Sign a warning letter?

Pitbull said:
I'll be the turd in the drinking water here...

All this drama about a warning letter? Should have just signed it and got on with life :o
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Until the next one comes along... Some places stipulate that you be fired after a number of warning letters..
 
MickeyD said:
It all revolves around the instruction... as I believe that the swearing bit was not on this meeting's agenda.

Were you made aware of the meeting?
Were you made aware that you had to prepare a presentation for the meeting?

Is all.
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That's what he said - the instruction.

But the warning centers on an email and not reading an email. Therefore, when she said no email was sent; that should (in my eyes) be the end.

Other employees in the presentation know that she said she would send a note - but who'll stand up to her? It's BS - should be a simple case of no email received with any instruction. To refer to a presentation the month earlier to cover tracks is BS.
 
Pitbull said:
Should have just signed it and got on with life :o
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\

That's the thing - it's building up a case to get rid of me by saying look how many issues we've had ; he's a troublesome employee! Hence, appealing it
 
Dolby said:
It didn't go well ; as mentioned, SEESA isn't quite fair - but :

1) GM apologied she could not make it
2) The new HR lady - GMs best friend - was a witness the this appeal
3) The original witness that I requested, but was now 'representing the company' [SEESA did make a note that she was the witness initially and I was unaware till I stepped in'
4) That witness lied about certain instances outright
6) She did, however, mention I did not swear AT the GM but rather AT the situation
7) I pointed out the incorrect charge if that was a case (insubordination vs insolence), but SEEMA said they can be similar (wtf?) but it wasn't a charge anyhow.

He said he'll get back to us within 48 hours. I brought up my options going forward and he said CCMA is one, but not recommended. I guess all I can do is wait

Also said an instruction if an instruction, whether she put mail and it was verbal - it stands? Not at all what I've read, even factual cases from CCMA say the charge must be exact
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Very fishy, and no a charge (as far as I'm aware) cannot be similar, it must be exact.

Was this new HR lady a party to the incident btw? Or is she totally new?
 
Dolby said:
That's what he said - the instruction.

But the warning centers on an email and not reading an email. Therefore, when she said no email was sent; that should (in my eyes) be the end.

Other employees in the presentation know that she said she would send a note - but who'll stand up to her? It's BS - should be a simple case of no email received with any instruction. To refer to a presentation the month earlier to cover tracks is BS.
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And that is the crux of your case, which should be sufficient for it to be in your favour.

If she did not give you the instruction then she has no case.
 
Totally new and best friends with GM ; family holidays etc - but all for all intents and purposes she's new.

I've read actually CCMA cases and they give 2 months because something simple like a time/date wasn't on the warning letter - even if the guy was totally wrong. If a warning letter there is invalid because of a time/date, something like an email/verbal should be as well.

As well as being forced to sign, no opportunity to speak my side etc ( he didn't even blink when I said that)
 
MickeyD said:
And that is the crux of your case, which should be sufficient for it to be in your favour.

If she did not give you the instruction then she has no case.
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Dolby, correct me if I'm wrong but from my understanding - they are now saying the instruction was given verbally.
 
Wall said:
Dolby, correct me if I'm wrong but from my understanding - they are now saying the instruction was given verbally.
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If they are, then the original "charge" is totally invalid... and the GM needs to be disciplined for lying.
 
Dolby said:
As well as being forced to sign, no opportunity to speak my side etc ( he didn't even blink when I said that)
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You don't have to sign it. It can be handed to you in front of a witness. Have a look at their copy - it will have a note on it saying something like "handed to X in front of witness Y on this date."

The appeal meeting you had today was your way of objecting to the warning. In many cases it is not required to have a meeting before handing out a warning letter.
 
Wall said:
Dolby, correct me if I'm wrong but from my understanding - they are now saying the instruction was given verbally.
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100% accurate.

They say the manner it was instructed is irrelevant, but I've seen cases where the omission of a date/time have caused issues on the warning letter.
 
Dolby said:
100% accurate.

They say the manner it was instructed is irrelevant, but I've seen cases where the omission of a date/time have caused issues on the warning letter.
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The gave you a warning letter with a very specific charge relating to email.. therefore the manner is entirely relevant and it is also hard and fast proof that the GM lied which should (in most companies) be a dismissable offence.
 
MickeyD said:
You don't have to sign it. It can be handed to you in front of a witness. Have a look at their copy - it will have a note on it saying something like "handed to X in front of witness Y on this date."
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She made me sign ... 'you will sign' even after I refused because there was no email. I now know the witness should simply write down that you refused, but this option was never given.

But this is the part that I was referring, rather than a full investigation :

http://www.labourguide.co.za/warnings

It is emphasized that a written warning should only be issued after having followed a fair procedure, whereby the accused has been afforded the opportunity to present his case in answer to the charges against him. A written warning must contain all the elements previously mentioned

Same site has

A warning must contain
*the identity of both parties
*the nature of, date of and time of the offense
*the terms of the warning and validity period
*clear statement of what action is required of the guilty party to rectify the situation
*clear statement of the consequences of the guilty party's failure to take heed of the requirements of *the warning or of repeated offenses (of similar or other misconduct)

Aside from being forced, the bolded part is incorrect
 
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that new hr lady is making ***. she is trouble. was she brought in just for this? if they good friends I wouldn't rule it out. too damn convenient.
 
The GM that instigated this whole situation seems to be really ducking and diving, making sure she can't be present etc. What can be read from that behaviour, it's revealing some kind of weakness on their part that they are trying to hide?
 
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