What I hate about bar encounters: Not only do woman expect me to make the first move, when I do I have to "dazzle" them, I have to prove myself, after she says, sure join us, then starts the trail, you have to interesting, funny and all that nonsense, based on those initial 60 seconds you are assessed, quite frankly when I go out I want to enjoy myself, sure meeting someone can be fun, but on the other hand being rejected sucks and just avoiding the whole exercise mean I'll enjoy my night (I always enjoy the night out with friends).
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Question of the Day: At what point do you sell your car?
What is wrong with men these days?
- Thread starter Serqet
- Start date
depending on how desperate the women are for attention, i dont really see that working unless you're basically brad pitt or something.
sure, you can strike up a nice little chat for a bit but unless you pull out something damn interesting you're not going to get more than a "umm, we're going to the bathroom" when they leave.
didnt really read the rest of the thread but 3 quick points:
1) women in groups larger than 3 intimidate the crap out of guys. most of us have no idea how to open a biggish group and it also creates the impression that you're having a girl's night, which most guys fear.
2) guys are crap scared of rejection, especially when their buddies are there or if it's a place they frequent. simple as that.
3) guys are pretty oblivious to approach invitations. yes, we might make eye contact and yes you might smile at us, but most guys wont click unless you make it blatantly obvious.
oh, and guys find it easier to try approach girls later on when they're feeling a bit more festive - so lets say after 11 maybe...
Peon
Expert Member
I agree 100% with smooth_criminal and werner. Every single girl ive approached has rejected me, this excludes girls who've approached me. But most of these were in relationships already so I turned down. The point stands. Guys cannot approach girls, the hurt and pain of rejection is too much to bear.
Then there is all this crap that whatever a guy does, everyone judges him to be gay. This makes alot of guys insecure, and in a way 'avoid trouble'. Then some girls are graduates from the 'Gold digger academy' and will assinate anyone they deem not able to feed their spending habits. Also I believe girls read too much bull**** magazines and apply templates to guys, if it doesnt match, assasinate!
This is my opinion, and its biased, and its full of resentment. So in my opinion serqet, spread the world in lady land that rejection comes back to you. Looks like you got an invoice for it tonight though.
Then there is all this crap that whatever a guy does, everyone judges him to be gay. This makes alot of guys insecure, and in a way 'avoid trouble'. Then some girls are graduates from the 'Gold digger academy' and will assinate anyone they deem not able to feed their spending habits. Also I believe girls read too much bull**** magazines and apply templates to guys, if it doesnt match, assasinate!
This is my opinion, and its biased, and its full of resentment. So in my opinion serqet, spread the world in lady land that rejection comes back to you. Looks like you got an invoice for it tonight though.
It may also be a case of what kind of place you were trying to attract a potential single male? There are places and there are places?
In some cases a bunch of woman may be just needing a secure place to go where they can sit and chat with friends and family and not be harassed. Although this may be the less likely place to find someone the chances are that if someone does pop up such a person might be of a higher calibre, a gentleman perhaps.
Then there are places which might be a bit more of a meat market. This is not the place to meet people for a relationship unless that is what you are looking for, but perhaps a place to unwind and simply enjoy yourself, act like a tease, maybe take a few dances with someone and simply act out our natural animalistic desires.
A woman wants to be championed by a male. This is the natural instinct in the wild and once the female has sought out someone that might resemble her alpha male, instinct may kick in and if a relationship develops from this point it will be quite passionate between 6 months and 3 years. Thereafter the female may look elsewhere for a new champion. It is at this stage that the male needs to distance himself ever so slightly from the female to re-attract her attention and so the continuous cycle of attraction plays itself out.
Of course we are human with intelligence and should be able to determine the difference between what is from the animal kingdom and what we should or should not be doing in our relationships.
And just when you think you have got it figured out, you might have to start right back at the beginning as you determine that in actual fact men simply will never understand a female and vice versa as for all intense and purposes Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus and you should read that book. Not read it myself, one day I will.
What I do sense is that males and females are reassessing the values that Society has thrust upon us in the sense of our religious and moral values when it comes to marriage and relationships.
One could quite easily say that woman are far more emotional than men and while this is true in many aspects of life woman are, but there is one fundamental difference in that a man can fall in love once, twice or three times in his life whereas a woman has the potential to fall in and out love every two weeks and I do not mean that woman will ever act out that in real life and are not sluts, but one has to often look back at the animal kingdom for reference. It will take our own intelligence to make the comparison and either act thereon or not.
In some cases a bunch of woman may be just needing a secure place to go where they can sit and chat with friends and family and not be harassed. Although this may be the less likely place to find someone the chances are that if someone does pop up such a person might be of a higher calibre, a gentleman perhaps.
Then there are places which might be a bit more of a meat market. This is not the place to meet people for a relationship unless that is what you are looking for, but perhaps a place to unwind and simply enjoy yourself, act like a tease, maybe take a few dances with someone and simply act out our natural animalistic desires.
A woman wants to be championed by a male. This is the natural instinct in the wild and once the female has sought out someone that might resemble her alpha male, instinct may kick in and if a relationship develops from this point it will be quite passionate between 6 months and 3 years. Thereafter the female may look elsewhere for a new champion. It is at this stage that the male needs to distance himself ever so slightly from the female to re-attract her attention and so the continuous cycle of attraction plays itself out.
Of course we are human with intelligence and should be able to determine the difference between what is from the animal kingdom and what we should or should not be doing in our relationships.
And just when you think you have got it figured out, you might have to start right back at the beginning as you determine that in actual fact men simply will never understand a female and vice versa as for all intense and purposes Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus and you should read that book. Not read it myself, one day I will.
What I do sense is that males and females are reassessing the values that Society has thrust upon us in the sense of our religious and moral values when it comes to marriage and relationships.
One could quite easily say that woman are far more emotional than men and while this is true in many aspects of life woman are, but there is one fundamental difference in that a man can fall in love once, twice or three times in his life whereas a woman has the potential to fall in and out love every two weeks and I do not mean that woman will ever act out that in real life and are not sluts, but one has to often look back at the animal kingdom for reference. It will take our own intelligence to make the comparison and either act thereon or not.
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a3dm86
Well-Known Member
I think this thread belongs in the "relationships" one.
Empiricism Philosopher
Expert Member
What do you want in your guy? I wanted stuff in my women, changed over time... *the thing is love and friendship is all I want hey the whole sex thing is over rated, I want a girl that does not want sex at all, just to hold me and spend time with me. I KNOW THIS IS WEIRD. The thing is I use to be a guy that went for girl for only one thing, friendship that turned into love or sex. Now having both I had more than once. The thing is you never know if you and the other person will be happy for life.
smokey
Honorary Master
Could be that too yea AdLo! Gosh i feel old
A HA! You're the 30 y/o! Now we know... mwahahahahaha.
Seriously though... I don't believe that no one here questioned the fact that Serqet came home before 10PM... I mean... I really don't know what the scene is like in Joburg, but I don't even bother getting ready before 10. This would be fine if you were... Oh... 12-15, but dammit... you come home at that time and complain... most people are just getting into gear that time in most places I've been.
Drunkard #1
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Smokey, you're right. I saw 9:44 and just assumed AM. Seemed like an appropriate time to wake up on a Saturday after a night out. Being home at 9:44 PM doesn't even count as a night out.
But, ignoring that, what incentive is there for a guy to leave his friends and introduce himself. Sitting with his friends his got beer and decent conversation (about beer, cars, hot birds, fishing, chainsaws, etc.). Leaving his buddies, the best case scenario results in less beer, boring conversation (about shoe sales and her minimum wage job), being used for dancing (which most guys don't find entertaining) and a very small chance of getting laid. The choice is easy.
What women are looking for in a man doesn't exist in the wild. Guys that have what you're looking for (witty conversation, funny, make you feel smart, fashion sense, etc.) either already have boyfriends or are players. The rest of us are not boring, sad people, but it's going to take more effort from your side to get to know us. But that isn't what women choose. They choose the players who's carefully staged act makes their target feel wanted (and horny). The rest of us don't waste our time after we realise this.
Don't ask me where people meet each other; I don't know. And yes, I know my negative attitude doesn't help, but the positive attitude I had years ago didn't get me any further, so I gave up on that approach.
But, ignoring that, what incentive is there for a guy to leave his friends and introduce himself. Sitting with his friends his got beer and decent conversation (about beer, cars, hot birds, fishing, chainsaws, etc.). Leaving his buddies, the best case scenario results in less beer, boring conversation (about shoe sales and her minimum wage job), being used for dancing (which most guys don't find entertaining) and a very small chance of getting laid. The choice is easy.
What women are looking for in a man doesn't exist in the wild. Guys that have what you're looking for (witty conversation, funny, make you feel smart, fashion sense, etc.) either already have boyfriends or are players. The rest of us are not boring, sad people, but it's going to take more effort from your side to get to know us. But that isn't what women choose. They choose the players who's carefully staged act makes their target feel wanted (and horny). The rest of us don't waste our time after we realise this.
Don't ask me where people meet each other; I don't know. And yes, I know my negative attitude doesn't help, but the positive attitude I had years ago didn't get me any further, so I gave up on that approach.
Ou grote
Honorary Master
We need to keep it real.
We do not drink pink drinks etc etc.
We do not drink pink drinks etc etc.
smokey
Honorary Master
gripen
Expert Member
Usually it would be through friends, family or mutual acquaintances but this avenue seems to have dried up. My problem is I don't drink or smoke and thus can't really handle the pub/bar/club environment. I prefer other types of activities so am in a bit of a pickle as to where to meet appropriate girls (I'm sure I'm not the only one). Ation Netball seems like an option
I've tried the online dating thing, but what you say is true, it is riddled with players.. and there are so many of them that girls don't give the nice guys the time of day. As a nice guy, I'm starting to feel like a need to become an a$$ to become attractive. The Ladder Theory also comes to mind..
I'm going to give speed dating a try, but it seems people are a bit apprehensive of this so the events keep getting postponed. I'm assuming the ladies are afraid to give it a try. Serget, maybe send your crew to one of the events
(I'm referring to www.smartdate.co.za). I'm not sure of the other groups but the 20-29 events need people! I must say though, fear of rejection (approach anxiety) is a b1tch. No matter how little you have to lose, it still comes up and ruins the whole experience and turns you into a bumbling fool. Suppose I need more practice but they say it never goes away
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Sadly, trying to meet decent men at bars in my opinion is pretty difficult. The "nice, decent" men usually aren't going to pick women up in a bar. You could possibly try the known meat markets such as Billy's and Molly's, however, the saying you get what you pay for really does apply. A lot of men i've met in places like those are after 1 thing only. On the rare occasion we've joined groups at Keg and places like that which turned out nicely, but like I said it's pretty rare. You also need to take into account luck. There are so many people with ulterior motives that the place you choose, the night you choose etc really comes into play. Nice way to meet guys is through friends. Arrange evenings out and let your friends know to invite others, guys usually rock up with other guys. If they are already in your "group" that night, it's a lot easier to get conversation going. Who knows, your friends soulmates might just be a friend away 
Kilgore_Trout_Redux
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As someone who knows a lot about rejection allow me to say that it can wear you down but it shouldn't. You need to adapt your behaviour until you start getting interest. The idea is to treat it like a game. Improving yourself is vital. Go to gym, learn how to dress and get a decent haircut.
I got pretty good at singling out girls who were seperated from the group. Groups of women are too difficult to approach.
I got pretty good at singling out girls who were seperated from the group. Groups of women are too difficult to approach.
it doesnt go away, but you do get very desensitized after a while.
and practice doesnt improve your game if you've got a crap swing... that'll just improve your crap swing and demotivate you.
there's a crapload of info about how to get over approach anxiety on the net, and even more on how to become an attractive person without being an ass.
but to start off, if you want to get over approach anxiety - start by just saying hi to 5 people a day. just walk past them, smile, say hi and walk on. you'll see that they'll 99% of the time smile and say hi back. and then you'll see that girls arent that scary...
it shouldnt be hard.
after opening you just keep the whole group engaged in the conversation... if you're talking you should make eye contact with each one, if one seems to be bored, ask her a question. the easiest way to get them talking is asking how they know each other and taking the ques from there ("oh, you met at yoga class? i've been thinking of going but i've only seen old ladies there
")improving your appearance will help to a little extent.
you walk up to the group and they think "oh, he's well dressed. i like his hair" then you open your mouth "oh hell, he's insecure. he's boring. he's not funny. i think im going to get him to buy me a drink and then bail out"
you need to improve your inner self to get good.
take up interesting hobbies, work on self confidence, work on conversational skills... it'll all improve your mindset, which improves your perceived attractiveness.
Agreed with Picard. I don't enjoy striking up random conversations. I only like meeting people via "networking". Friends of Friends or people in shared community space for whatever particular event I may be taking part in at the time.
The other concepts don't intrigue me that much.
Kilgore_Trout_Redux
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it shouldnt be hard.
after opening you just keep the whole group engaged in the conversation... if you're talking you should make eye contact with each one, if one seems to be bored, ask her a question. the easiest way to get them talking is asking how they know each other and taking the ques from there ("oh, you met at yoga class? i've been thinking of going but i've only seen old ladies there
improving your appearance will help to a little extent.
you walk up to the group and they think "oh, he's well dressed. i like his hair" then you open your mouth "oh hell, he's insecure. he's boring. he's not funny. i think im going to get him to buy me a drink and then bail out"
you need to improve your inner self to get good.
take up interesting hobbies, work on self confidence, work on conversational skills... it'll all improve your mindset, which improves your perceived attractiveness.
I'm married now so this is all academic now. By improving your appearance you are going to have more confidence.
As for the group thing, I just learned that there was always one cow with attitude who would think she was cool shooting me down in front of her friends. As I say - I was no Cassanova back in the day.