The Battery Thread (Solar / Inverter)

[JamesBoy]

Ah? How old are they?

If they aren’t fully charged when you utilise them again for lodshedding you decrease their capacity and you never get it back. Happened to me.

They're around a year old now - 100Ah, I've not checked the specs/manufacturer of the batteries yet, was an inverter setup ordered from geewiz in May last year.

Typically with the 4.5 hour load shedding sessions the inverter would fire up it's fans (after the power came back on) and keep going for several hours before finally switching off (typically before the next load shedding session). These days it started the fan session but then quickly got quiet after around half an hour or so but then also started to beep every second or so complaining that the batteries were too load (error code 4 I think).

I was just menioning the default settings because these have a cut-off voltage of 21 volts which appears to be way too low (around 25% instead of the recommended 50%) but at the same time I have no idea how to get them to charge correctly.

I'm guessing after I've changed it to to user that I'd need to alter the bulk charge voltage, the float voltage and the cut-off but what do I change them to?

 

[wingnut771]

Don't worry if you don't know but what settings would you recommend for when using a 24V system with 2 AGM batteries?

I've been using the default settings but recently with these 2.5 hour sessions I've found that the batteries don't appear to re-charge fully because now we're getting an alarm to switch it off after just under an hour while pulling a load of around 300W during that time where before we could use it for over four and a half hours before the power came back on.

I would look at getting 2 Hubble s-100 batteries instead of replacing with new lead acids. You can then run them flat with no issue. 24V times 100Ah lead acid gave you 2400Wh but can only use half.

With the hubbles you have the same 2400Wh but you can use all of it, so effectively the same as 4 LA batteries. Still use user settings as lithium shouldn't be floated apparently, so float charge should be disabled in some way.

 

[wingnut771]

They're around a year old now - 100Ah, I've not checked the specs/manufacturer of the batteries yet, was an inverter setup ordered from geewiz in May last year.

Typically with the 4.5 hour load shedding sessions the inverter would fire up it's fans (after the power came back on) and keep going for several hours before finally switching off (typically before the next load shedding session). These days it started the fan session but then quickly got quiet after around half an hour or so but then also started to beep every second or so complaining that the batteries were too load (error code 4 I think).

I was just menioning the default settings because these have a cut-off voltage of 21 volts which appears to be way too low (around 25% instead of the recommended 50%) but at the same time I have no idea how to get them to charge correctly.

I'm guessing after I've changed it to to user that I'd need to alter the bulk charge voltage, the float voltage and the cut-off but what do I change them to?

If feel it's too late, the batteries are fubar. 21V is worse than 25%, more like 0-10%.
Times 2 for 24V:

 

[AlphaJohn]

I finally found it... Bloody Mercer 200 ah Lithium spec sheet:




500 less cycles than Hubble's Lithium. Actually not half bad for the price, and will work with Mercer "Trolley" Inverter.

 

[JamesBoy]

If feel it's too late, the batteries are fubar. 21V is worse than 25%, more like 0-10%.
Times 2 for 24V:
View attachment 1038426

Thanks for the info, pity this wasn't already set appropriately instead of getting a leaflet to tell me that I need to run the inverter down every few months until it started beeping (probably effectively killing the batteries sooner).

Will check out the hubbles as replacements.

 

[wingnut771]

I finally found it... Bloody Mercer 200 ah Lithium spec sheet:

View attachment 1038428


500 less cycles than Hubble's Lithium. Actually not half bad for the price, and will work with Mercer "Trolley" Inverter.

Any lithium battery will work with the trolley. The only issue is the charge profile is for LA so won't go to 14.6V so you won't get full capacity, probably 80%, which is actually a good thing, will make the battery last longer.

 

[AlphaJohn]

Any lithium battery will work with the trolley. The only issue is the charge profile is for LA so won't go to 14.6V so you won't get full capacity, probably 80%, which is actually a good thing, will make the battery last longer.

The others I have looked at ask for 50A charge rates, only this one, Vision and Hubble I found so far that is ok with 20A.

I dont know enough about Litium to know what lower rates does to the set-up, but TY.

 

[wingnut771]

The others I have looked at ask for 50A charge rates, only this one, Vision and Hubble I found so far that is ok with 20A.

I dont know enough about Litium to know what lower rates does to the set-up, but TY.

Not an issue using lower charge rates, the voltage is more important, most of the action happens above 14V.

 

[Herr der Verboten]

Have you tested how much your standard fridge/freezer pulls at startup? Mine goes slightly above 1000W. If that system is 12V, 1000W will be 83A, which won't be good for a single battery, that's why most inverter manufacturers recommend a minimum amount of AH, my 12V 2000W pure sine wave recommends 400Ah.

I'm just trying to workout a good solution without any knowledge for the following

2x pcs and their screens (maxing out at 480watt each)
1x 55" qled tv + nvidia shield tv (probably about 150 watt combined, I should just measure it)
1x refrigerator max pull just over 1kv on startup

I could have a separate dyi box for the pcs and tv; then the refrigerator on its own. I'm not sure if the pcs would need 48vdc as 2x 108ahs should be enough for them to run at least 8 hours (haven't done the exact math here) and finally the refrigerator on it's own 2kva and also 2 batteries. Then at a later stage I could hook that up to panels and so on.

Otherwise everything from one box, and one set of panels with a switch (not sure what is the correct name here) which will switch off eskom when it's on solar or the solar when it is on eskom.

I am just not sure that that solar box at 8k without the batteries is the smartway to go or even cost effective. I don't have 150k zar now to spend for the full blown setup so it would have be added together as I go along.

 

[Neuk_]

I spoke to another supplier who has the same batteries, just rebranded. They shouldn’t be making those noises so now have changed the request for exchange to one that is for a refund

The lack of support from sosolar.co.za is shocking.

That is not great news, more so the lack of support, I would have suggested Enertec but @RedViking has decided they don't last.

 

[AlphaJohn]

I'm just trying to workout a good solution without any knowledge for the following

2x pcs and their screens (maxing out at 480watt each)
1x 55" qled tv + nvidia shield tv (probably about 150 watt combined, I should just measure it)
1x refrigerator max pull just over 1kv on startup

I could have a separate dyi box for the pcs and tv; then the refrigerator on its own. I'm not sure if the pcs would need 48vdc as 2x 108ahs should be enough for them to run at least 8 hours (haven't done the exact math here) and finally the refrigerator on it's own 2kva and also 2 batteries. Then at a later stage I could hook that up to panels and so on.

Otherwise everything from one box, and one set of panels with a switch (not sure what is the correct name here) which will switch off eskom when it's on solar or the solar when it is on eskom.

I am just not sure that that solar box at 8k without the batteries is the smartway to go or even cost effective. I don't have 150k zar now to spend for the full blown setup so it would have be added together as I go along.

Ups, Inverters and Powerbank :: Inverters With Batteries :: MECER HYBRID 5kVA / 5kW Inverter Charger 4 x200Ah Batteries

Please note - an additional charge of R1200 shipping applies owing to the weight of the battery MECER HYBRID 5000VA / 5000W Inverter Charger 4 000W MPPT 220V 48V DC PF1 Pure sine wave inverter 4 x Vision 200Ah 12V AGM Sealed Batteries 5000VA / 5000W Built-in 4000W MPPT solar charge controller Solar

pclinkshop.co.za

/me runs and hides from flameware about to erupt

 

[maumau]

I spoke to another supplier who has the same batteries, just rebranded. They shouldn’t be making those noises so now have changed the request for exchange to one that is for a refund

The lack of support from sosolar.co.za is shocking.

How to kill your business

 

[Dimpie (JIGSAW)]

Thanks for the info, pity this wasn't already set appropriately instead of getting a leaflet to tell me that I need to run the inverter down every few months until it started beeping (probably effectively killing the batteries sooner).

Will check out the hubbles as replacements.

If feel it's too late, the batteries are fubar. 21V is worse than 25%, more like 0-10%.
Times 2 for 24V:

Most inverters have it at 21V (10.5V) as that is the "under load" cut-off voltage ... If you measure the batteries after that cutoff, you'll more than like find that they're still sitting at ±12 / 24V ... Well that's what I've read on a few other forums already.

 

[AlphaJohn]

Most inverters have it at 21V (10.5V) as that is the "under load" cut-off voltage ... If you measure the batteries after that cutoff, you'll more than like find that they're still sitting at ±12 / 24V ... Well that's what I've read on a few other forums already.

Sounds plausible, but I suspect that depends on the size of the load. I only see a 0.8 jump when I turn my load off. Also don't run my Inverter to full capacity.

 

[Dimpie (JIGSAW)]

Yes, dependent on load size ... the bigger the load, the quicker it gets to the cut-off, but when you remove that big load the larger the jump is

 

[AlphaJohn]

Yes, dependent on load size ... the bigger the load, the quicker it gets to the cut-off, but when you remove that big load the larger the jump is

In that case my setup 21 + 0.8 = perm damage territory. Suspect many others have the same problem.

 

[wingnut771]

Most inverters have it at 21V (10.5V) as that is the "under load" cut-off voltage ... If you measure the batteries after that cutoff, you'll more than like find that they're still sitting at ±12 / 24V ... Well that's what I've read on a few other forums already.

As @AlphaJohn said, depends on the size of the load. A very light load won't have much of a voltage drop.

 

[AlphaJohn]

As @AlphaJohn said, depends on the size of the load. A very light load won't have much of a voltage drop.

I'll just keep doing what I am, keep eye on system and watch my usage like a hawk till I get my Lithium batteries. Then that 10-20% level, well anything bellow 50% actually, wont bother me as much.

Still sad for man in the street....

 

[johnjm]

They're around a year old now - 100Ah, I've not checked the specs/manufacturer of the batteries yet, was an inverter setup ordered from geewiz in May last year.

Typically with the 4.5 hour load shedding sessions the inverter would fire up it's fans (after the power came back on) and keep going for several hours before finally switching off (typically before the next load shedding session). These days it started the fan session but then quickly got quiet after around half an hour or so but then also started to beep every second or so complaining that the batteries were too load (error code 4 I think).

I was just menioning the default settings because these have a cut-off voltage of 21 volts which appears to be way too low (around 25% instead of the recommended 50%) but at the same time I have no idea how to get them to charge correctly.

I'm guessing after I've changed it to to user that I'd need to alter the bulk charge voltage, the float voltage and the cut-off but what do I change them to?

100Ah for 4.5 hours isn’t enough. You have discharged them too much, combined with the lack of a full charge for the next cycle, and those volts... you basically discharged to zero which has ruined them.

 

[johnjm]

That is not great news, more so the lack of support, I would have suggested Enertec but @RedViking has decided they don't last.

I’m gonna get the same ones from the other supplier tomorrow morning probably. Tempted to get Ritar again but really don’t want more than two batteries in series to avoid parallel runs too.

Have disconnected the batteries in the meantime as takealot is picking them up tomorrow