Ok Let me first start off by answering this statement of yours :
"Just winning an odd game of arena here and there and AFK'ing in AV (try afk'ing in WSG/EOTS/AB btw, u need those marks too) will not get you the gear in anything less than three months. Easy? How much gear would n raider have obtained in that time? "
Ok you WILL get a medal even if you loose, so you don't need to win. So if you need 20 medals.. you play 20 games. (granted if you win you need to do less games). 20 games... hmmm one afternoon max. Hard ? Not at all.
PVE - you need to actually kill the boss for a item. What do you get if you dont kill a boss ? A nice fat repair bill. Still seem fair ? Hardly, a PVP'er will get his gear, even if he looses. Still think its an accomplishment ?
Now lets say you kill kael, vashj or whatever... and you are lucky enough to get a token for your tiered item... now, you actually share that token with 3 other classes... so if you have a 25 man raid, you need to work it out with 5/6 other people who gets it. Surely DKP becomes a factor then, you bid your DKP on the item, DKP which might have taken you up to 20 raids to get to that certain point, which you bid ALL away to ensure you get that drop. Tommorow something else drops that you want... guess what, you dont have any DKP left, so you must play numerous nights away obtaining DKP again, so that you have something to bid with. I still say, ANY n00b can get PVP epic's. Its not hard, not hard at all. We are not even talking about the time it takes to master a boss encounter like Vashj / Kael which takes up to 2/3 weeks to get one kill. Certain bosses you never master, as there is just too many variables that can go wrong, hence most guilds tend to NOT do bosses like Vashj + Kael over and over.
Sorry, but I still say the old high warlords earned their gear the hard way, and I can honestly say, I was never able to reach it, it was just too hard. Even if you made it to warlord status, to reach high warlord level's you needed to group up with other top PVP'ers.
All in all, the game changed a lot... in the old days, if you saw people running around orgri with epic's it was a "drool" factor, nowdays everyone has epic's... hardly an accomplishment anymore...
"Ok you WILL get a medal even if you loose, so you don't need to win. So if you need 20 medals.. you play 20 games. (granted if you win you need to do less games). 20 games... hmmm one afternoon max. Hard ? Not at all. "
20 lost games at 15 minutes a game is 5 hours played. Losing WSG gives 0 honor, unless you manage a flag capture here and there. Ab loss can bag you a bit of honor, but not much. Same for EOTS. Simply standing around doing nothing and losing BG games is a HUGE time sink, even worse than raiding and not killing a boss. Anyone who does this is indeed a noob, and he will get his S1 gear when the skilled PVP'ers are in S4 gear. GG.
The fact that you need to kill a boss to get his loot, despite being obvious, is a task than can be done if your guild is half-way decent. If you struggle to kill bosses and have to repair all the time, well, I guess you are in the wrong guild then -.-
The timing is all relevant, like I said:
Skilled PVE = Quicker gear progression (not guaranteed)
Skilled PVP = Quicker gear progression (guaranteed)
Noob PVE = No gear progression (not guaranteed)
Noob PVP = Slow gear progression (guaranteed)
The variable in PVE is overall guild skill, so if you down bosses each attempt = Fastest gear progression. So the better you raid, the less time it takes to get gear. You also get access to the next tier of epics before the PVP'ers, due to arena seasons starting later than new raiding gear comes out. This is the benefit of raiding. If your guild sucks and you don't get the gear you want fast enough, thats just tough.
In PVP, your skill also determines the rate at which you gain new gear. The better you play, the faster you get access to good gear. The benefit for the casual player is that you can still obtain the gear you want gradually, albeit slower than the hardcore players. Casual does not mean noob in this case. Idiots might get gear eventually, but will have to wait way longer to get it.
The whole DKP shlep is something raiders deal with and are used to. Its like gambling and I'm not a gambler. It doesn't make things harder, its just more up to chance than anything else if you get what you want when you want it. Some ppl obviously like this.
"Sorry, but I still say the old high warlords earned their gear the hard way, and I can honestly say, I was never able to reach it, it was just too hard. Even if you made it to warlord status, to reach high warlord level's you needed to group up with other top PVP'ers. "
Exactly, I have way more respect for a person who reached Warlord on his own than a farmer who reached High Warlord with other farmers. That title means nothing to me, it doesn't tell you anything about the skill of that player, only that he was willing to waste an insane amount of time farming honor. That is why Blizzard introduced Arena's, to be a true reflection of a player's PVP skill .
The game has evened out if that is what you are referring to, its not only the elite raiders who have epics now. And that is how it should be.
), running into mobs was never a good thing
