SWC in SA a "BIG MISTAKE"!

[BBSA]

There has been talk of setting up a watch programme and I'll be first in line to do my part, again.

And while you doing your patrols the people here on MyBB runs a mock

 

[Alan]

Alan there is nothing we can do man, as you and i pointed out the fundamentals need to be sorted out before anything can be done. You need to stop crime not prevent it and as you say while the tourists will get protection the citizens of this country get nothing but a big F you and you sort out the crime.

and when they do they themselves get thrown in jail for breaking the law.

Here? There's surprisingly little to do actually because the community already cares.

Apart from the SAPS branch there is a local security company that responds to calls from anyone, clients or not so we support them. We keep an eye on our neighbours houses because its what neighbours do. If someone looks out of place we let them know people are watching.

There has been talk of setting up a watch programme and I'll be first in line to do my part, again.

How fortunate you are to live in a comparatively peaceful neighborhood( how much did it cost you to live there I wonder). Unfortunately the vast majority of South Africans aren't so lucky. I guess the communities there don't care :erm:. I'm pretty sure your posse of concerned citizens wouldn't stand a chance against a bunch a heavily armed bandits that others have to deal with. If only they too lived in your little bubble they would also be swept away in a wave of optimism.

 

[LancelotSA]

It is interesting that the constant moaners seem to automatically assume that they obviously live in far more dangerous areas than those who are optimistic!! I live in Pinetown. I travel all over Natal for work. My GF works in New Germany. Both those areas are regarded as high crime areas as far as I am aware! So where is that argument now about living in a "bubble" or "peaceful neighbourhood"? And I'm sure my place costs less than yours!!!!

 

[bwana]

How fortunate you are to live in a comparatively peaceful neighborhood( how much did it cost you to live there I wonder). Unfortunately the vast majority of South Africans aren't so lucky. I'm pretty sure your posse of concerned citizens wouldn't stand a chance against a bunch a heavily armed bandits that others have to deal with. If only they too lived in your little bubble they would also be swept away in a wave of optimism.

Property and houses were pretty cheap - which is why we moved here.

Sure, I've lived in worse places than I do now and the community has made a difference every time. Hide behind whatever excuse you feel suits you best but understand your attitude is part of the problem.

 

[killadoob]

Tongue cheek lance

 

[Palimino]

bwana

Out of curiosity just how far are you willing to let the government go to fight crime? Happy to be subjected to spot searches? Have all your phone calls monitored? How about a curfew to make sure you're tucked up safe and sound at night while the army patrols the streets and just shoot people on sight?

Bwahahahaha! “Happy to be subjected to spot searches? Have all your phone calls monitored?” From a blundering mob who can’t tie their own shoelaces? It’s not going to happen, although not through lack of wanting that degree of control and intimidation. They might be happy to “shoot people on sight”, however.

 

[Alan]

Property and houses were pretty cheap - which is why we moved here.

Sure, I've lived in worse places than I do now and the community has made a difference every time. Hide behind whatever excuse you feel suits you best but understand your attitude is part of the problem.

Seems more likely the problem is your inability to comprehend the situation from your insulated little bubble. I'm exposed to both worlds. On one hand your affluent suburban individuals who live there pampered lives believing the answer to our problems is a positive attitude, free and easy lets have a jol mentality.

On the other hand I'm exposed the harsh realities faced by the majority of people in this country. Perhaps you should step into this world. See the numerous brazen crimes committed, the corruption of the police force, the maligned honest cops who face these problems everyday in a thankless task, government corruption, judicial incompetence etc. To you this is an excuse to hide behind but to others it's their reality.

But you advocate citizens doing something about this. But what exactly. I'm all ears.

Your method of hosting a football tournament and being positive about it being part the cure is rubbish IMO. As far as I'm concerned the WC as it currently stands is just a rubber stamp of tolerance and acceptability of the current mess the country is in. Can't be unacceptably bad if you reward those responsible with the rights to host the world cup.

The WC should have been used as an instrument to pressure the government to step into line. Reasonable targets should have been set for them to meet regarding crime, poverty alleviation and corruption. I don't see what is so negative and problematic with that attitude of accountability. Perhaps you believe the government can't reach those targets and just want the WC regardless, who cares about those things.

Anyway I've said my bit and wouldn't wanna burst that bubble of yours.

 

[killadoob]

Damn alan you are on fire today!!!!!!!!!!

Cannot wait to see lance and bwana's response to that post .

 

[bwana]

Anyway I've said my bit and wouldn't wanna burst that bubble of yours.

I'm an editorial photographer - do you think I do that from home, insulated in a bubble?

 

[Alan]

Damn alan you are on fire today!!!!!!!!!!

You'd be too if you had to deal with the BS I see everyday. At this moment disabled employees are probably going to lose their jobs thanks to racial discrimination. None of them of white anyway but they're "collateral damage".The criminals on the street's will benefit most. This kind of crap is country wide and yet we're supposed to keep a positive attitude about it all.

I'm an editorial photographer - do you think I do that from home, insulated in a bubble?

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. It's one thing to have that attitude when not exposed to the rot, it's quite another to still have that attitude when you're exposed it.

Still I don't think you fully comprehend the problem. I see in operation many functions of the state. From the crime committed in the street( literally caught on CCTV) all the way to the judgment handed down by the courts. That includes local government management of law enforcement and dealings with private security firms. I'm sure if you were exposed to it too you'd have a change of attitude yourself.

 

[LancelotSA]

I'm an editorial photographer - do you think I do that from home, insulated in a bubble?

To quote another member :

Cannot wait to see Killa and Alan's response to that post

Of course our Alan is the only one who has hands on dealings with what goes on in this country. The rest of us are ignorant/oblivious....

 

[killadoob]

You must be ignorant and oblivious to think tourists should not be warned of the dangers of visiting SA.

 

[Alan]

To quote another member :



Of course our Alan is the only one who has hands on dealings with what goes on in this country. The rest of us are ignorant/oblivious....

Very few who are "hands on" share your views. The fundamental problem is there is no accountability and your proposed solution to the problem doesn't include addressing this.

You should watch the Penn & Teller: Bull**** episode on the World Peace. The answer to every problem is not a positive attitude and let's all sing kumbaya you seem to think it is.

 

[noxibox]

Citizens do have a role to play.
Where do you think criminals live? They live amongst us (draw energy from us). They are our neighbours, they use safe houses in our midst! They rent that upmarket apartment next to yours with the meth labs and what not.

Here I am driving halfway across town to get drugs and now you tell me the guy next door has them.

 

[LancelotSA]

You must be ignorant and oblivious to think tourists should not be warned of the dangers of visiting SA.

...less than a 0.03% chance of something happening. Yip, you're right tell them all to stay away. AND AGAIN, no one argued about informing them of the dangers. The stupidity comes from those telling them to stay away and spreading negative propaganda.

But even in saying that, these individuals are fully capable of doing research on the country they are going to visit by themselves! Ask the embassy, check out websites offering advice on the situation in a country. So you think all foreigners are babies that need spoon feeding? Nice! When I travel I check out exactly where I am going and what conditions are like.

 

[LazyLion]

So you think all foreigners are babies that need spoon feeding?

Actually, yes I do. Those coming from the USA, England, France and Australia are coming from countries where they are spoon fed, indoctrinated and oblivious about life in the rest of the world. They really have no clue of what they are in for.

 

[Alan]

Actually, yes I do. Those coming from the USA, England, France and Australia are coming from countries where they are spoon fed, indoctrinated and oblivious about life in the rest of the world. They really have no clue of what they are in for.

Well they need to take responsibility for their own actions. It's up to us to make available an objective account of this country's ills and it's up to them to find it and to a make an informed decision based on it.

I have no problem with tourists coming here for the WC or at any other time as long they've had the full facts made available to them so they if they do decide to come they take the necessary precautions.

 

[LancelotSA]

Now aren't these very interesting articles (which will of course be dismissed by the "negative ones")

39 crime incidents during Confederations Cup 2009
Tuesday, 30 June 2009 18:26

According to Deputy Commissioner Pruis, approximately 600 000 people attended the sixteen matches (during Confederations Cup 2009)

"During this period, only 39 cases of criminal conduct were reported, which could be directly linked to a stadium or the immediate vicinity of a stadium while people were entering or exiting or going back to their hotel rooms," he said.

He said the majority of cases recorded during the Confederations Cup were theft, especially of cell phones, with five robberies, mugging of wallets, one case of reckless driving, two more of corruption, one incident of using counterfeit money and one case of assault.

2003 Cricket World Cup and Crime
Sunday, 22 June 2008 14:09

A report was compiled after the 2003 Cricket World Cup. I quote: "Foreigners were generally very satisfied with the event and South Africa. Crime reported was at insignificant levels. 3% of visitors experienced an incident of crime whilst here. However, 99% of visitors (94% of those affected) said they would return again. Overall, safety and security - which were the foreigners' number one concern before they arrived here - showed the biggest improvement in rating from before to after the event." 99% of the visitors to the World Cup also said they will recommend South Africa to other people (Source).

Compare above-mentioned with, for example, Australia: According to the Australian Institute for Criminology, just over 2% of tourists were victims of crime in Australia in 2005 - Despite that, 94% of overseas people regard Australia as a safe travel destination! The Institute also mentioned that 158 Australian tourists were killed in foreign countries between 1995 and 2003 at a rate of 5.8 per million. Not a single Australian was killed in South Africa during that time. 93 027 tourists from Australia and New Zealand visited South Africa in 2004 alone (Source)

The scale of the cricket world cup is however a lot smaller than the expected scale of the 2010 soccer world cup. More information regarding the scale of the cricket world cup will follow soon.

 

[daveza]

You must be ignorant and oblivious to think tourists should not be warned of the dangers of visiting SA.

I quite agree.

Warn them of the dangers, but also tell them if they take the right precautions the chances of being a victim are much the same as where they come from.

I've lived in Cape Town for 50 years, and apart from theft from a vehicle have fortunately lived a crime-free existence. I don't walk the foreshore in the evenings, I lock doors while driving, I am aware of who is doing what at traffic lights, I avoid high risk areas etc etc.

Read the papers or the web - random pointless crime is rife in the UK as it is in the USA.

It would help though if FIFA didn't suggest that tourists find a shebeen to spend an evening at in order to experience the local lifestyle.....

 

[Ricard]

I quite agree.

Warn them of the dangers, but also tell them if they take the right precautions the chances of being a victim are much the same as where they come from.

I've lived in Cape Town for 50 years, and apart from theft from a vehicle have fortunately lived a crime-free existence. I don't walk the foreshore in the evenings, I lock doors while driving, I am aware of who is doing what at traffic lights, I avoid high risk areas etc etc.

Read the papers or the web - random pointless crime is rife in the UK as it is in the USA.

It would help though if FIFA didn't suggest that tourists find a shebeen to spend an evening at in order to experience the local lifestyle.....

*Ahem* - Foreigners DONT lock their doors while driving, Foreigners DONT stay indoors at night, foreigners DONT know where all the dodgy areas are, foreigners DONT keep awareness at traffic lights, foreigners DONT keep situational awareness while walking the streets (very evident when many people outside of SA walk with headphones and MP3 players blasting)

I am not defending anything here... I just think that tourists should be EDUCATED, otherwise they WILL BECOME fodder for theives. Their lack of SA savvy will be very evident. If the SA tourist board says 'Stay away from high risk areas' without identifying WHERE THEY ARE, then its counter-productive... but if the high risk areas are identified, then the tourism board are admitting there is a problem - which they wont want to do.