Scottish Referendum on Independence

Should Scotland be an independent country?

  • Yes

    Votes: 59 53.2%
  • No

    Votes: 52 46.8%

  • Total voters
    111
  • Poll closed .
Numerous high-profile names have added their vote to the much-publicised debate. Among those arguing for independence are Frankie Boyle, The Proclaimers, Alan Cumming, Billy Bragg, Sean Connery and Annie Lennox.

The list of those who want Scotland to stay within the union include JK Rowling, David Bowie, Eddie Izzard, Alex Ferguson, Mike Myers, Emma Thompson and Chris Hoy.



Emma Thompson? Is she Scottish?

With that accent? Not bloody likely. :p

Thompson was born in Paddington, London, on 15 April 1959. A member of a show business family, her mother is the Scottish actress Phyllida Law, while her English father, Eric Thompson, was the writer and narrator of the popular children's television series The Magic Roundabout. She has one sister, Sophie Thompson, who also works as an actress. Thompson's godfather was English theatre director and writer Ronald Eyre. The family lived in West Hampstead in north London, and Thompson was educated at Camden School for Girls. However, she spent much time in Scotland during her childhood, and often visited Ardentinny where her grandparents and uncle lived who ran the Primrose Tearoom until she was 15.
 
Scottish Independence: Darth Vader Music Chases Labour MPs Around Glasgow


Half the*Labour*shadow cabinet travelled to Scotland today to campaign against Scottish independence. They were met in Glasgow by a man on a rickshaw playing the Imperial Death March from*Star Wars, who then chased them down the street.

Video here : Empire strikes back: http://youtu.be/DiMXuEmqAHA

"People of Glasgow, this is your imperial masters," he shouted, persued by TV cameras and journalists. "Say hello to your imperial masters. These lovely people, they have travelled all the way from England to tell us they are better to rule us than anybody else, our imperial masters. People of Glasgow your imperial masters have arrived."

He added in a Darth Vader singing voice: "Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh duh, duuuuh."

The Labour figures targeted included shadow Northern Ireland secretary Ivan Lewis, shadow energy secretary Caroline Flint and shadow cabinet office minister John Ashworth. Shadow equalities minister Kate Green was not impressed. "Don't be silly," she told him as he and his driver cycled past.

The video was recorded and uploaded by Glasgow Scottish rebel Matt Lygate. "It's official THE EMPIRE IS OVER!" he said on Facebook.

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5804224


Lol. What an irritating twat, full points for the idea but meh implementation
 
Cameron in the Scottish referendum talks

The timing of the vote, the wording of the question, and allowing 16-17-year-olds to vote.*

When David Cameron and Alex Salmond signed*the deal*in October 2012 allowing the Scottish parliament to stage a legally binding referendum on independence, the consensus was that Cameron had"outplayed"*the First Minister. After calling the SNP leader's bluff in January 2012, the PM had denied him the second question he wanted on devo max.*

I wrote at the time*that this view was mistaken and that Salmond was "the winner" from the agreement. That this was the case is even clearer now, with all of the concessions the First Minister secured working to his advantage.*

Here are the three ways in which he*outmanoeuvred*Cameron.*

1.*The timing of the vote: 2014, rather than 2013

Rest of article here : http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/how-salmond-outplayed-cameron-scottish-referendum-talks
 
Anyone in the mood to give me a tl;dr about the benefits/drawbacks of independence?

Some of the obvious drawbacks include them having to reapply to join the EU and NATO, and them having to basically set up all the necessary State machinery from scratch.

Not quite. As a country, Scotland already has many separate institutions and systems in place such as law, education. civil service and parliament.
 
Yeah, but military, health services etc.?

Do they have separate courts, prosecuting authority, police service etc.?

A lot is separate already and always has been. There will be challenges with the military with Scots serving in broad-based British regiments I guess, but there are many Scottish regiments so in theory a Scottish army.

Otherwise, we have a completely different and separate system of law and courts (including verdicts unique to Scotland) and our own prosecuting authority (procurator fiscal).

The NHS in Scotland is administered in Scotland. We have a Police Service of Scotland already. The Scottish education system is totally different and independent also. We print our own money.

Basically there's a whole host of things already in place. Heck we even have our own Queen after she was crowned the Queen Elizabeth the FIRST in a separate ceremony in Edinburgh :)
 
A lot is separate already and always has been. There will be challenges with the military with Scots serving in broad-based British regiments I guess, but there are many Scottish regiments so in theory a Scottish army.

Otherwise, we have a completely different and separate system of law and courts (including verdicts unique to Scotland) and our own prosecuting authority (procurator fiscal).

The NHS in Scotland is administered in Scotland. We have a Police Service of Scotland already. The Scottish education system is totally different and independent also. We print our own money.

Basically there's a whole host of things already in place. Heck we even have our own Queen after she was crowned the Queen Elizabeth the FIRST in a separate ceremony in Edinburgh :)

Ah okay, so for a large amount of things the connection to the UK is more nominal and ceremonial rather than necessarily linked. Much like Aus, Canada and NZ still have governors general who in theory represent the UK there, but in reality don't do much of anything.

Are you for independence, and is your view based on pragmatic realities or more of a spirit-of-Braveheart kind of thing? :p
 
REFERENDUM BATTLE PUTS SCOTTISH LABOUR ON BACKFOOT

(PICTURE)

Old loyalties are being shaken up in the campaign for Scotland's independence referendum -- and the Labour party is feeling that more than most in its industrial heartland.

In places like Cumbernauld, a new town outside Glasgow built in the 1950s to house a rapidly growing overspill, support for Labour has ebbed and pro-independence ranks have swelled.

"Yes" campaign supporter Stephen McGrath said he felt "betrayed" by Labour as the opposition party's leader Ed Miliband visited this week in a bid to bolster the unionists ahead of a tight vote on September 18.

Miliband "represents nothing here -- the situation here gets worse but they in Westminster do nothing," he said, after the party leader spoke in a local community centre.

The son of a leading Marxist academic who was raised in London and educated at the elite Oxford University, Miliband's background is a far cry from that of many voters in traditional working class Labour areas such as Cumbernauld.

While many of his policies are more left-wing than those of former Labour leader Tony Blair, who led the party's modernisation in the 1990s, polls indicate that he often struggles to connect with voters.

Some Labour lawmakers argue that former foreign secretary David Miliband would have been a better leader than his brother, after a string of gaffes which have fuelled Ed's image as a political geek.

When the Labour party leader came to Scotland with Prime Minister David Cameron, Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond said they were part of a "Westminster elite" who were "in a state of absolute panic" over the independence vote.

Polls suggest that across Scotland, Labour voters are rapidly moving towards the "Yes" camp, despite their party supporting a "No" vote.

A YouGov survey released Sunday which gave "Yes" a narrow lead said the proportion of Labour voters intending to vote "Yes" had risen from 18 percent a month ago to 35 percent.

Cumbernauld is some 20 kilometres (12 miles) outside Glasgow and has regularly been voted the ugliest place in the United Kingdom.

The town centre is a crossroads overlooked by a gigantic shopping mall, giving it the feel of an airport.

"It's all about the shopping centre here. It's not very sexy," said Ben Higgins, as he sipped a beer in the mall, which locals compare to a creature from the sci-film "Alien."

The town of 50,000 people has been compared to bombed-out Kabul and its shopping centre to "a rabbit warren on stilts" but it was once a thriving place.

The town was designed as a worker's ideal and was the backdrop for the much-loved 1981 Scottish film "Gregory's Girl", a coming-of-age romantic comedy.

Industrial decline has hit Cumbernauld hard and the unemployment rate now stands at 9.5 percent compared to 7.3 percent for Scotland as a whole.

Disillusionment with Labour is rampant, as was shown in the 2011 Scottish Parliament election in which three-time local lawmaker Cathie Craigie lost to Salmond's Scottish National Party (SNP).

Her support fell by 13.7 percent to 40.1 percent, while the pro-independence SNP romped home with 53.8 percent of the vote.

Miliband in his speech was scathing about former Conservative prime minister Margaret Thatcher's free market reforms in the 1980s, still deeply unpopular in Scotland, and talked about the need to defend social welfare.

But he argued that a "No" vote in the referendum came from the "head, heart and soul".

"I think the independence proposition just doesn't add up on social justice," he told the community centre.

In the audience, Labour supporter John Brownlie agreed.

"I found him very convincing, this has always been Labour territory and it still is," he said.

"But people are concerned. There is a lot of unemployment here."

Fellow Labour backer Elizabeth Hay said the solution was not to switch to the pro-independence camp.

"They keep talking rubbish and promise kingdom and heaven to the people and many believe them.

"I'm starting to get the jitters," she added.


Source : Sapa-AFP /kn
Date : 12 Sep 2014 04:42
 
Ah okay, so for a large amount of things the connection to the UK is more nominal and ceremonial rather than necessarily linked. Much like Aus, Canada and NZ still have governors general who in theory represent the UK there, but in reality don't do much of anything.

Are you for independence, and is your view based on pragmatic realities or more of a spirit-of-Braveheart kind of thing? :p

Lol. Well like most Scots, I like being British as there is a lot of water under the bridge and we are so closely related in terms of every day life and we share a common history including many wars together. But politically, I have always been for independence simply because we also have our own history in Scotland and more importantly we have a different needs as a collection of people.

It doesn't make sense that we are allocated a budget as a country to run our own institutions (as mentioned earlier) and have little power over taxes. It also doesn't make sense that Scottish Tory MP's are rarer than tits on a bull but we get whatever government the South East of England votes for us. There is one at the moment for example but often there are none. This results in unfair debacles such as the hugely unpopular poll tax being trialled on Scotland by Thatcher a year before it was due to being introduced in England.

Being away and choosing to live elsewhere, I have tried not to be a hypocrite and think too much about things as there are obviously benefits to both sides, and it's frustrating not being able to contribute, I thought it best leave it in the hands of those who are there. But watching how the campaign of intimidation and misinformation has been run by the Better Together mob has pushed me over the edge and I'm actually quite upset and super frustrated that I don't have a vote and I never made a plan to go home at least for a couple of years and make my mark.
 
Lol. Well like most Scots, I like being British as there is a lot of water under the bridge and we are so closely related in terms of every day life and we share a common history including many wars together. But politically, I have always been for independence simply because we also have our own history in Scotland and more importantly we have a different needs as a collection of people.

It doesn't make sense that we are allocated a budget as a country to run our own institutions (as mentioned earlier) and have little power over taxes. It also doesn't make sense that Scottish Tory MP's are rarer than tits on a bull but we get whatever government the South East of England votes for us. There is one at the moment for example but often there are none. This results in unfair debacles such as the hugely unpopular poll tax being trialled on Scotland by Thatcher a year before it was due to being introduced in England.

Being away and choosing to live elsewhere, I have tried not to be a hypocrite and think too much about things as there are obviously benefits to both sides, and it's frustrating not being able to contribute, I thought it best leave it in the hands of those who are there. But watching how the campaign of intimidation and misinformation has been run by the Better Together mob has pushed me over the edge and I'm actually quite upset and super frustrated that I don't have a vote and I never made a plan to go home at least for a couple of years and make my mark.

Cool, thanks for your thoughts.
 
Anyone in the mood to give me a tl;dr about the benefits/drawbacks of independence?

Some of the obvious drawbacks include them having to reapply to join the EU and NATO, and them having to basically set up all the necessary State machinery from scratch.

Scotland have most of the institutions necessary to sustain independence. The big driving force (IMO) is the need to separate themselves from the English and follow their own destiny. They have been trying this for centuries. They have fought wars over it.

Go! Scotland, go!
 
Scotland have most of the institutions necessary to sustain independence. The big driving force (IMO) is the need to separate themselves from the English and follow their own destiny. They have been trying this for centuries. They have fought wars over it.

Go! Scotland, go!

This may mean tough days ahead for Scotland, especially if companies migrate south before it happens. This could also split friends, families and neighbourhoods.
 
Cool, thanks for your thoughts.
The true Scotsman is the proudest individual not to actually exist :p

The Scots are very proud people and the Tories ability to continually address them like unruly children is what has led to the increased support for the 'Yes' campaign.

The SNP would have been very happy with the devo-max option. That Cameron rejected that option in its entirety might come and bite him in the ass. Most Scots would have voted no for independence and yes for devo-max

Edit: I still think 'No' will win
 
SCOTTISH CELEBRITIES TAKE SIDES ON INDEPENDENCE
Associated Press

Scotland's independence battle is a tough one to call. The Yes side has James Bond, but the No campaign has Harry Potter.

Former 007 Sean Connery has long been a vocal Scottish nationalist - from his home in the Bahamas. Earlier this year he backed independence and the "core democratic value that the people of Scotland are the best guardians of their own future."

In the other corner stands J.K. Rowling, Edinburgh-based creator of the boy wizard. When she said independence might be "a historically bad mistake"- and backed it up with a million-pound ($1.6 million) donation to the No campaign - it sent a Dementor-like chill through the Yes camp.

Connery and Rowling are among many Scottish and Scotland-based stars making public interventions on independence ahead of Thursday's referendum - though experts say their influence on the outcome may be limited.

Pro-independence celebs include actor Gerard Butler, members of the band Franz Ferdinand and "Trainspotting" author Irvine Welsh, who has half-joked that "the Union is nature's way of stopping the Scots ruling the world."

Alan Cumming, who plays spin doctor Eli Gold on "The Good Wife," flew in from his Broadway run in "Cabaret" this week to hit the pro-independence campaign trail.

"It's an historic moment for us all. We now have a chance in this country to have our own destiny in our own hands," Cumming said.

Other stars have decided that Scotland and the rest of the U.K. are - in the words of the anti-independence campaign - "Better Together."

Singer Susan Boyle, who still lives in the Scottish village where she grew up, has said she plans to vote No, telling the Scottish Sun newspaper that "we have still been able to retain our proud identity whilst being a part of Britain."

Former Manchester United manager Alex Ferguson, Britain's most successful soccer coach, said Scots like him who live in in England "don't live in a foreign country; we are just in another part of the family of the U.K."

Sociologist Ellis Cashmore, author of the book "Celebrity Culture," said the opinions of celebrities would have a muted impact on the outcome of the vote, which polls suggest is too close to call.

"Celebrities are most effective in influencing people when the central issue is not prominent in voters' minds," he said, citing campaigns by U2's Bono and Coldplay's Chris Martin to raise awareness of famine and conflict in the developing world.

Cashmore said people in Scotland, and Britain at large, are already preoccupied with the independence issue, so celebrity interventions have little impact, and could even backfire.

"It's become like a pie-eating contest: the first few mouthfuls were tasty, but now we're getting sick of the number of celebs who are speaking on a subject we suspect they don't understand."

Beyond the A-list, the campaign has exposed a cultural divide between Scotland and the rest of Britain.

The idea of a new, energized nation, free from the shadow of bigger neighbor England, holds a strong appeal to artists, and independence has wide - though not unanimous - support from Scotland's creative community.

More than 1,300 Scottish writers, musicians and artists have signed a letter arguing that independence would unleash creative freedom. "We are voting Yes because we have imagined a better country," it says. "Now, we want to build it."

In wider British artistic and intellectual circles, patriotism has long been unfashionable. But the prospect of a breakup has awakened a dormant affection for the United Kingdom, the state made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

The "Let's Stay Together" campaign has recruited scores of stars, including Mick Jagger, Paul McCartney, Simon Cowell, Judi Dench, Helena Bonham Carter and Patrick Stewart to sign an open letter arguing that "what unites us is much greater than what divides us."

Their view was echoed by David Bowie - a New York-based Englishman - who sent a message to the Brit music awards earlier this year: "Scotland, please stay with us."

Amid the growing clamor, some of Scotland's best-known names have kept their opinion to themselves.

Tennis player Andy Murray and crime writer Ian Rankin have both declined to say which side they support.

"X-Men" actor James McAvoy has also said he will keep his vote to himself, though he challenged the rival Yes and No leaders, Alex Salmond and Alistair Darling, to take the Ice Bucket Challenge for charity. United for once, they both did.

---

Follow Jill Lawless on Twitter at Twitter.com/JillLawless


Source : Sapa-AP /avb
Date : 12 Sep 2014 10:33
 
This could set a interesting precedent. If Scotland can do it, so can Quebec, and even (gasp) Northern Ireland.
Not to mention that group in Venice that wants to break away from Italy.

Not to mention Catalan and the Basque (Spain is getting nervous). I understand that many American states are getting restless. This is mainly due to conflicts between State and Federal law. Wales? Ireland? Etc. These are not incompetent countries like South Sudan. The planet will be watching with interest.
 
FRESH POLL SHOWS SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE VOTE ON A KNIFE EDGE

An opinion poll published Friday showed next week's referendum on Scottish independence on a knife edge, with 52 per cent of people against ending the nation's 300-year-old union with the rest of the United Kingdom and 48 per cent in favour.

However, the poll of 1,300 people - conducted by YouGov for the Times and Sun newspapers - did appear to show that the pro-independence campaign's momentum has slowed.

The company's previous poll, published Sunday, had put the independence camp ahead for the first time, with 51 per cent of respondents in favour and 49 per cent supporting the union.

YouGov President Peter Kellner said the newest poll marked the first time the pro-union campaign gained ground since early August, attributing the change to campaigning by former Labour prime minister Gordon Brown, whose warnings that independence would be bad for jobs and family finances had "struck home."

The poll also comes in the wake of confirmation by several banks, including Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds, that they would move their headquarters to London in the event of independence. Several large retailers warned that Scottish shoppers would face higher prices.

Meanwhile, Nigel Farage, the leader of the anti-European Union UK Independence Party (UKIP), was also set to hit the campaign trail in Glasgow in support of the union.

He told BBC radio that Scottish independence would be "nothing of the kind" if it still belonged to the EU. "[Scottish First Minister Alex] Salmond wants Scotland to be part of the EU state. He wants his laws made in Brussels," he said.

The official Better Together campaign had urged Farage not to go to Scotland, fearing the controversial politician may alienate pro-union voters.

When the UKIP leader visited Edinburgh last year he had to escape an angry anti-racism protest by seeking refuge in a pub. He was later escorted away in a police van.

Almost 4.3 million people have registered to vote in Thursday's referendum. They will be asked the question, "Should Scotland be an independent country?"


Source : Sapa-dpa /avb
Date : 12 Sep 2014 10:59
 
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