment company the developers who are getting hired on there are usually sub-par (so the salaries would be sub-par too). These are not my words but those of an exec for a SaaS company in CPT who has used the platform before.

Also you need to narrow down the tech stack

Should the candidate know all 3 major cloud platforms?

Should the candidate know Python, PHP, .NET and JavaScript/Node.js?

If the answer is yes to the above then even at R100k/month you are looking for a unicorn
Click to expand...
Agreed

@Promelizi if you are looking for a junior at that salary range, name the two major technologies that you are looking for, and settle for that (hoping that the rest could be upskilled into).
 
retromodcoza said:
Problems with the ad are :

1. Someone with the range of experience and depth of understanding you are looking for does not come with 2-3 years experience. They come with 10-15 years experience. As stated by others, you are expecting a junior candidate to do the work of an senior architect. Smarter and better resourced companies have tried this tactic and failed. Its a very popular tactic initially because it appears cheaper. I have never seen it work.

2. The type of folk you need are already employed , and are already earning 100k per month minimum. That is a realistic salary range for what you are asking for , and yes , you are 4x off where you need to be. Again , if you think this is wrong and you are doing the right research , go right ahead and employ someone based on your current thinking and see what happens.

3. This is not what you want to hear - because most probably you can't afford the candidate you need or it throws your business model completely into the red if you have to pay for what you need. You are actually so far-gone with this ad that I would consider halting whatever project you need this developer for. This is a business problem , not a developer problem. You have not properly understood the costs of what you are trying to do , and you are trying to make the money available to you fit the project instead of the other way around.
Click to expand...


Ejeckt said:
You're looking for a rockstar dev there. At 3 year's experience, the average developer will not have:
  • Extensive experience with back-end programming languages (e.g., Python, PHP, .NET, JavaScript/Node.js).
  • Proven track record of developing and maintaining scalable full-stack applications.
  • In-depth knowledge of front-end frameworks like React or Angular, and state management libraries.
  • Experience with database design, management, and optimization for SQL and NoSQL databases.
  • Proficiency with RESTful APIs and web service integrations.
  • Experience with cloud services (AWS, Azure, GCP) and CI/CD pipelines.
  • Strong understanding of containerization and orchestration technologies.

At 3 years, the average developer will have:

  • Be average or pretty good with back-end programming languages (e.g., Python, PHP, .NET, JavaScript/Node.js).
  • Has been involved in developing and maintaining scalable full-stack applications.
  • Has worked on and probably added some new tables, forms, buttons & widgets for front-end frameworks like React or Angular, and state management libraries.
  • Knows how to write SELECT and UPDATE queries. Has added a few new tables via ORM and made some migrations.
  • Proficiency with RESTful APIs and web service integrations.
  • Has seen cloud services, perhaps even run some CLI commands to work with existing services (AWS, Azure, GCP) and CI/CD pipelines.
  • Knows about and has seen and orchestration technologies. Able to use docker effectively for local development.

You're looking for a developer who can do it all, and be trusted to do it well. Forgetting the 3 years' experience, as someone above pointed out, R100,000p/m seems about normal for what you expect. At 3 years' experience, only 1-5% of developers will be at that calibre, and I know some devs like that around R100k pm. Or you're looking for someone with 6-7 years, which is also at that range.

TLDR: You're offering below average rate and wanting a significantly above average developer.
Click to expand...

:X3:....:eek:.....:unsure: .....:(....:crying:
 
Thanks for being so open and discussing the role its really appreciated. You haven't mentioned the size of the project which is quite important. How big is the project?

Some of the others have already gone into a lot of detail but it comes down to this.

You will get a full stack developer for your offering price but your expectations of their ability is not correct.

Someone with that level experience still works under lead developers, architects and other senior resources. They may have worked on fullstack projects but they still have a long way to go in terms of even understanding what they don't know. So you might get someone all gung ho ready to rock but you will likely be disappointed with the result.
 
I appreciate you (unlike other known recruiters here) actually posting the salary range. That never happens here.

BUT, you’re at at least 4 times below what someone with that expertise should be getting.
 
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