Scottish Referendum on Independence

Should Scotland be an independent country?

  • Yes

    Votes: 59 53.2%

  • No

    Votes: 52 46.8%
  • Total voters
    111
  • Poll closed .
OrbitalDawn said:
Hmm, some examples? Scandinavia doesn't generally have strong nationalist identities. At least not of the jingoistic kind. They didn't devolve into tribal or clan based conflict.

Maybe it helps if the country in general is struggling with development, poverty, under-education etc. But then, those kinds of societies are generally at risk of any kind of dangerous ideology, be it of the right or left ring variety.

I'd also add that we'd need to distinguish between a strong national identity and nationalism.
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I work with and go to Finland often and let me tell you they are very nationalistic. They fought hard for their independence of course and even it's not uncommon to see youngsters wear t-shirts with pictures of Finnish soldiers and the words 'thank you' underneath.

One of my best pals even bought new safety boots when his current brand were bought over by a Swedish company :)
 
Spizz said:
Huv ye goat yer carry oot in yet?
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Aye, I have, but a wise English woman who resides in my bedroom, told me not to be an eejit and hold off the bevvie until the late wee hours of friday , AS she does'nt want the neighbours complaining about loud bagpipe music in thOSE wee hours of the morn(LIKE LAST TIME).

it will be tough.... I am a very weak man!
 
Paul Hjul said:
then why have Labour cancelled the annual party conference and have gone into deep crisis mode
(You'll notice that I didn't say Labour wouldn't come to power - I said that they can't -- going forward, tbo I didn't realize any elections outcome would have changed)

It would definitely be the death of UKIP because UKIP's entire identity is premised on a united kingdom against Europe

Of course the contradiction in my argument is that part of the reason moving forward Labour will depend on Scottish MPs is because of the party dynamics playing out in England constituencies which would change in the absence of Scotland -> so there could be a rebalance towards a two-party structure again.
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UKIP used to be only about the EU, but they have some other bright ideas that they will put in their manifesto. As far as I am aware, they are the only party wanting to implement Swiss-style referenda in the UK. Also, they are seen (rightly or wrongly) as an anti-establishment party and as you can see, there lots of (deserved) contempt is being directed at Westminster. True conservatives are abandoning the Tories and working class Labour voters are abandoning Labour due to them being perceived as not much different from the Tories. IMO, they are here to stay.

Anyway, breaking up of the Union would help UKIP's cause to get out of the EU as the Scots are overwhelmingly pro EU and would not get a vote in an EU referendum (funny that they want independence from Westminster but happy to give it to the bureaucrats in Brussels).
 
Spizz said:
I work with and go to Finland often and let me tell you they are very nationalistic. They fought hard for their independence of course and even it's not uncommon to see youngsters wear t-shirts with pictures of Finnish soldiers and the words 'thank you' underneath.

One of my best pals even bought new safety boots when his current brand were bought over by a Swedish company :)
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Haha, interesting. The only interaction I've had with Fins was at a Halloween party at CERN. Very chilled and internationalist people. This one chick could chug beer like nobody's business. Said it's cos they don't have anything else to do there in winter, so they drink. :D

Finland isn't really Scandinavian, btw. :p
 
Chris said:
Or this one: Alone Scotland will go back to being a failed state.
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Lol. The poor old English media trying like bears. The reality for anyone who is in Scotland is completely different of course.

I grabbed this from fb earlier with this thread in mind. An exchange last night between two friends. Note the positivity and especially the comment on the media. Oh, and excuse my shaky hand.

uploadfromtaptalk1411022266341.jpg
 
Andy Murray just tweeted this
Huge day for Scotland today! no campaign negativity last few days totally swayed my view on it. excited to see the outcome. lets do this!
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Looks like a lot of people have been swayed by the "No vote" negativity..
 
Cray said:
Andy Murray just tweeted this


Looks like a lot of people have been swayed by the "No vote" negativity..
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Just look at this thread.

But well done Andy, you're not a bad lad for a Hobo (Hibs fan) :D
 
Chris said:
Or this one: Alone Scotland will go back to being a failed state.
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The telegraph and daily mail are so clearly supportive of the most campaign and are the epitomy of the fear mongering that we have been talking about this entire thread.

I mean just look at the front page of the daily mail ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html ) or the telegraph and their bias is clear to see. Even an apology to Scotland in the mail editorial yesterday was actually an arrogant English FU actually.

But continue to post those, as doomsday articles based entirely on speculation with no evidence actually highlights our points better
 
OrbitalDawn said:
Haha, interesting. The only interaction I've had with Fins was at a Halloween party at CERN. Very chilled and internationalist people. This one chick could chug beer like nobody's business. Said it's cos they don't have anything else to do there in winter, so they drink. :D

Finland isn't really Scandinavian, btw. :p
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Am going for a couple of days next week. Hopefully it's still above zero and yes, I can vouch for the drinking :p
 
So if a commentator thinks there will be a negative effect, it is just negativity? How else could you put yourself across if you felt independence was bad for Scotland? :confused:
 
I think that there are a fair number of folk that were no voters, but due to the bungling scaremongering tactics and the arrogance of certain Westminister politicians, a number might have crossed over....

/A Sober Moose bursts into song, "Don't let me cross over!" :whistle:
 
Anyway, I still think the No campaign will win it, and all those promises made by the 3 stooges will have a price.
 
Mortymoose said:
I think that there are a fair number of folk that were no voters, but due to the bungling scaremongering tactics and the arrogance of certain Westminister politicians, a number might have crossed over....

/A Sober Moose bursts into song, "Don't let me cross over!" :whistle:
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And I'm sure there are a fair number of 'Yes' voters who will actually vote no on account of the various bullying tactics employed by some Yes voters :p
 
Chris said:
Anyway, breaking up of the Union would help UKIP's cause to get out of the EU as the Scots are overwhelmingly pro EU and would not get a vote in an EU referendum (funny that they want independence from Westminster but happy to give it to the bureaucrats in Brussels).
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Not really no, Brussels has for a long time been a stick of measure of Westminister's attitude towards Scotland - if the bureaucrats in Brussels are presented as evil why should we tolerate those at Whitehall?

If Cameron or Blair had conceded Scottish sovereignty in dealing with the EU rather than plithy devolution of non-core state functions we wouldn't have had a problem [a slightly longer post on this is on its way]
 
SPizz, another auld classic for you....Remeber my dad having this, listened to it often when I was but a youngster!

[video=youtube;xY1P_80YnVo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY1P_80YnVo[/video]
 
Counterpoint from a Reddit user, raises some interesting points

I'm voting no; for various reasons. A post I found on Facebook "Better Together Campaign" sums it up nicely:

This is not about "The English" and "The Scots".

How much oil is left? 15bn. .20bn. .50 bn barrels? Frankly it doesn't matter. At some point in time it will run out and then as a country based in no small part on oil income we would be down a hole. The UK has a more diverse economy to be able to cope when that day comes.

How about our currency? So we go it alone with our current bank notes pegged to Sterling. We walk away from the UK Sovereign debt and have no central bank. Sounds good until you realise that entry to EU requires a central bank and that on day 1 of independence some hot shot currency speculator launches a run on the Scottish Pound and our economy goes down the pan. Think about what happened on Black Wednesday and the ERM to see what transpires.

Cuts to the Scottish NHS arguments are smoking mirrors because just like "free child care", these are matters already devolved to the Scottish Government. You want free child care?..tell your MSP to get it sorted now. It doesn't need independence and neither does protecting the Scottish NHS require it either.

Get the Government we vote for? Ermm, I don't think so. At the last Scottish Paliamentary elections the majority of votes cast were not for the SNP. But you know those of us who didn't vote SNP accept the result because that's how democracy works. How about Glasgow going independent from Scotland because it didn't vote SNP....laughable, but the logical conclusion if you follow the "we get the Government we vote for" argument.

The proposed Scottish defence force has scant mention of sustainable naval forces for a country with a large offdhore oil fishery dependency. And no mention of search and rescue capability for our stormy winter weather and mountains.

People need to wake up and get off the platform of bashing "The English" and think about the reality of what could happen rather than looking through rose tinted glasses and fingers crossed promises that rely on a what would then be a foreign country acquiescing to our demands.
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POLLS OPEN IN SCOTTISH INDEPENDENCE VOTE

Polling booths opened on Thursday in Scotland's historic referendum on independence, with record numbers expected to cast their vote on whether to stay or leave the United Kingdom.

Voting will continue until 2100 GMT and the results are likely to emerge in the early hours of Friday.


Source : Sapa-AFP /gm
Date : 18 Sep 2014 08:24
 
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