Why should I vote ANC?

JustAsk said:
If the shoe fits...the general feeling here is all black people in decent jobs are bee,all bee are useless.I can go on and on,so what's your problem now.

Me and my type just happen to be not white.
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Making more outrageous statements without any proof. Please keep those opinions to yourself if you can't back it up.

Unfortunately the reverse is also true, those PDIs that get jobs because of their skill might also doubt their ability and wonder whether they're "affirmative" appointments - this is unfair on those deserving people.
 
JustAsk said:
If the shoe fits...the general feeling here is all black people in decent jobs are bee,all bee are useless.I can go on and on,so what's your problem now.

Me and my type just happen to be not white.
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I disagree with that statement. You may be right that some people see BEE in that pigeon hole but i know many a south african who doesn't. So that is not the general feeling here. It's a feeling adopted by a few individuals. I believe in BEE as i have stated in a previous thread. We need to right the wrongs of the past or we cannot move on in the future and i'm all for people who didn't stand a chance of getting that job before now having a chance to get it. But we do need a better education system in place to ensure that we don't have to depend on BEE as a crutch. Eventually we are all going to have to learn to walk on our own in the years to come.

You make an interesting point when you compare black vs white. It seems to me that the elections are a colour race and not a political race. I'm speaking in general now and thsi is not directed at you when i say... i thought we were suppose to vote for the party that appealed to our moral beliefs and values. Instead everyone seems to just vote for the guy with the matching skin colour. It is very disheartening.
 
grayston said:
Criticism is one of the cornerstones of multi-party democracies. You know this.

It seems you have no reason to vote ANC, just plenty of reasons not to vote for other parties.

So why are you voting for COPE?

No, wait. I don't want to get sidetracked here. You still haven't answered the question.

What reasons are there for voting ANC?
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Why Anc,now why cope?

I don't feel a need to explain myself and my decisions to anybody.I couldn't care less for who you vote,seems you care more about my choice.I won't waiste my time here with people that is clearly part of the one sided view,the thread of sipho springs to mind.There is some big differences between me and white people that don't see the need for aa/ee,which means,we simply don't belong in the same party.
 
JustAsk said:
Why Anc,now why cope?

I don't feel a need to explain myself and my decisions to anybody.I couldn't care less for who you vote,seems you care more about my choice.I won't waiste my time here with people that is clearly part of the one sided view,the thread of sipho springs to mind.There is some big differences between me and white people that don't see the need for aa/ee,which means,we simply don't belong in the same party.
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Or as you said the same country!
 
timgaul said:
Unfortunately the reverse is also true, those PDIs that get jobs because of their skill might also doubt their ability and wonder whether they're "affirmative" appointments - this is unfair on those deserving people.
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I hear what you saying timgaul but how else are we suppose to right the wrong? It is a policy that is trying to balance the scales as it was just as unfair back in apartheid when someone from a township for instance was refused a job because they were black. Everyone is always so quick to put it down and knock it yet nobody is offering solutions as to what we should do to improve the situation.
 
Serqet said:
I hear what you saying timgaul but how else are we suppose to right the wrong? It is a policy that is trying to balance the scales as it was just as unfair back in apartheid when someone from a township for instance was refused a job because they were black. Everyone is always so quick to put it down and knock it yet nobody is offering solutions as to what we should do to improve the situation.
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So for the next 25-100 years the ANC will be correcting the wrongs of the past by denying innocent young people the right of decent employ/bussiness based on their skin colour? How can the small amount of remaining male whites pose such a threat to the majority blacks/coloureds/woman/disabled, etc? (unless that is a fear or real fact) While this country is booming/growing there is enought for all. But young people are been denied their basic constitutional rights based on their skin colour and heritage.
 
Serqet said:
I hear what you saying timgaul but how else are we suppose to right the wrong? It is a policy that is trying to balance the scales as it was just as unfair back in apartheid when someone from a township for instance was refused a job because they were black. Everyone is always so quick to put it down and knock it yet nobody is offering solutions as to what we should do to improve the situation.
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Equal education eventually resulting in best-man-for-job scenario which will ultimately reflect the country's diversity.

This country, and indeed this continent, is not willing to build a future - they want everything now. This is not going to work in the long run and we need to build up a decent groundwork for the future.

Had this been the plan from 1994 within the next five years we should be seeing the workforce reflecting these changes. Unfortunately I doubt this is not going to be the case as too much emphasis has been put on AA/BEE and not enough on breeding a generation of equal opportunity/education individuals.
 
Serqet said:
I disagree with that statement. You may be right that some people see BEE in that pigeon hole but i know many a south african who doesn't. So that is not the general feeling here. It's a feeling adopted by a few individuals. I believe in BEE as i have stated in a previous thread. We need to right the wrongs of the past or we cannot move on in the future and i'm all for people who didn't stand a chance of getting that job before now having a chance to get it. But we do need a better education system in place to ensure that we don't have to depend on BEE as a crutch. Eventually we are all going to have to learn to walk on our own in the years to come.

You make an interesting point when you compare black vs white. It seems to me that the elections are a colour race and not a political race. I'm speaking in general now and thsi is not directed at you when i say... i thought we were suppose to vote for the party that appealed to our moral beliefs and values. Instead everyone seems to just vote for the guy with the matching skin colour. It is very disheartening.
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Maybe not majority,but yes i would say general,as these people make the most noise here.

I agree with the voting.It will be like that for a long time.

This is the type of discussion that i'd like to have.We can disagree but still be respectful to each other.It started well till Penquin,tim and the likes came here,derail everything and throwing some insults around.

This thread is going in circles now,so i'm out.
 
So how do we go about fixing the problem so that everyone has the equal opportunity? Do you feel that the balance has shifted and we should just abholish it? Because i certainly don't. I'm quite certain that if BEE/AA wasn't in place there would be a lot of black/indian/coloured people without jobs because certain white people who are still very much racist wouldn't hire them simply because they are black/indian/coloured. They would opt for their 'own kind.' We still live in a society where we mistrust anyone who isn't considered 'one of us' It is onlly when we change this idiotic mindset that we will be free of BEE/AA. And before people start jumping to conclusions. I realise racism works both ways. So let's just get over it already and move on. We are all South Africans.
 
Serqet said:
So how do we go about fixing the problem so that everyone has the equal opportunity? Do you feel that the balance has shifted and we should just abholish it? Because i certainly don't. I'm quite certain that if BEE/AA wasn't in place there would be a lot of black/indian/coloured people without jobs because certain white people who are still very much racist wouldn't hire them simply because they are black/indian/coloured. They would opt for their 'own kind.' We still live in a society where we mistrust anyone who isn't considered 'one of us' It is onlly when we change this idiotic mindset that we will be free of BEE/AA. And before people start jumping to conclusions. I realise racism works both ways. So let's just get over it already and move on. We are all South Africans.
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How many black bussiness companies exist as compared to white companies. Are you telling me that the whites still run/.own the majority? Hell what an achievement or rather how bloody poor that even with the goverment support and laws AA/BEE failed!

So let's just get over it already and move on. We are all South Africans
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Here you said it, thats the solution! So lets get to the point of equal opportunity as Timgaul suggests with checks and balances in place and NOT RACIST LAWS!
 
timgaul said:
Equal education eventually resulting in best-man-for-job scenario which will ultimately reflect the country's diversity.

This country, and indeed this continent, is not willing to build a future - they want everything now. This is not going to work in the long run and we need to build up a decent groundwork for the future.

Had this been the plan from 1994 within the next five years we should be seeing the workforce reflecting these changes. Unfortunately I doubt this is not going to be the case as too much emphasis has been put on AA/BEE and not enough on breeding a generation of equal opportunity/education individuals.
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I agree with you that we are very much focussed on having everything we want right now. But with so much lacking when the ANC came into power it became a feeding frenzy as it would have been had any other party come into power. They were over zealous and tried to do everything overnight.

There will always be those 'fat cat' politicians who line their own pocket regardless of who is in power but it should be our job as South Africans to hold them accountable for this. Easier said then done more often than not.

I can't seem to find a single political party who has a major outline for education though. Has anyone else seen something that i perhaps have missed?
 
Penguin my question to you is this:

Out of all poor South Africans that fall below the bread line how many of them are actually white?

The whites don't have it as bad off as some portray. I get annoyed when i hear this term that gets thrown around of 'reverse apartheid'. You have to be kidding me right? There is simply no comparison betweeen then and now so why do people insist on comparing the two?
 
JustAsk said:
Why Anc,now why cope?

I don't feel a need to explain myself and my decisions to anybody.
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Well? Why anybody?

You don't have to explain yourself. No-one's forcing you. Personally, I am interested in understanding why people would continue to vote for the ANC.

From what you say it seems that my original impression was correct. It's a racial thing.

That's apartheid-era thinking, to my mind, which makes sense because apartheid put people in categories for no other reason than their race, and that mindset seems to have stuck. Apartheid can be blamed for everything! :-D

And the longer people vote according to the colour of their skin, the longer the apartheid legacy will remain. Amazing, really. The ANC desperately tries to imply that the DA wants to bring Apartheid back ... but really, the best way to perpetuate Apartheid is for black people to blindly vote ANC.

Still, I was really hoping there was a different reason to vote ANC, and I'm disappointed that - if there is - you've decided to keep it to yourself. There's no point posting messages in a public forum if you're not willing to share the reasoning behind your opinions.
 
Serqet said:
Penguin my question to you is this:

Out of all poor South Africans that fall below the bread line how many of them are actually white?

The whites don't have it as bad off as some portray. I get annoyed when i hear this term that gets thrown around of 'reverse apartheid'. You have to be kidding me right? There is simply no comparison betweeen then and now so why do people insist on comparing the two?
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Rather think of it this way. Why create a new poor society. Why push down a certain specific group. Who is to gain anything out of it in the end. It is just oppurtunities lost, many young and intelegent, very capable and talented people, leave the country because the doors are shut. Many very capable kids just cannot get to study further anywhere after school if their parents cannot afford it, they get shunned based on skin colour. You maybe do not like to hear it but it is fact. Others like JustAsk relish in the thought.

Its the same with ZimBOBwe, they thought by chasing the farmers and give the land to "farmers" they would benefit. What happened! Who gained anything at all by the way MadBoB ran that country. NO one gained. Everyone lost and lost dearly!

I pray and hope the ANC would not do the same but unfortunately with people like Malema, Zuma, and JustAsk in charge, I am starting to wonder
 
JustAsk said:
Your DA didn't even win the majority in CT,they had to go scrap some parties together to organise their democracy.
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Love or hate the DA or ANC or PAPAPAWWA (i.e. people against people against people...), the fact is that under the DA and the smaller parties, Cape Town has been run at least 900% better than under useless Mfeketo and the ANC.

This is fact. Its not a debate, not pro DA, not anti ANC or ID or PCTY.

Opinion would be that they can continue this much improved track record when/if they (DA + smaller parties) run the province.
 
JustAsk said:
Your DA didn't even win the majority in CT,they had to go scrap some parties together to organise their democracy.
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I still strikes me as amazing that educated people on this forum do not understand the basics of democracy. Having a party win an outright majority, especially greater than two-thirds, is a very bad thing for democracy. Coalitions are very common practice in many older democratic countries where there exists vast opposition to the ruling party.

Such a process ensures the ruling party bow to the will of the people and not their own egos. Its sad when someone refers to such a situation as "their democracy", without ever realising this is democracy in action!

We can only hope the same for future parliaments where legislature won't be pushed through merely because the ruling party deems it so. Such measures keep a single party state from forming and doing as they please.
 
Serqet said:
The mere fact that ANC gets so many voters is evidence of how ill-informed the majority of voters are. I can guarantee you majority of ANC voters do not know what policies the party is for or against. Same can be said for DA, IFP, COPE.
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Thats where you are very much mistaken dude, the people vote for the ANC becuase of policies, like widening of the social security net, those without jobs know exactly what that means. Land reform is another they are aware of. Housing, no matter how much the ANC has under performed, but really the list goes on.

Do not make the same mistake that every opposition party, and most forumites for that matter, make. Which is to think the average voter is clueless and should not be entrusted to vote. But what they seem to forget is that no other political party has been singing the tune the voters want to hear. And IMO, that is democracy 101.
 
JustAsk said:
Why Anc,now why cope?

I don't feel a need to explain myself and my decisions to anybody.I couldn't care less for who you vote,seems you care more about my choice.I won't waiste my time here with people that is clearly part of the one sided view,the thread of sipho springs to mind.There is some big differences between me and white people that don't see the need for aa/ee,which means,we simply don't belong in the same party.
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AA/BEE are tools used to address social inequalities.

They do not appear to be working. The tools suffer from poor application visa viz nepotism and racism. The DA policies do not appose AA, they apposed the current implimentation regime because it's not working!.

The government needs to address the plight of the impoverished irrespective of race or colour or political affiliation.

Right now, the perception is, that if you're not Black, and a card carrying member of the ANC then you're going to suck the hindtit. If your community doesn't vote ANC, it's going to suck the hindtit.

Truth of the matter is that the ANC doesn't play nicely with others.



Historically the best method of addressing social inequalities is education.
Why has the ANC systematically crippled the education system in this country?
 
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