Software pirate caught in sting operation

[killadoob]

I don't need your hdd bud.

So according to you, recording on pvr is also piracy? you are downloading the broadcast.

 

[Moklet Kcuf]

I don't need your hdd bud.

Ok that's fine, you have hypothetically resisted temptation, well done. But, you are now officially in denial about your justification to download copyrighted material. That's a FAIL I'm afraid.

So according to you, recording on pvr is also piracy? you are downloading the broadcast.

No, this issue has already been made clear and described in detail. Your are paying DSTV for rights to that service.

 

[porchrat]

My point was never about putting it on dvd, i was told you cannot get the media off the pvr so pvr is fine but avi's are not, i just pointed out you can easily get the media off a pvr so i do not uinderstand why we can save the files on our pvr but cannot download the avi's.

As has already been pointed out to you, yes you CAN, but no you may not. There is a big difference, you'll realise that if the police every kick your door down.

It seems flawed to me.

This is why I ask how old you are because you seem to lack the ability to comprehend what we are all saying to you.

portch is saying you cannot watch the series on any other media but the broadcast because we only pay for the broadcast but why are we allowed to record it on pvr if that is the case?

Because Multichoice does not provide a way for you to remove it from the PVR decoder and you can only access that stored content for as long as you pay your subscription, it is a service that you have a right to.

I'm going to go ahead and use guns in an analogy (even though there are only a few similarities and I do concede this so please don't flame me to death , but I think in principle it highlights the point well). A gun shop can sell you a gun provided you have a license etc. that does not mean that you have the right to run around killing people. By the same token an electronics company can sell you a DVD writer, but that does not mean that you have the right to copy someone elses property. I agree, one is a criminal offence and the other is a civil matter, but the analogy still works in a broad way.

Because Multichoice don't provide you with a direct way of extracting the information they are not doing anything wrong.

You are the one who started the idea of DSTV subscriptions as a justification for piracy. Personally I can understand why people pirate. The prices media companies charge for series etc. on DVD is outrageous, but please don't tell me that using a PVR recorder and illegally copying it to a DVD via a DVD writer is justified because you pay a DSTV subscription, that is lunacy.

 

[<moLe>]

I'm just wondering...how could this guys meager bussiness be off any interest to "BIG sydicates"...I mean you want to tell me that the coccain traffickers all over the world are dependant on a chap trying to score money for his next binge session?....bollocks

 

[killadoob]

I am not saying it is justified and i fully understand your argument, i just think if you can download a series onto a pvr you can download the series onto your pc.

I sadly cannot watch every minute of dstv and i sometimes work until 9 at night, does that mean for instance i should miss out on the series on dstv even though i pay my monthly subscription?

again i am debating piracy or the rights and wrongs of it i am just wondering if for instance shows that i pay dstv for i do not have the means to always watch them, then by downloading them i would be considered a pirate even though i just do not have time to watch them?

To me that does not sound right, for instance i also do not have 4k to drop on a pvr/hd decoder. So for me even though i pirate and could not care less, if someone who is against piracy is in my situation i feel they may not think they are pirates by downloading and watching shows they pay dstv for but cannot watch.

Anyways i see we are not getting anywhere here so let's call it a day

 

[Moklet Kcuf]

To me that does not sound right

Yes, maybe discuss it in a new thread, we have got your point, and we have given ours

 

[Lucas Buck]

When I saw the headline 'pirate caught in sting operation' I thought that it had something to do with a pirating syndicate. The headline is pure sensationalism. How is setting an example of this student doing the public a service. Why not go after pirating software, games movies syndicates if the police are so serious about this kind of offence (clue to the dumb ass police...go to any flea market you can workout the rest from there).
Maybe more time should be spent fighting the real criminals like, vodacom, telkom, software companies, etc for exploiting us the public with their exploitive pricing practices.

 

[porchrat]

I am not saying it is justified and i fully understand your argument, i just think if you can download a series onto a pvr you can download the series onto your pc.

Then you have not understood the argument.

I sadly cannot watch every minute of dstv and i sometimes work until 9 at night, does that mean for instance i should miss out on the series on dstv even though i pay my monthly subscription?

Yes, actually. It does. That is the reason PVR exists. If you can't afford PVR then tough luck.

again i am debating piracy or the rights and wrongs of it i am just wondering if for instance shows that i pay dstv for i do not have the means to always watch them, then by downloading them i would be considered a pirate even though i just do not have time to watch them?

To me that does not sound right, for instance i also do not have 4k to drop on a pvr/hd decoder. So for me even though i pirate and could not care less, if someone who is against piracy is in my situation i feel they may not think they are pirates by downloading and watching shows they pay dstv for but cannot watch.

Again I will say this, but it is the last time. You don't pay a DSTV subscription for the shows you pay it for access to the broadcast stream. You are still missing the point. You do not own the shows, therefore you have no right to a copy of it. There is really nothing else to understand.

By all means pirate, but communicate your reasons for doing it properly.

 

[Kosmik]

When I saw the headline 'pirate caught in sting operation' I thought that it had something to do with a pirating syndicate. The headline is pure sensationalism. How is setting an example of this student doing the public a service. Why not go after pirating software, games movies syndicates if the police are so serious about this kind of offence (clue to the dumb ass police...go to any flea market you can workout the rest from there).
Maybe more time should be spent fighting the real criminals like, vodacom, telkom, software companies, etc for exploiting us the public with their exploitive pricing practices.

You know, if he provided the same service with a basic Linux distro he would have been fine. Or offer academic software prices if possible. He could have done it legally and he didn't have to do it the way he did. Hell, he could have sold the equipment and the OS is the problem of the user. I used to do similar when I was studying and made decent money but I treated it strictly as either hardware only, or the person hands me the original with key or they pay for the software.

 

[bullfrog]

Doesn't the pvr decoder record the shows to a hdd in the machine? If so, you can surely still watch it even if you cancel your subscription to dstv?

Wasn't all of this covered in big lawsuits when VHS came out?

As for paying for the stream, surely by that argument you have no right to RECORD it with your pvr decoder or a video machine? Which the law said it was fine ages ago.

porchrat you have lost your own plot as pvr records the shows to a hdd. Video machines record to a tape and these are legal too. By your reasoning you aren't allowed to record it with pvr or video tapes.

Again I will say this, but it is the last time. You don't pay a DSTV subscription for the shows you pay it for access to the broadcast stream.

 

[Kosmik]

porchrat you have lost your own plot as pvr records the shows to a hdd. Video machines record to a tape and these are legal too. By your reasoning you aren't allowed to record it with pvr or video tapes.

His reasoning is correct. By law what we do everyday with our vcr/pvr/dvr's is illegal. You could say it just shows how screwed the laws really are

 

[porchrat]

Doesn't the pvr decoder record the shows to a hdd in the machine? If so, you can surely still watch it even if you cancel your subscription to dstv?

Wasn't all of this covered in big lawsuits when VHS came out?

As for paying for the stream, surely by that argument you have no right to RECORD it with your pvr decoder or a video machine? Which the law said it was fine ages ago.

porchrat you have lost your own plot as pvr records the shows to a hdd. Video machines record to a tape and these are legal too. By your reasoning you aren't allowed to record it with pvr or video tapes.

AFAIK you can't run the decoder without an activated smartcard, therefore cannot access that stored programming without a subscription. Unless of course you rip open the decoder, extract the harddrive, plug it into your machine thereby bypassing the systems put in place to prevent you from doing that. However now we have reached the "you're actually not allowed to do that, but yes I agree you CAN do that" territory again.

Also BTW recording broadcasts onto a VHS tape is not legal unless you have the right to make a copy of that content (either purchased the rights or that the owners of the content have relinquished ownership or expressly given consent for anyone to copy it) or you own that content. As an example if I recall correctly you are allowed to copy any original BBC programming because they relinquish all rights to it.

His reasoning is correct. By law what we do everyday with our vcr/pvr/dvr's is illegal. You could say it just shows how screwed the laws really are

Yup I agree, it is completely stupid, but it is, as Kosmik says, it is the law.

Personally I have no problem with piracy, go ahead and pirate all you want, that doesn't mean that I believe it is legal. "Legal" and "right" are two completely different things. If you are going to pirate though then just be honest about why you do it and don't attempt to justify it with some sort of convoluted argument. Content today is just too expensive to justify purchasing it legitimately.

 

[DarthCat]

I download episodes because I dont have access to dstv

 

[killadoob]

LOL darth don't worry man many people do it, believe me the shows producers are not complaining either because they know the more people who watch the more audience they have and the more demand there will be for companies like dstv to broadcast and buy it from them.

I also never heard of anyone being arrested for using vhs to tape their fav programs so why would a dvd recorder be any different?

 

[porchrat]

I also never heard of anyone being arrested for using vhs to tape their fav programs so why would a dvd recorder be any different?

Just because you haven't heard of anyone being arrested for it doesn't mean it isn't against the law. If you're so confident that it isn't against the law go ahead and contact the intellectual property holders and present them with all your VHS tapes, DVDs and HDDs, then tell them how you procured the content contained thereon.

If you don't get arrested or involved in a serious civil suit I will retract my statements

As I said before though, paying for this stuff is a rip-off. There is no way the industry can justify the price. I looked around and from what I've seen people are paying R2000 and up for complete series and that is just insane. I understand why people pirate. As far as I'm concerned the media companies are the real pirates.

 

[killadoob]

Media companies are the pirates without a doubt, i was just arguing this point.

Simply charge to much and people will download it , stick that in your pipe and smoke you media bastids

 

[Arthur]

... Content today is just too expensive to justify purchasing it legitimately.

And the more people steal the more legitimate paying users have to pay. There's a threshold at which it's just not worthwhile doing anything really new or innovative because the returns just aren't worth the risk. Over time, piracy increases the price of the product.

Want ever-crappier movies, software, music, etc? Pirate away!

Other little-considered deleterious effects (the main ones are obvious):
- It squeezes out small independent producers (other than amateurs)
- thereby entrenching giant media conglomerates
- and drives the trend to mega and state-owned media (who can afford a high revenue attrition rate and who often have other agendas)
- the entire media distribution channel becomes revenue-constricted, further driving out indy's
- the media giants get cosy with Caesar and get him to pass ever more restrictive laws and enforce 'media rights management' technologies
- what Caesar doesn't expropriate for bread and circuses he makes illegal
- Eventually Atlas shrugs
- Soon the pincers emerge, and the web closes over freedom.

Ever wonder why only the Free World with clear IP protection regimes developed usable software? There are some brilliant Russian programmers (gestated in the old Soviet military-industrial complex), but please name an East European or CIS software developer who didn't flee to the West as soon as he could that's made an impact anywhere.

I find it astonishing that so few people realise that undermining IP property rights will kill the goose that lays the golden egg. It all rests ultimately on respect for private property. So many people blithely copy forth and mumble a few incoherent rationalisations for their own petty crimes. A few are brazen and even proud, feeling they're part of the New Wave, a Revolution even. They most certainly are. But not in the way they think. When private property rights are undermined, ignored or destroyed, it doesn't take long for the snarl and jackboot to emerge. After a bleary dreary gray drabness, things go black.

 

[killadoob]

Arthur actually bud the more we pirate the less you pay.

Do you think pc games would still be 300-350 bucks if piracy was not so heavy? You would be paying console pricing.

 

[Arthur]

Arthur actually bud the more we pirate the less you pay.

Do you think pc games would still be 300-350 bucks if piracy was not so heavy? You would be paying console pricing.

Killa, you are dead 100% wrong on that, sorry mate.

Prices have come down because hundreds perhaps even thousands of new players entered the market, making it intensely competitive. Yes, the giants (like id) quickly cherry-picked and labelled the best, and thousands of independent game developers now do contract and project work in the industry. Why? Because there's money to me made. When the revenues disappear (as they do with large-scale piracy), so will the developers and the innovators. And we'll get back to old Atari console pricing for cartridge games. This is the Law of Gravity, and there's no escape.

 

[porchrat]

And the more people steal the more legitimate paying users have to pay. There's a threshold at which it's just not worthwhile doing anything really new or innovative because the returns just aren't worth the risk. Over time, piracy increases the price of the product.

Want ever-crappier movies, software, music, etc? Pirate away!

OMG say it ain't so!...you don't think..."Coyote Ugly2: Uglier"?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! Please media companies, I'm sorry! Here, take my money! You don't even need to give me anything for it, just promise me you won't release that movie!!!

Other little-considered deleterious effects (the main ones are obvious):
- It squeezes out small independent producers (other than amateurs)
- thereby entrenching giant media conglomerates
- and drives the trend to mega and state-owned media (who can afford a high revenue attrition rate and who often have other agendas)
- the entire media distribution channel becomes revenue-constricted, further driving out indy's
- the media giants get cosy with Caesar and get him to pass ever more restrictive laws and enforce 'media rights management' technologies
- what Caesar doesn't expropriate for bread and circuses he makes illegal
- Eventually Atlas shrugs
- Soon the pincers emerge, and the web closes over freedom.

Ever wonder why only the Free World with clear IP protection regimes developed usable software? There are some brilliant Russian programmers (gestated in the old Soviet military-industrial complex), but please name an East European or CIS software developer who didn't flee to the West as soon as he could that's made an impact anywhere.

I find it astonishing that so few people realise that undermining IP property rights will kill the goose that lays the golden egg. It all rests ultimately on respect for private property. So many people blithely copy forth and mumble a few incoherent rationalisations for their own petty crimes. A few are brazen and even proud, feeling they're part of the New Wave, a Revolution even. They most certainly are. But not in the way they think. When private property rights are undermined, ignored or destroyed, it doesn't take long for the snarl and jackboot to emerge. After a bleary dreary gray drabness, things go black.

You mean if I pirate long enough eventually all that will be left will be the really terrible stuff?!? Like Rihanna (spelling?) and that chick that sang "all the single ladies"?

That would not be a good move. Surely not even the pirates want that stuff? It isn't worth the bandwidth.