Scottish Referendum on Independence

Should Scotland be an independent country?

  • Yes

    Votes: 59 53.2%

  • No

    Votes: 52 46.8%
  • Total voters
    111
  • Poll closed .
imranpanji said:
World wars fought together? Differences in foreign policy opinions? Too much selective history brought up by Wallyam Wallace and Rob Roy stories? Devolution bringing about a more Scottish identity?
Click to expand...

I'm all for independence but have no dislike of England at all, they are after all brothers to the Scots after many wars and much bloodshed. The sporting rivalry is a friendly one and we love getting one up on our neighbour. I have many English friends and love the country having lived there for a few years (my son was born there).

Maybe this sums it up nicely...

10583826_834462096593705_232407960333986123_n.jpg

EDIT: I got that from Facebook btw and was obviously written by an English guy.
 
Spizz said:
I'm all for independence but have no dislike of England at all, they are after all brothers to the Scots after many wars and much bloodshed. The sporting rivalry is a friendly one and we love getting one up on our neighbour. I have many English friends and love the country having lived there for a few years (my son was born there).

Maybe this sums it up nicely...

View attachment 147816

EDIT: I got that from Facebook btw and was obviously written by an English guy.
Click to expand...
I agree with you 100%, was just trying to figure out the 'old vs young' difference in opinion as pointed out by Arthur

That they have fought world side by side in a world war as brothers would be one of the larger reasons why the older citizens might be keen on keeping the union.

However as others have pointed out the Scots have tended to lean left, and have a dislike of the Tories who come off as pompous and have the tendency of talking down to them.
 
imranpanji said:
World wars fought together? Differences in foreign policy opinions? Too much selective history brought up by Wallyam Wallace and Rob Roy stories? Devolution bringing about a more Scottish identity?
Click to expand...

One word - "Braveheart" (the movie)
 
Spizz said:
I'm all for independence but have no dislike of England at all, they are after all brothers to the Scots after many wars and much bloodshed. The sporting rivalry is a friendly one and we love getting one up on our neighbour. I have many English friends and love the country having lived there for a few years (my son was born there).

Maybe this sums it up nicely...

View attachment 147816

EDIT: I got that from Facebook btw and was obviously written by an English guy.
Click to expand...

While I understand the sentiment (what is it with politics that attracts the wrong sort of people?), I fail to see how Scottish politicians are systematically different to their Westminster counterparts. There is a general disdain for politicians all around the world. If you're thinking Scottish politicians will be different to the rest of them, then you will be waiting until pigs fly.

Not that I'm totally against independence of course.

Right-leaning England vs left-leaning Scotland... game on :twisted:.
 
Chris said:
While I understand the sentiment (what is it with politics that attracts the wrong sort of people?), I fail to see how Scottish politicians are systematically different to their Westminster counterparts. There is a general disdain for politicians all around the world. If you're thinking Scottish politicians will be different to the rest of them, then you will be waiting until pigs fly.

Not that I'm totally against independence of course.

Right-leaning England vs left-leaning Scotland... game on :twisted:.
Click to expand...

Lol. No of course, pretty much all politicians are self serving arseholes. But it would be nice to elect our own self serving arseholes rather than the ones foisted on us by the English.

We have one Tory MP at the moment, usually it's none, so we have a Tory government we didn't vote for (again) and we've suffered terribly in the past for it with such things as the poll tax, bedroom tax, Trident parked up on the Clyde and food banks springing up all over.

Don't get me wrong, I like being British and it would be hard to let go of the Union, but we have our own unique set of circumstances (as all countries do) and simply put, the people of Scotland are the best people to decide what the people of Scotland need.
 
Some key questions answered if Scotland votes Yes:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/09/-sp-if-scotland-votes-for-independence-key-questions

Interesting that the analyst considers EU membership to be a forgone conclusion:

Would Scotland be in the EU?
Yes. Almost certainly. But it will not be as easy or as quick as Scotland’s first minister Alex Salmond and the yes camp say. The issue sits astride a legal conundrum. There is no provision in the EU treaties for a member state of the EU falling apart, with the breakaway part then joining the EU. Legal problems abound. Scotland will probably have to apply to join, says Brussels. That needs the agreement of the other 28. There will be humming and hawing in Spain, Belgium and other countries facing separatist challenges.

But in the end politics will trump legal niceties. It will be very difficult for Brussels to ignore a free, peaceful, democratic referendum outcome without looking anti-democratic. Besides, the entire body of EU law and regulation already applies in Scotland, so negotiations should be relatively smooth.

But there will be arguments over the UK rebate from the EU budget and over the euro single currency (all new members have to commit to join it). Membership needs to be ratified by the other 28 parliaments and the European parliament. Salmond claims it can all be done in 18 months. That looks like wishful thinking.
Click to expand...
 
Due to the large size of the government jobs and government pensions the older Scots will be very fearful of the split as its rocking their boat in a big way. Rather than having the very large and stable UK government paying their benefits and pensions the new and unproven Scottish adminstration will have to take over. Hence the old folk will naturally be weary of a big change in a time when they want stability. Its the young people who have less to lose and hence want to take a shot at having self government.
 
Chris said:
Some key questions answered if Scotland votes Yes:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/09/-sp-if-scotland-votes-for-independence-key-questions

Interesting that the analyst considers EU membership to be a forgone conclusion:
Click to expand...

I wonder if the UK will veto Scottish EU membership if Scotland refuse take on a share of the UK debt when Salmond eventually realises the UK is serious about not allowing a shared currency, as Salmond has already publicly threatened to do.

I believe the Spanish aren't thrilled about any precedent that could set because of the problems with the Basque region.
 
zippy said:
I wonder if the UK will veto Scottish EU membership if Scotland refuse take on a share of the UK debt when Salmond eventually realises the UK is serious about not allowing a shared currency, as Salmond has already publicly threatened to do.

I believe the Spanish aren't thrilled about any precedent that could set because of the problems with the Basque region.
Click to expand...

Not just the Basque region, but also the Catalan region as well from my understanding. Largely due to Barcelona being part of that region.

The French would also be unhappy in relation to the Basque issue, since the Basque region spans Spain and France.
 
New opinion poll shows independence momentum stalled:

The fight to save the United Kingdom has received a shot in the arms after a new opinion poll showed the Unionists in the lead and support for independence stalled.
A Survation survey of 1,000 Scots for the Daily Record found 47.6 per cent plan to vote No a week tomorrow with only 42.4 per cent backing separation.
When the 10 per cent of people still to make up their mind are removed, 53 per cent of Scots reject independence while 47 per cent want to break up the UK.
Significantly, this six-point difference is the same margin Survation recorded two months ago, suggesting a recent surge in support for separation has dissipated
Click to expand...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...poll-shows-independence-momentum-stalled.html

Maybe the Scottish are finally waking up to the fact that the SNP don't really have a plan regarding Scotland's future...
 
cr@zydude said:
The UK could only refuse a formal currency union, but couldn't stop Scotland from using the pound.
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That is kinda like Zimbabwe using the dollar, if you do not have control over your own currency then your fiscal policy means nothing. See the Eurozone for reference!
 
Chris said:
New opinion poll shows independence momentum stalled:



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...poll-shows-independence-momentum-stalled.html

Maybe the Scottish are finally waking up to the fact that the SNP don't really have a plan regarding Scotland's future...
Click to expand...
I use this link : http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/poll-tracker

Has all the polls on a timeline.

Interesting observation some have made though is that if Scotland remain, labour should win the next election by a few points. If not, labour will have to power share, or Tories power share with the likes of UKIP. Early days though.
 
Numerous high-profile names have added their vote to the much-publicised debate. Among those arguing for independence are Frankie Boyle, The Proclaimers, Alan Cumming, Billy Bragg, Sean Connery and Annie Lennox.

The list of those who want Scotland to stay within the union include JK Rowling, David Bowie, Eddie Izzard, Alex Ferguson, Mike Myers, Emma Thompson and Chris Hoy.



Emma Thompson? Is she Scottish?
 
Anyone in the mood to give me a tl;dr about the benefits/drawbacks of independence?

Some of the obvious drawbacks include them having to reapply to join the EU and NATO, and them having to basically set up all the necessary State machinery from scratch.
 
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