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Scottish Referendum on Independence
- Thread starter LazyLion
- Start date
More like reason triumphs over foolishness.
MickeyD
RIP
http://news.sky.com/story/1338279/sky-forecast-scotland-rejects-independence
Click on a region to see more details...
Nom Chompsky
High Tory
A comment from the Guardian article:
Thank you Scotland. Now to drink some English tea and celebrate the preservation of the Union!
Thank you Scotland. Now to drink some English tea and celebrate the preservation of the Union!
That's how some may see it. But watching my country die is very sad.
Unfortunately fear has won and instead of building something great, we settle for sucking the hind titt. Settle for mediocrity.
And now they are on TV cheering and waving union flags. Fsck me, my country has died this morning. Scotland has died and most of the people are happy about it.
Mortymoose
Honorary Master
Embarrasment, NOT! , HO has already to be on the lookout for the English Father in Law, as he will want to take a dig at me, replied to her that he must remember something, it was not the English that denied us our independence, but rather the Scots Choosing our own destiny, if the Scots had voted yes, The English would have been in a tight spot, a very tight spot....
I am frustrated that a lot of Scots had no balls and were gullible to the scaremongering tactics of the Westminister lobby.
On the other hand, with the world rapidly changing, it might stand well to be part of this union.... I was touched when I saw an older lady last night, greetin' rambling on that her mother was Scottish and her da English, she was a Scot residing in Scotland, but where did the whole process leave her.....?
Anyhow, somewhere out there, there is an asteroid heading our way, maybe not today ....but.....
Yeah, I can't help thinking it's a classic case of 'first world problems'. Scotland has infrastructure, low unemployment and is highly educated, but it's a clear result for us being North British rather than Scottish and that hurts a bit just now. I like being Scottish 
But I've always known we are more complacent brains than brave hearts and tonight has just reinforced that.
But I've always known we are more complacent brains than brave hearts and tonight has just reinforced that.
Arthur
Honorary Master
Friday is rubbish day here, and just back from taking out the garbage (nice little theme for meditation, btw - taking out the garbage 
).
Some quick thoughts on the No result:
1. I'm mildly disappointed of course, but not surprised. A clear Yes would have sent strong signals to the whole world about regional autonomy, and that is something I support as a general principle, including in SA.
2. Scotland losing the Independence vote doesn't mean Britain goes back to the status quo ante. Nearly half the Scots voted for independence, and that has huge ramifications going forward, not just for Scotland but for the whole Union. Greater autonomy must follow inexorably.
3. The direction is correct: Greater devolution and a steady dismantling of the over-centralised megastate. This is something to be welcomed. It is the future not just for Britain but for any progressive country.
4. Regional power, local power, grass roots power - this is the future. It runs contra the trend of the last 150 years and especially the post-war period. People everywhere feel the Modern State has become too large, too powerful, too intrusive. This is a sign of hope.
5. Economic and monetary ties do not necessarily require political union. The Principle of Subsidiarity (more) is being rediscovered, and political sentiment globally is trending in that direction. This is to be welcomed, encouraged and supported.
).Some quick thoughts on the No result:
1. I'm mildly disappointed of course, but not surprised. A clear Yes would have sent strong signals to the whole world about regional autonomy, and that is something I support as a general principle, including in SA.
2. Scotland losing the Independence vote doesn't mean Britain goes back to the status quo ante. Nearly half the Scots voted for independence, and that has huge ramifications going forward, not just for Scotland but for the whole Union. Greater autonomy must follow inexorably.
3. The direction is correct: Greater devolution and a steady dismantling of the over-centralised megastate. This is something to be welcomed. It is the future not just for Britain but for any progressive country.
4. Regional power, local power, grass roots power - this is the future. It runs contra the trend of the last 150 years and especially the post-war period. People everywhere feel the Modern State has become too large, too powerful, too intrusive. This is a sign of hope.
5. Economic and monetary ties do not necessarily require political union. The Principle of Subsidiarity (more) is being rediscovered, and political sentiment globally is trending in that direction. This is to be welcomed, encouraged and supported.
Mortymoose
Honorary Master
Don't know why this popped into my head, I use to know a ton of these similarities , Afrikaans words that were almost the same in Scottish, when I was much younger and Jock the Great was still on this mortal sphere, we would drink and try compare words....
Ken - Ken
Gaan - Ga'an
Kerk - Kirk
Moenie - Dinnae (sounds similar)
Hou - Haud (sounds similar)
On the N7 , Between Nuwerus and Van Rhyansdorp, there is a Road Sign, pointing to a name of a place....."Douse the Glim!" , not many locals understand the history behind this name or that it is even Scottish, everytime I drive past," For a brief wee moment, The sounds of the Boer War come to life"
Yawn! This Coffee tastes lekker, ek se!
Ken - Ken
Gaan - Ga'an
Kerk - Kirk
Moenie - Dinnae (sounds similar)
Hou - Haud (sounds similar)
On the N7 , Between Nuwerus and Van Rhyansdorp, there is a Road Sign, pointing to a name of a place....."Douse the Glim!" , not many locals understand the history behind this name or that it is even Scottish, everytime I drive past," For a brief wee moment, The sounds of the Boer War come to life"
Yawn! This Coffee tastes lekker, ek se!
Scotland "died" 300 years ago
Friday is rubbish day here, and just back from taking out the garbage (nice little theme for meditation, btw - taking out the garbage
Some quick thoughts on the No result:
1. I'm mildly disappointed of course, but not surprised. A clear Yes would have sent strong signals to the whole world about regional autonomy, and that is something I support as a general principle, including in SA.
2. Scotland losing the Independence vote doesn't mean Britain goes back to the status quo ante. Nearly half the Scots voted for independence, and that has huge ramifications going forward, not just for Scotland but for the whole Union. Greater autonomy must follow inexorably.
3. The direction is correct: Greater devolution and a steady dismantling of the over-centralised megastate. This is something to be welcomed. It is the future not just for Britain but for any progressive country.
4. Regional power, local power, grass roots power - this is the future. It runs contra the trend of the last 150 years and especially the post-war period. People everywhere feel the Modern State has become too large, too powerful, too intrusive. This is a sign of hope.
5. Economic and monetary ties do not necessarily require political union. The Principle of Subsidiarity (more) is being rediscovered, and political sentiment globally is trending in that direction. This is to be welcomed, encouraged and supported.
I like that idea, but whose to draw the borders - easy misstep to "homelands"
Arthur
Honorary Master
With true subsidiarity, borders become less and less relevant - the locals at that place decide their issues and govern themselves. It in no way means regional and other alliances are not possible - on the contrary they are encouraged, enabled, become easier, less fraught. The more you strengthen power closer to the people it affects, the more they can reach out and cooperate peacefully with others. This truth is slowly being rediscovered. The exact opposite is true - almost every war we've had for ages is because one group dominates central power and seeks to impose itself on others from an over-centralised political structure.
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Yes, but taking an SA look at it:
Skilled workers would flock to WC/GP, leaving EC and others skillless. They will crash into poverty and become "just another failed african state"
Arthur
Honorary Master
Then to survive they (eg E Cape) need to develop policies that really and truly develop their people and their economy, instead of using the central state to expropriate those elsewhere to subsidise their lunatic political, economic and social backwardness.
The more autonomous the regions become the easier it is to see what works and what doesn't. People will vote for what works. Right now the central state is the only option people have to obtain regional development, so they will vote for a stronger central state. But that jsut perpetuates the illusion that loopy policies are working, whereas they are in fact impoverishing the entire country.
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Is this not the point of local governments?
I am all for the idea, but I do see some "easy targets" for abuse
Nom Chompsky
High Tory
Yeah Arthur what about certain immigrant communities which will inevitably enforce Sharia Law? No thanks...
Ag, you know, I'm feeling quite sad more than gutted.
Sad that people are content to do as they are told and don't have the stomach or the belief to go it alone, and to be fair, life for most people in Scotland is going well.
No stomach and no heart is what I'm used to from the Scots. We've always been small minded and irrelevant and I think it's down to fear and no small amount of indoctrination, but to watch the scenes of celebration is really sticking in throat.
The victors should really smile internally and go to bed. There is nothing to celebrate in being Scottish this morning. Theses scenes render me a North British and I need to get my head around it.
Arthur
Honorary Master
It is. But the central state and regional government has grabbed too much power. Hence the need to devolve, ie return power to the communities.