Scottish Referendum on Independence

[Hamish McPanji]

How keen do you think NATO would be to add to that number? Irrelevant anyway, the Scots have indicated they would demand the removal of the Nukes if the Yes vote succeeds.

If an Independent Scotland want NATO membership, guaranteed it will be fast tracked.

 

[Cray]

If an Independent Scotland want NATO membership, guaranteed it will be fast tracked.

True.

 

[OrbitalDawn]

I agree, I think I read the NATO thing in an opinion piece so probably not entirely relevant, Scotland would probably be the most sober Nuclear power of the bunch. However the reality of prevailing opinion is that they will most likely be moved, especially as the Scots have said they will demand that the nukes are removed from Scottish soil.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10701826/Scottish-yes-vote-will-force-Britain-to-abandon-nuclear-weapons.html

Well, their demand is a bit flaccid, actually. Did they think the UK would just let them keep the base and the nukes if they didn't demand it to be removed?

 

[Hamish McPanji]

Well, their demand is a bit flaccid, actually. Did they think the UK would just let them keep the base and the nukes if they didn't demand it to be removed?

Yes. Look at Russia and Ukraine

That is one of the campaign issues actually, no nuclear weapons on our soil

 

[Cray]

Well, their demand is a bit flaccid, actually. Did they think the UK would just let them keep the base and the nukes if they didn't demand it to be removed?

Given Scottish contribution to UK GDP, maybe they would be allowed to keep one submarine.

 

[Cray]

Yes. Look at Russia and Ukraine

Given the current climate I wonder if Ukraine are regretting that...

 

[Hamish McPanji]

Given the current climate I wonder if Ukraine are regretting that...

I don't actually Russia have them a real choice at the time, more a statement than a request

 

[zippy]

The most interesting thing about a yes vote will be what happens to the Nuclear weapons. I foresee a mad scramble, can't have a non NATO member with Nukes.

Scotland won't have control over them. The UK has time to move them. Alternative sites have been identified.

 

[Nom Chompsky]

Revealed: Alex Salmond personally pressurised St Andrews University head over independence concerns

The Scottish First Minister attempted to force the principal of St Andrews University to criticise the Government and tone down warnings she made about the adverse impact of Scottish independence.

Alex Salmond telephoned Prof Louise Richardson demanding she clarify remarks she made about the consequences of leaving the UK in a conversation described as “loud and heated”.

Emails obtained by The Telegraph also show that Mr Salmond’s office attempted to have Prof Richardson release a statement praising the Scottish government and criticising Westminster over higher education policy.

The revelation that he attempted to quieten the leader of one of Scotland’s most revered institutions, where Mr Salmond studied economics and medieval history, is the most high-profile example yet of his questionable campaign tactics which critics say amount to bullying.

The disclosure comes after days of claims about intimidating behaviour by Yes supporters.

As the referendum campaign, which enters its final day on Wednesday, reaches a bitter end, it has emerged that:
• Ed Miliband, the Labour leader, was forced to abandon a visit to Edinburgh after he was mobbed by Yes protesters.
• Danny Alexander, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, was heckled and George Galloway said he was “threatened with a bullet” at a No campaign rally in Glasgow on Monday night.
• In an interview with The Telegraph, Sir John Major, the former prime minister, attacks the “pure bullying” of No supporters by the Yes campaign and urges them not to be “afraid” to vote to save the Union in the referendum.

The Scottish National Party has faced repeated allegations that it has put businesses and institutions under pressure to stay silent on the impact of independence — accusations always vehemently denied.

But the emails to St Andrews provide the first documented evidence that the First Minister’s office has directly attempted to influence what high-profile individuals say publicly about the impact of independence.

A source with knowledge of the incident said: “She is the principal of an independent Scottish institution. You don’t expect the First Minister of Scotland to call up and try and put words in her mouth. That is an unusual reaction.”

The issue related to an interview that Prof Richardson, the principal and vice-chancellor of St Andrews, gave to The Times newspaper which appeared in March last year.

In the interview she said: “If we were cut off from national research councils it would be catastrophic for this institution … We would lose our top academics, we would fail to attract serious academics [from other countries].”

Upon learning of the comments, Mr Salmond’s office demanded Prof Richardson issue a clarification.

Geoff Aberdein, Mr Salmond’s Chief of Staff, contacted the university’s press office suggesting a statement they wanted Prof Richardson to release under her name.

The proposed quotations praised the Scottish Government for having “risen to the challenge” over tuition fees and expressed confidence that it could protect funding after independence, while criticising the UK Government.

Prof Richardson refused to issue the comment. She sent an email to her press team saying: “I’m sorry but I’m afraid I cannot agree to this statement.”

Mr Salmond also made a telephone call to Prof Richardson, the first female principal of the 600-year-old institution.

A source familiar with the conversation said that the First Minister spent 10 minutes attempting to “put words in her mouth” about the impact of independence.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...iversity-head-over-independence-concerns.html

 

[w1z4rd]

So sad when one side has to resort to bullying. Very ANC like.

 

[Spizz]

So sad when one side has to resort to bullying. Very ANC like.

Really ghoti, the massive campaign of misinformation and intimidation by unionists from down south has been well documented now and thankfully the people of Scotland seem to have largely seen through it.

I was watching the Sky News paper review earlier and the headlines are so one sided it's not funny. Thankfully the Scottish newspapers who are mostly for the union have remained fairly balanced and left the hysterics to the English rags.

I looked a bit more into the Daily Mails headline that Chris posted a couple of days ago about the 'disgrace' that soldiers can't vote and found out the rules for voting eligibility are exactly the same as those proposed by and used by the Labour Party for the devolution campaign in 1997. It comes down to, as I suggested, logistics and how do you actually prove you are Scottish if you don't have a passport or an id?

Anyway, as I say, people are seeing through it and Twitter and Facebook is just full of examples. The BBC are particularly biased although it's of course the world famous English gutter press who are trying and failing to increase the heat.

Here's a cracker from Kevin Bridges highlighting the BBC's ninja tactics...

 

[Sherbang]

Funny https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YkLPxQp_y0

 

[Hamish McPanji]

So sad when one side has to resort to bullying. Very ANC like.

Unless you watch ANN7 and read New Age.Then it is very DA like.

Scottish independence: Accusations of intimidation and violence fly in from supporters of both sides


At least three people are believed to have been injured in the attack on members of the group Hearts Supporters for Independence

*CHRIS GREEN

Monday 01 September 2014

To a bystander, the scene outside Heart of Midlothian’s Tynecastle Stadium on Saturday afternoon must have looked like a return to the dark days of football hooliganism: a crowd of angry men surrounding a much smaller group, shouting and throwing punches.

But in a sign of how heated the debate over Scottish independence has become, the victims of the assault outside the ground in Edinburgh were not the supporters of a rival club, but campaigners for Yes Scotland arguing for the break-up of the Union.

At least three people are believed to have been injured in the attack on members of the group Hearts Supporters for Independence, who said they had been doing nothing more provocative than handing out leaflets ahead of their team’s match against Falkirk.

More here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...in-from-supporters-of-both-sides-9704743.html

 

[LazyLion]

A GUIDE TO SCOTLAND AS INDEPENDENCE VOTE NEARS

By PAUL KELBIE

Associated Press

The people of Scotland will decide on Thursday whether to end a partnership with the rest of the United Kingdom that has lasted more than 300 years. Here is a guide to Scotland as the historic vote nears.

---

WHAT IS SCOTLAND?

Scotland, with little more than 5 million people, is one of the oldest countries in the world, having been united as a single nation by King Kenneth MacAlpin in the year 843.

It remained an independent state for more than 800 years until the formation of Great Britain in 1707.

When England found itself at war with France in the early 18th century, fears that Scotland would side with the enemy prompted London to block trade and deprive Scots of property they owned south of the border unless they agreed to create a single country.

After much debate - and widespread Scottish hostility - both the Scottish and English parliaments were dissolved on May 1, 1707 and replaced with a new British one.

---

HOW IS SCOTLAND DIFFERENT FROM THE REST OF THE UNITED KINGDOM?

Scotland has its own legal system, and the national Church of Scotland was guaranteed under the Act of Union.

However, all monetary and finance matters are controlled by the government in London and the Bank of England, which was founded by Scotsman William Paterson in 1694.

---

DOESN'T SCOTLAND ALREADY HAVE ITS OWN PARLIAMENT?

A desire for more autonomy in Scotland led to Westminster holding a referendum in 1997 for the establishment of a devolved Scottish Parliament in Edinburgh.

The idea was backed by 74.3 percent of the voters and in 1999 the parliament was opened for business by veteran politician Winnie Ewing, who chaired the first meeting, with the words: "The Scottish Parliament adjourned on the 25th day of March in the year 1707 is hereby reconvened."

Members of the Scottish Parliament can legislate on education, health spending, housing, tourism, transport and a few other areas; they have no control over immigration, defense, foreign policy, employment, trade, energy or the main levers of finance.

Most of the money used by the Scottish Parliament to finance public services comes from a grant allocated by the United Kingdom government.

---

WHAT ARE SCOTLAND'S ECONOMIC STRENGTHS?

The U.K. produces more than 75 percent of the European Union's offshore oil production, of which 90 percent is extracted from Scottish waters, according to the European Commission's Joint Research Centre. Based on 2012 figures, the Scottish government says this Scottish oil contributes around £24.4 billion ($39.5 billion) to the U.K. economy.

In addition to oil, the Scottish government calculates the country could produce 25 percent of the EU's offshore wind and tidal energy and 10 percent of the EU's wave energy.

Scottish exports are worth around £100 billion year to the British Treasury, including more than £11 billion from financial services, along with almost £9 billion from food and drink, including whisky.

---

WHAT HAVE THE SCOTS GIVEN THE WORLD?

Scotland's influence has been out of proportion to its size.

The Declaration of Arbroath, asserting Scottish independence in 1320, influenced the American Declaration of Independence. A rare copy of the Scottish manuscript was given to the U.S. National Archives by the Scottish government in 2011 in appreciation of the U.S. Senate passing a resolution designating every April 6 as Tartan Day in the United States.

Over the centuries Scottish engineers, inventors, thinkers and business people helped create the modern world. James Watt helped develop the practical steam engine, Sir Alexander Fleming discovered penicillin, John Logie Baird pioneered television and Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone.

It was Englishman Winston Churchill who said: "Of all the small nations on earth, perhaps only the ancient Greeks surpass the Scots in their contribution to mankind."


Source : Sapa-AP /jje
Date : 17 Sep 2014 10:13

 

[zippy]

Really ghoti, the massive campaign of misinformation and intimidation by unionists from down south has been well documented now and thankfully the people of Scotland seem to have largely seen through it.

I was watching the Sky News paper review earlier and the headlines are so one sided it's not funny. Thankfully the Scottish newspapers who are mostly for the union have remained fairly balanced and left the hysterics to the English rags.

I looked a bit more into the Daily Mails headline that Chris posted a couple of days ago about the 'disgrace' that soldiers can't vote and found out the rules for voting eligibility are exactly the same as those proposed by and used by the Labour Party for the devolution campaign in 1997. It comes down to, as I suggested, logistics and how do you actually prove you are Scottish if you don't have a passport or an id?

Anyway, as I say, people are seeing through it and Twitter and Facebook is just full of examples. The BBC are particularly biased although it's of course the world famous English gutter press who are trying and failing to increase the heat.

Here's a cracker from Kevin Bridges highlighting the BBC's ninja tactics...

View attachment 149866

When no-campainers point out the pit falls of independence, its "bullying". When Salmond shouts down his debating opponent, its called debating.

There is a lot of coverage of the yes campaign on the BBC and Sky. Its not biased at all. When any media dares broadcast the point of view of the no campaingers, they are accused of being biased ?

Give the wan**** his independence. Half his population will move south anyway because that's where all the jobs are going. Let them join the EU and be told what to do by the Germans and French. Like Greece, Spain etc

 

[MickZA]

When no-campainers point out the pit falls of independence, its "bullying". When Salmond shouts down his debating opponent, its called debating.

Salmond may be his own worst enemy, I've heard several street interviews with "no" voters where they say if Salmond was removed from the equation they would vote "yes".

Seems many Scots don't trust the man or his politics.

 

[Spizz]

Unless you watch ANN7 and read New Age.Then it is very DA like.

Scottish independence: Accusations of intimidation and violence fly in from supporters of both sides


At least three people are believed to have been injured in the attack on members of the group Hearts Supporters for Independence

*CHRIS GREEN

Monday 01 September 2014

To a bystander, the scene outside Heart of Midlothian’s Tynecastle Stadium on Saturday afternoon must have looked like a return to the dark days of football hooliganism: a crowd of angry men surrounding a much smaller group, shouting and throwing punches.

But in a sign of how heated the debate over Scottish independence has become, the victims of the assault outside the ground in Edinburgh were not the supporters of a rival club, but campaigners for Yes Scotland arguing for the break-up of the Union.

At least three people are believed to have been injured in the attack on members of the group Hearts Supporters for Independence, who said they had been doing nothing more provocative than handing out leaflets ahead of their team’s match against Falkirk.

More here: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...in-from-supporters-of-both-sides-9704743.html

I'm not surprised, Hearts are my team and we have been/are known as staunchly Protestant and by association, British. The club have tried to fight this off for a long time but the fans haven't really changed and Union Flags are often flown at the games. Heres a random pic from my PC in which you can see the Red hand of Ulster flag also which is a highly emotive flag to fly during a Scottish game...



It's kinda stupid when you leave the place, but it was pretty important to me when I was there and part of it. So most of my mates are NO supporters because of this and if you scoot back through the pages of this thread, I'm sure I've mentioned a lot of the allegiances come down to which football team you support.

 

[Spizz]

When no-campainers point out the pit falls of independence, its "bullying". When Salmond shouts down his debating opponent, its called debating.

There is a lot of coverage of the yes campaign on the BBC and Sky. Its not biased at all. When any media dares broadcast the point of view of the no campaingers, they are accused of being biased ?

Give the wan**** his independence. Half his population will move south anyway because that's where all the jobs are going. Let them join the EU and be told what to do by the Germans and French. Like Greece, Spain etc

Salmond may be his own worst enemy, I've heard several street interviews with "no" voters where they say if Salmond was removed from the equation they would vote "yes".

Seems many Scots don't trust the man or his politics.

That's true and has been peddled constantly by the NO camp. Again, most people realise it is nothing to do with him and all about the future.

 

[Sherbang]

When no-campainers point out the pit falls of independence, its "bullying". When Salmond shouts down his debating opponent, its called debating.

There is a lot of coverage of the yes campaign on the BBC and Sky. Its not biased at all. When any media dares broadcast the point of view of the no campaingers, they are accused of being biased ?

Give the wan**** his independence. Half his population will move south anyway because that's where all the jobs are going. Let them join the EU and be told what to do by the Germans and French. Like Greece, Spain etc

Don't know what you're on about, ghoti was calling Alex Salmond's behavior bullying, based on the telegraph article above.

 

[Spizz]

When no-campainers point out the pit falls of independence, its "bullying". When Salmond shouts down his debating opponent, its called debating.

There is a lot of coverage of the yes campaign on the BBC and Sky. Its not biased at all. When any media dares broadcast the point of view of the no campaingers, they are accused of being biased ?

Give the wan**** his independence. Half his population will move south anyway because that's where all the jobs are going. Let them join the EU and be told what to do by the Germans and French. Like Greece, Spain etc

It's just a shame they won't let us. I wonder why?

Here's a page on FB which might be from one side, but there are lots of examples of the BBC bias towards the union in there. Sky seem impartial.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/686397158093931/?fref=ts

A good example is Nick Robinsons report where he asked Salmond a question and then said 'Salmond didn't answer' when in fact he gave a 7 minute answer which was cut out of the report.