Hamish McPanji
Honorary Master
****e being Scottish: http://youtu.be/G1tJJO_pVvQ
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Scottish Referendum on Independence
- Thread starter LazyLion
- Start date
OrbitalDawn
Ulysses Everett McGill
It's a Yes campaign poster. I think the Yes logo would be expected
I meant he never uttered the words specifically about Scotland. They are relevant of course, but not specific. But then i think you knew that
Yes, I know that, since I said that myself in a previous post... :erm:
This is like the ANC using a quote by (and picture of) the Dalai Lama on their campaign posters. It inherently draws the inference of some relationship between the person and the political issue.
Then we have to agree to disagree. I think with Mandela's history and reputation, it is a general quote about freedom and hope.
OrbitalDawn
Ulysses Everett McGill
Which is being co-opted for a very specific political cause, not being utilised in a general manner.
Would you feel it's just as applicable if the Better Together campaign used it?
The assumption being that Scots aren't free now?
Chris showed the pictures from a Daily Mail article. Political campaigners shouting at each other and chucking eggs? Come on ghoti, it's par for the course in Europe.
Obviously both sides have idiots and both sides have been guilty of bullying and abuse. Here's a few for you. I used google.
http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/scottish-independence-campaigner-80-attacked-1-3077094
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/lo...she-was-racially-abused-in-kirkcaldy-1.536641
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/lo...she-was-racially-abused-in-kirkcaldy-1.536641
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/09/02/scottish-independence-attacked_n_5750732.html
I would say it would be a bit daft as the allegations are that the Better Together campaign have employed negative tactics (codenamed Project Fear btw) and this quote is about hope and the unknown.
Obviously not. Hence the independence referendum
Well Scotland is free. As you have pointed out, it is its own country. Its in a union with England, Wales, etc. However I will admit, the Scots got the short end of the stick in that union. If the the No vote goes through all major British parties have promised to give Scotland a much fairer deal in the union. At the very least this will change the dynamics of the relationship.
Unfortunately not, it's already been shot down by the Tories less than a day after the 3 stooges promised it...
http://www.heraldscotland.com/polit...ry-mps-after-pm-promises-more-powers.25351117
This is true. Mandela was more for getting different people to work together. Strength in diversity.
Well, lets hope labour wins then
As much as I hate defending conservatives/tories, I dont feel the majority of these conservatives would vote against that. The hardliners might, but they are a small minority.The examples you give there are two people, and the one guy will only accept the change with greater constitutional reform. I dont think they are the dominant voice in the conservative party.
Well, lets hope labour wins then
The thing is, Westminster can give and take powers away at random and there is nothing the Scots can do about it. We're heavily outnumbered and just want to even things up a bit. Devo Max would have easily won the referendum but the complacent Tories took that choice away and now many feel stuck between a rock and a hard place and are unsure whether to believe them or not. They are politicians after all and we all know how much we can trust their promises whether they are English, Scottish or Martian.
Well thats the **** thing about being in a democracy. Not everyone gets their own way. Even if Scotland became independent, there would still be factions within it where people are not happy.
I dont think anything bad would happen to the Scots after this. One thing thats very important to politicians is voters. Scotland have shown that if you dont look after them well they can take their vote away. I honestly thing the dynamics have changed for good. Either way.
I hope so. As I mentioned way back in this thread, I like being British but knowing that Scottish votes are all but useless gets a bit annoying. Breaking up the union is a wrench, but it has to be done sometime. We are either a country with out own identity, needs and requirements or we are not. A no vote makes us North Britain in my eyes and that is the truth of it.
Nom Chompsky
High Tory
Well they are actually quite free and they get huge subsidies to boot.
Of course, the independence campaign like to play the victim card (Salmond compared the current arrangement to 'apartheid South Africa').
Luckily most Scots will see through this nonsense and a 'No' will be the result. All the betting markets have the probability of a No Vote in the high 70s or low 80s.
STS
Mafia Detective
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never doubt the power of nationalism
Please, please, please tell me why the UK is so desperate to hold onto Scotland if it is receiving 'huge subsidies'? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
I would have thought that if one thing was clear about this campaign, it is that you have to cut through the BS and think for yourself.
LazyLion
King of de Jungle
WHAT HAPPENS IF SCOTLAND VOTES YES?
If Scotland votes for independence from the United Kingdom on Thursday, the consequences would be enormous. Here are some of the most pressing issues:
MARKETS: The British would have to calm the markets in order to stabilize the pound. Statements would be expected early on Friday from UK Chancellor George Osborne, Bank of England governor Mark Carney and Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond.
RESIGNATIONS: UK Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron has insisted he will not resign in the event of Scottish independence, but after the loss of a third of Britain's landmass and about a tenth of its population he may be forced to. Since parliament is currently in recess for the party conference season, an immediate vote of no-confidence in him is unlikely. The future of Ed Miliband, the leader of the opposition Labour party, would also be in question as his party has been very prominent in the pro-union campaign in Scotland.
NEGOTIATIONS: Edinburgh has said it wants to become independent by March 24, 2016 in the event of a "yes" vote, giving it 18 months to negotiate the split with London. The agenda would be long, including issues such as currency, the removal of Britain's nuclear weapons from Scotland, border controls, oil, and the pensions and social security systems.
BUILDING A STATE: Among many things, Scotland would have to build up its own army and open its own embassies abroad. It would also have to issue passports for its citizens, negotiate international trade agreements and apply for - or try to retain - membership of institutions such as the European Union and NATO.
PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS: Britain is due to hold parliamentary elections to Westminster on May 7, 2015. Scotland would still be entitled to send 59 parliamentarians, of which 40 are currently Labour. If Labour won the UK election based on Scottish support, it could then lose its majority when Scotland became independent the following year. The prospect has led to suggestions that the elections be postponed, something which has only previously happened in wartime.
Questions have also been raised about the potential for Scots to be sitting on both sides of the Westminster-Holyrood negotiating table.
REFERENDUM ON EU MEMBERSHIP: If the Conservatives win re-election as the UK government next year, Cameron has promised to hold a referendum on British membership of the EU by 2017. If the Scots, who are much more pro-EU than their compatriots elsewhere in the UK, decide to leave the UK, it becomes much more likely that Britain will in turn leave the EU.
Source : Sapa-dpa /mr
Date : 17 Sep 2014 16:27
If Scotland votes for independence from the United Kingdom on Thursday, the consequences would be enormous. Here are some of the most pressing issues:
MARKETS: The British would have to calm the markets in order to stabilize the pound. Statements would be expected early on Friday from UK Chancellor George Osborne, Bank of England governor Mark Carney and Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond.
RESIGNATIONS: UK Conservative Prime Minister David Cameron has insisted he will not resign in the event of Scottish independence, but after the loss of a third of Britain's landmass and about a tenth of its population he may be forced to. Since parliament is currently in recess for the party conference season, an immediate vote of no-confidence in him is unlikely. The future of Ed Miliband, the leader of the opposition Labour party, would also be in question as his party has been very prominent in the pro-union campaign in Scotland.
NEGOTIATIONS: Edinburgh has said it wants to become independent by March 24, 2016 in the event of a "yes" vote, giving it 18 months to negotiate the split with London. The agenda would be long, including issues such as currency, the removal of Britain's nuclear weapons from Scotland, border controls, oil, and the pensions and social security systems.
BUILDING A STATE: Among many things, Scotland would have to build up its own army and open its own embassies abroad. It would also have to issue passports for its citizens, negotiate international trade agreements and apply for - or try to retain - membership of institutions such as the European Union and NATO.
PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS: Britain is due to hold parliamentary elections to Westminster on May 7, 2015. Scotland would still be entitled to send 59 parliamentarians, of which 40 are currently Labour. If Labour won the UK election based on Scottish support, it could then lose its majority when Scotland became independent the following year. The prospect has led to suggestions that the elections be postponed, something which has only previously happened in wartime.
Questions have also been raised about the potential for Scots to be sitting on both sides of the Westminster-Holyrood negotiating table.
REFERENDUM ON EU MEMBERSHIP: If the Conservatives win re-election as the UK government next year, Cameron has promised to hold a referendum on British membership of the EU by 2017. If the Scots, who are much more pro-EU than their compatriots elsewhere in the UK, decide to leave the UK, it becomes much more likely that Britain will in turn leave the EU.
Source : Sapa-dpa /mr
Date : 17 Sep 2014 16:27
Nom Chompsky
High Tory
It is not like the subsidies are in dispute. If you don't like the 'gutter press', I can quote from a more respected publication:
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/373e592a-196c-11e4-8730-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3DaHn1hh2
Well despite my misgivings about the subsidy (I see both Labour and Conservatives pushing for a review of the arrangement), my preference for stability & prosperity in Scotland overides my misgivings. I really wouldn't want to see Scotland become the 'Venezuela of the North'. I want to visit Scotland some day as a tourist, hiking in the Highlands
. There are simply no proper plans in place for an independent Scotland. Yes I agree that Scotland has most probably been given the short end of the stick on a number of occasions (especially with the experimental poll tax) but to say that there has been a complete disregard for Scotland by the English is complete hogwash. A victory for the independence campaign would be a sad day indeed - a victory of style over substance.