Scottish Referendum on Independence

Should Scotland be an independent country?

  • Yes

    Votes: 59 53.2%

  • No

    Votes: 52 46.8%
  • Total voters
    111
  • Poll closed .
bwana said:
You also said earlier in the thread that you "like being British" - so what's the problem? You're still both. ;)
Click to expand...

Sure. Just more British than Scottish now :)

The campaign of fear was annoying and I think Scots have been conned. But also as I said, life in Scotland is good for most.
 
PROFILE ALEX SALMOND: A WINNER DESPITE LOSING THE REFERENDUM

Despite failing to win independence in the referendum he brought about, Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond has nevertheless emerged a winner.

Even before voting began, the three main parties in Westminster had already made a last-minute promise to hand over more powers to the devolved parliament in Edinburgh, Holyrood, if Scots rejected independence.

In his speech conceding defeat, Salmond said that the Scottish people -whether they voted Yes or No - would expect promised moves towards more devolution to be carried out "in rapid course."

The 59-year-old has long been counted as one of Britain's wiliest political operators - clever, strategically brilliant, charming and humourous.

"He's without question the shrewdest political client I've ever had," said Peter Kellner, president of the You Gov opinion polling company.

In his time as leader, Salmond has dragged his Scottish National Party (SNP) from the fringes of politics to the governing power in Edinburgh, ridding it of the feuding that had weakened it and building support for a more gradualist approach to winning independence.

But he has also been criticized as a bully and a troublemaker.

He first came to national attention when as a young parliamentarian he interrupted then chancellor Nigel Lawson's delivery of the budget in 1988, and had to be ejected from the House of Commons.

For a long time he was also one of NATO loudest critics, attacking the 1999 bombing of Serbia as being of "dubious legality" and "unpardonable folly."

He is also firmly against nuclear weapons, and had he won independence he intended to have Britain's arsenal removed promptly from their base on the Clyde in western Scotland.

But such is his political skill that despite all that he managed to reassure many Scots and argue convincingly that NATO would welcome an independent Scotland with open arms.

Born on New Year's Eve 1954 in the town of Linlithgow, not far from Edinburgh, Salmond had a Christian upbringing, and both his parents were civil servants. His father voted Tory - relatively uncommon in Scotland which tends to be more left-wing - while his mother was a Labour voter.

It was while studying at the University of St Andrews that he first became a member of the Scottish National Party, then very much a minority party. After university he became an economist, working among other places for the government and at the Royal Bank of Scotland where he specialized in the oil industry.

Like many of his countrymen, Salmond is known to be a keen golfer and enjoys a flutter on the horses. Otherwise he has kept his private life just that. His wife Moira, whom he married when he was 26 and she 43, has only been spotted in public with him on a handful of occasions. They have no children.

First elected to Westminster in 1987, he became SNP leader three years later, and was also elected to Holyrood, after its establishment in 1999.

He stepped down from the SNP leadership in 2000 but made a comeback when the SNP did badly in the 2004 Scottish elections.

He then sealed his political reputation by leading the party to new heights - he became first minister in 2007 and led the SNP to form the first majority Scottish government four years later.

Nevertheless, when he signed a deal on holding a referendum on Scottish independence in 2012 with British Prime Minister David Cameron, few thought Salmond could win it, as opinion polls showed Scots consistently preferred devolution to outright independence.

Cameron had refused to allow devolution as a third option on the ballot paper in the belief that Scots would reject independence and that that would then kill off any more demands for further transfer of powers.

But thanks largely to Salmond's skill as a campaigner, the pro-unionists lost a commanding lead over the pro-independence camp in the final weeks before the referendum, forcing Westminster to make a last-minute devolution offer if Scots rejected independence.

They will now have to stick to that promise, while Salmond has built up a much bigger grassroots movement in support of independence and the SNP. When he finally retires, he will leave the party a force to be reckoned with.


Source : Sapa-dpa /gm
Date : 19 Sep 2014 08:49
 
LEADER OF NO CAMPAIGN CALLS FOR UNITY AFTER VOTE AGAINST INDEPENDENCE

The leader of the campaign against Scottish independence, former Westminster cabinet minister Alastair Darling, calls for unity after a victory for the No vote in the referendum.

"This has been a campaign that has both energized and divided," he said, urging supporters of both camps to show that "after this vote, we can remain united."

"You represent the majority of opinion," he told supporters of the No campaign, adding that the substantial number of voters who supported independence showed that "every political party must now listen to their cry for change."


Source : Sapa-dpa /gm
Date : 19 Sep 2014 08:42
 
DISMAY AND JUBILATION AS SCOTLAND REJECTS INDEPENDENCE

There were mixed reactions in Edinburgh on Friday, as the news broke that Scottish voters had rejected independence from the United Kingdom by a clear majority.

Despite the rain, supporters from both sides began gathering outside Holyrood, the Scottish parliament, in the early hours. "Yes" supporters were clearly dismayed and disappointed.

"I'm embarrassed because the world's eyes were on Scotland today and we let ourselves down," Lynsey Harding, 31, unemployed, told dpa. "I genuinely don't know why people voted no.

"If the 'No' campaigners come round the corner and start being smug, they're not going to get a warm welcome."

Dermot Barr, 30, who was covered in Yes stickers and waving Scotland's flag, the Saltire, added: "It's a bit devastating. But 2 million people just said they're not happy with the way Westminster are ruling and everybody needs to get up off their [...] and make sure that changes."

Among the No supporters there was a mixture of relief and jubilation.

Steve Waite, 22, was among a group of medical students who stayed up all night to watch the results come in.

"It was a bit of a scare," he said. "But the majority of Scots decided that the more cautious and progressive approach was the right decision rather than a radical and flippant attitude towards our future."

"Scotland might have been able to do well on its own, but we're better together," added Freya Richardson, 22, also a student. "Why be smaller when you could be one big country that does really well?"

She and her friend Arbell Lewis, 21, said they hoped the vote would not divide the people of Scotland, as had been feared in the run-up to the vote.

"Hopefully we should join together in the decision and support each other," said Lewis.


Source : Sapa-dpa /gm
Date : 19 Sep 2014 08:55
 
Just come into a cafe for a fry up to cheer me up. Asked for a cup of tea, the guy said 'English?' I nearly gave him a slap :D
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Which goes both ways, does it not?
Click to expand...
Indeed. Otherwise we move away from principle and into expediency, which is something else entirely.

It is not entirely beyond the bounds of possibility that Scotland will erect its own tax office and raise its own taxes. Westminster and Holyrood will negotiate and set off taxes and transfers for common elements such as defence, some aspects of telecommunications and posts, foreign affairs and aid, etc. Hopefully education and social services will be self-funded over time.

All this in the service of Subsidiarity. Or so I hope.
 
The post-mortem begins :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29223984

Scotland has voted No to independence in a referendum, meaning its 300-year old union with the UK will continue. So how did the No campaign win?

Posters for the Better Together campaign are seen in their Edinburgh office The No side had a head a start
1. They were always the favourites

The No camp had a head start. When the Edinburgh Agreement was signed on 15 October 2012, paving the way for a referendum in 2014, polls suggested about a third of Scotland's 4.2m voters wanted independence.

A plethora of polls over the next 18 months consistently put the No camp ahead.

In June - by which time there had been 65 opinion polls - all bar one had put the No side in the lead, according to polling expert Professor John Curtice.

"The No side were always favourites to win, which is why the YouGov poll for the Sunday Times which put the Yes vote ahead about 10 days ago created such an upset," he says.

Happily for the No side, most of the following polls put them back in the lead again and they were able to finish ahead of the underdogs on polling day.

A union flag and saltire held up in front of the Edinburgh One in three Scots say they are "equally Scottish and British"
2. The Scottish feel British

A resurgence of Britishness - either caused by, or coinciding with the referendum - is credited with giving the pro-union No campaign a boost.

The number of people living in Scotland who chose British as their national identity rose from 15% in 2011 to 23% in 2014, according to the Scottish Social Attitudes Survey. The number of people who chose Scottish fell from 75% to 65% over the same period.

However, there is also evidence that the rising tide of British sentiment in Scotland has taken place over a longer timescale.

Almost one third of Scots now say they are "equally Scottish and British" - the highest proportion since former Labour PM Tony Blair came to office in 1997, according to the survey. Less than one in four describe themselves as "Scottish not British".

"At the end of the day, Scotland still feels moderately British," says Prof Curtice.

No leaflet No leaflets often emphasised risks such as pensions, jobs and money
3. The risk factor

The No campaign came under fire from the Yes campaign for being negative, with some dubbing it "Project Fear".

However, the No vote suggests Better Together was successful in "drawing people back from the prospect of taking a risk that was not necessary," according to Prof Curtice. Just two days ahead of the polls, voters were twice as likely (49%) to regard independence as a risk than staying in the Union (25%), he says.

In April, Scotland's First Minster Alex Salmond called the No campaign "the most miserable, negative, depressing and thoroughly boring" in modern times. In contrast, he said the "Yes" campaign was "positive, uplifting and hopeful".

More recently the leader of the SNP criticised the "scaremongering" of No, saying the Yes side was "determined to focus on opportunity".

The Better Together campaign always denied being too negative, saying the campaign was a positive one, emphasising what the union had achieved with Scotland in it, and how much more could be done when the UK "stands together".

However, it often accused Mr Salmond of not giving answers, with Mr Darling saying voters were "very alive to the risks" and uncertainty of independence.

Earlier this week, UK Prime Minister David Cameron told Scottish voters it was his "duty" to warn them of the stark costs of a "painful divorce".
Click to expand...
 
The Vote is closer than one thinks, when you consider the Loyalists (Protestants)+(Masonic lodge)
will have voted for the Crown. One can only hazard a guess of the numbers but I would have to say
300,000 or more.
That would of brought it to more of a 50-50 split vote.
 
MrMag said:
The Vote is closer than one thinks, when you consider the Loyalists (Protestants)+(Masonic lodge)
will have voted for the Crown. One can only hazard a guess of the numbers but I would have to say
300,000 or more.
That would of brought it to more of a 50-50 split vote.
Click to expand...

:wtf:
 
INVESTORS BREATHE SIGH OF RELIEF AT SCOTTISH VOTE
By PAN PYLAS
Associated Press

Scotland's decision to reject independence from the United Kingdom helped shore up British markets Friday but worries over future constitutional changes kept a lid on the relief rally.

With all 32 Scottish councils having declared, the No campaign won 55.3 percent of the votes cast in Thursday's referendum against 44.7 percent who backed independence. The 10-point or so victory margin was wider than expected - most opinion polls on the eve of the vote showed a narrower 4-point victory for proponents of the union with England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

British stocks responded positively to the news Friday, with the FTSE 100 index up 0.6 percent in early trading.

"From an investor's perspective, it is a relief to resolve this uncertainty and the markets look to react accordingly," said Mark Dampier, head of investment research at stockbrokers Hargreaves Lansdown.

Those companies with Scottish connections outperformed the general market. Among them, Royal Bank of Scotland PLC, which is majority-owned by the U.K. government, was up over 4 percent, while Lloyds Banking Group PLC rose 2 percent. Oil giant BP PLC, which has sizeable operations off the shores of Scotland, was up 1.1 percent, too.

Royal Bank of Scotland, which is majority-owned by the U.K. government since receiving a bailout during the financial crisis in 2008, said it was abandoning a contingency plan that included moving its registered head office down south to England.

"That contingency plan is no longer required," the bank said in a statement. "Following the result it is business as usual for all our customers across the U.K. and RBS."

In the currency markets, the pound was solid too at the end of a week in which it has rallied strongly on expectations of a Yes vote.

Having earlier risen to a two-year high of 1.2817 euros, the pound settled around the 1.2760 euro mark, still 0.2 percent higher on the day. Against the dollar, the pound was up a further 0.1 percent at $1.6461.

But, as is the nature of markets, the focus is swiftly moving on. There are some concerns being voiced about how powers will be devolved to Scotland, as promised, and to the rest of the U.K. In a statement Friday, Prime Minister David Cameron said he was looking at a broad-based constitutional rejig in the U.K.

"The Scottish referendum may be over, but political uncertainty is here to stay in the U.K.," said Kathleen Brooks, research director at Forex.com. "Markets tend to be fearful of political uncertainty, especially when it could change the political landscape in a major global power like the U.K."


Source : Sapa-AP /gm
Date : 19 Sep 2014 10:19
 
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