Advice on ending a long term relationship

Arthur said:
Ah, ok. So you enjoyed one another's bodies without anything more than a sentimental attachment of convenience.

There is only one solution that has half a chance of staving off unevitable decay into a lonely, unfulfilled and deeply forlorn old age for both of you: muster up the love and courage to make the serious, deep and liberating commitment that is marriage. You have to risk everything for the sake of the other, for nothing ventured nothing gained. It'll be very hard work, since you have at least 18 years of uncommitted living to make up for. It's late in the day, but perhaps there's still time for both of you to develop the courage to live your lives with purpose.
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Arthur, I appreciate the point of view, but I honestly don't see how standing in front of a priest and signing a piece of paper is going to change anything. We are both heathens of the highest order. So even if we did that, neither of us believe in marriage as a contract.

We have both been through hell, personally and for each other. No God changed that, and no book or paper ever could.

Have a good day, wherever you find yourself.
 
I can empathize with MND to an extent.

I chose to walk away after 14 years and R80k that I spent on courses for her over those years so she can invest in herself and eventually help me out financially.

She passed only ONE course, the others she just didn't bother attending because she lost interest.

It got to the point where we no longer had mutual friends and as a result we had very little to talk about because she would either spend time with friends or if she was home would sit on the phone all day.

Yes she did contribute by cooking and cleaning, but so did I. The connection we had just dwindled.

The straw that broke the camel's back was when she withdrew R5k from my account (we each had a card to my check account). This caused me to have too little money left over to service the bond.

I confronted her and she concocted a story about her parents urgently having needed money and she was going to tell me. A few days later I saw on her sister's FB they were having cocktails in Melkbosstrand the time the money was withdrawn.

That same day I called a lawyer friend of mine and started divorce proceedings because it dawned on me that she didn't give a shirt about our marriage anymore.

Not long after she told me she got accepted at a job at Amazon (we discussed those virtual assistant jobs on here) . It doesnt earn her much, but her eyes finally opened, but by that time I had already moved out (a year ago to the day incidentally) aand already paid the lawyer's fees.

I'm not going to struggle with someone for years and they only take me seriously once I initiated the divorce.

**** that.
 
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r4nd0m said:
Is she a traditional woman? Is she willing to become one?

I'm not sure about the dynamics of the relationship, but have you two ever discussed that?

Traditional: You provide income (provider role), she maintains hearth and home.
Current model: You both earn but assume gender roles or help each other out where needed.

If you're open to the traditional model, then you can't look to her in times of crisis (that's your job), but she must support you all the way. She must cook, clean, shop and take care of all the admin. Not sure if she can or will do that.
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Current model, from the jump, she made that clear. I agreed, as a current model myself.

And so we started our journey together.
 
bwana said:
If they are then a) is pretty much off the table. There are going to be lawyers (his and hers), housing, rehabilitative maintenance,... then, depending on how they were married the distribution of assets.
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If they aren't and dating as long as he said, then option a is still not possible. Living together for so long sets you up for awhile set of responsibilities in our law. Unless he sends her packing and she just accepts it and not see a lawyer, it's going to be a financial issue
 
gertvanjoe said:
If they aren't and dating as long as he said, then option a is still not possible. Living together for so long sets you up for awhile set of responsibilities in our law. Unless he sends her packing and she just accepts it and not see a lawyer, it's going to be a financial issue
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Thankfully in SA we don't have common law marriage.
 
r4nd0m said:
So in this sentence you say what purports to love and care of her, but in your OP you're asking us if you should effectively abandon her with no/minimal financial support.

In the above scenario you'd be dead and she'd have to figure things out versus you alive right now and kicking her out for what you say is effectively her being 'useless'?

You're contradicting yourself or you're not explaining properly.
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Have you ever cared so much for someone that you cannot stand the sight of them losing their will, their fire for life, and just accepting their fate. Just happy to exist, to hang on to someone until that person is incapable or dead.

If I'm dead, I can't help her, recover, rebuild or just pick things up where we left off. I have always been there for her, more than she has been there for herself.

I'd much rather see her succeed, than not. Have you ever cared so much for another person that you would let them go, so that they can learn to be strong, not for you, but for themselves.

It was, will never be about money, it's about someone who has lost the will / need to be strong, for herself.
 
Snyper564 said:
You gonna have to work on it long term, sit down and discuss it. There is more to a relationship than just money. Set and define goals and work towards it. You don't just have skills and earn money over night. What work did she do beforehand how old are you guys?

I have been married over 9 years now (dated since 2006) but we are a rock solid team. There is none of this contributing equally "stuff" from a money perspective at times she earned more at times I have earned more but we pull together as a team. If she does well we do well if I do well we do well.
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40 a piece.

It's been that, it was a rock solid team, it was all of what you said and so much more. Until she stopped "doing". Imagine your wife is so comfortable that she just opts out of the team. The team you counted on, became a team of one.
 
MagNorthDigital said:
Howzit boys.

So about a 4 months ago, I gave the missus an ultimatum, after 10 years of trying to get her skilled up and contributing to the household in a financially meaningful way. We've been glued to each other for 18 years straight, no cheating, no missteps, no bs.

But, Sh__ got real dire about 3 years ago, and I had to pull both my thumbs out my ass, to get us back on track, almost lost the house, sold a car, and burned through most of my savings.

At no point, could she, or did she help, that's when I started thinking, this cherry won the lottery, and that ain't right by me.

We never made offspring, so it's a clean split, she goes her way, I go mine. Sure there is always paperwork, insurance and all that kak, but that is minor.

Here is the thing, on the one end, she is a financial burden, I'm paying for two, and have been for a good long while now. She helps where she can, around the house, cooks sometimes, tries to learn new skills, but nothing she has tried makes her any cash. She hasn't helped with so much as groceries for a week, in 10 years.

Now for the advice part, and where I'm like, should I just go straight Sub Zero and send her on her way. Cause when she walks out that front door she is homeless, jobless and up **** creek with no boat, paddle or family.

I sat her down 2 years ago and I warned her, it ain't always going to be moonshine and roses, and I kept reminding her, she needs to be able / capable of looking after herself, I could get hit by a bus tomorrow.

And then 4 months ago, I asked her to book us a weekend away, and she just made such a mess of it, it ended up with us not going, and refunds not available.

I funking lost it, and told her, she has until Jan to start contributing. Even if it's only paying for take-aways on a weekend.

It's the 25th, Xmas day. 3 guesses who bought and cooked Xmas lunch?

So, here is the question.

a) Send her packing, straight, no chaser.
b) Send her packing, but help for another 6 months
c) Try some more, and hope this time is different.
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Apart from the money issue, how's your relationship itself?

Does she at least pull her weight around the house by cooking and cleaning etc.? Is that not a contribution? When you have kids would she not be contributing by seeing to them?

Keep in mind that if she has to start working, you'll have to split the household load. Is that something you're willing to do?

Having been on both sides, I prefer my wife staying at home. I always have a lekker meal ready and the kid is seen to. When she was working we would have to split the load and it was a ballache. We had more money but at the cost of both our personal time.

Good luck. Don't rush into something over money alone, without considering all factors...
 
MagNorthDigital said:
Arthur, I appreciate the point of view, but I honestly don't see how standing in front of a priest and signing a piece of paper is going to change anything. We are both heathens of the highest order. So even if we did that, neither of us believe in marriage as a contract.

We have both been through hell, personally and for each other. No God changed that, and no book or paper ever could.

Have a good day, wherever you find yourself.
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Of course I completely get where you're coming from. But I think you completely miss what marriage substantially is. It has nothing to do with the State or even the church or what the government or law says, which is why the State can neither create not dissolve the marital bond. It's not a contract, and the priest does not effect the marriage. The paper is irrelevant. What matters is the mutual gifting of selves through a permanent and irrevocable bond. Which is why marriage is effected by the parties themselves, not the witnesses such priest and people. The intrusion of the State into marriage is a very recent thing in history, and I would submit an intolerable corruption and violation, because it reduces a covenant to a contract. They are not even remotely the same thing.

In a contract you say this thing is yours and that is mine - an exchange of things. In a covenant you freely say I am yours and you are mine - an exchange of selves, persons. Persons are not things. The marital bond is not something the State can bring about, because all the State deals with is externals and legal ramifications. Marriage is very, very much more than that - it works at depths in the human person that lie far beyond the State's purview. Anything other than a free and indissoluble gifting in mutual commitment is not marriage but an imitation in externals, a playing at legal technicalities and externals, completely missing the very heart and substance of what marriage is.

Of course you are quite free to make up your own definition of anything you want, including marriage. But it would be folly to think that reality will bend itself to your will. The laws of human nature and the realities which they manifest are objective, and reality always wins.
 
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skimread said:
Something is off. A person cannot not contribute anything or do nothing. It goes against human nature. She must do something
What does she do all day?

Her answer of living in the now when you question her future makes zero sense as she doesn't do anything from what you describe.

Regarding the bad holiday she planned. One is only good at something you have done many times and have an interest in. You can't hold it against her.

You have to ask yourself how does her parents live. What example did they set for her. Did the mother also do nothing and not look after the household? However she doesn't have a kid when her mother did, so something is just off?
It sounds like she has no grasp or reality of what one has to do to survive. It seems you have isolated her from the real world struggles.

How old is her parents? Can she go move back in with them?
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This is incredibly on point. Like scary accurate.

She designs all day. I got her all the kit she needed, and courses to effectively change her career path to what she wanted, rather than what she had to do.

This has been a fruitless, tiresome endeavor. Which has demotivated both of us. So "we" try something else. Another way of thinking, another avenue. To no success.

Living in the now, has been our way of dealing with the past, it's been our way of saying, I'm willing to change, to be present.

Re: Holiday planning. She essentially "gave away" 35k in one shot. Not cause she can't work the internet, she just made a bunch of really poor planning errors. Flights wrong, booking 15km away from the nearest town. With no transport. Like we where gonna grow wings and fly around.

Her parents? Years ago, both working. Now, in debt and still gambling. Just not with her anymore. She left that house, I gave her a reason to stay with me, I promised her a better life, one where she could build herself, where we could walk together. Be equal.

Yes, I shielded her from the struggles of life, as best I could. But when she was younger, she tried. Now she is just content with sitting idle.

This comment, your comment is so accurate, so poignant. Incredible
 
MagNorthDigital said:
Have you ever cared so much for another person that you would let them go, so that they can learn to be strong, not for you, but for themselves.
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This is some top shelf "justification" Hollywood rubbish if there ever was.

No - just be honest, you are sick of her lack of will to do anything and you want out. You're not leaving her for her sake, it's for yours. Be a man, be honest. People have done much much worse.

Those of us who get married and accept the "risk" both sign contracts and proclaim in front of witnesses "through sickness and health, until death do is part". Religious or not, if you say those words and don't live by it you are a lying SOB. And that is why it is totally understandable why many people do not do it, they want the possibility of an out both financially and I guess "ethically" since you never promise anything.

So kick her ass to the curb but don't say it's because of love.

Don't make love and commitment cheap.
 
Willie Trombone said:
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Been paying for my wife, my step-daughter and our two kids on my own for almost 27 years now.
I lost my job about 6 months before we were married. She took the gamble. She was earning more than me when we were married, but when my son was born, we decided she would be at home to raise the kids.
It was a decision we both made. I'm very happy we did. I make the money, she spends it. I don't have to think about the budget much at all.
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Do you see how people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?
 
skimread said:
She doesn't get income then where does she get money for her art ? her savings?

You might find that she lets you pay all the bills but might have gotten inheritance or has a big amount of money stashed away. She might be an only child and figured when her parents pass away she is set for life. Why would she want to do a boring 9 to 5 job when she is already set? If I had parents that are closed to death who would leave me a big estate why would I work hard in a repetitive job I hate?
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Me, it's been me all this time. For 6 years, it's been me. Her parents tried to extract money from her. I put a stop to that.
 
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SauRoNZA said:
Sounds like she may be suffering from depression.

Has she ever seen someone regarding mental well-being?

Why did she leave the job?
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Yep, we pulled each other out of depression. Literally.

She left cause they kept upping her responsibility and hours, for little to no benefit. So we discussed her taking a break over a December (2008) and kicking off a new job in Jan. That never happened.
 
I'm no expert here but as a human with feelings I would imagine the worst way to ending any relationship is the long, drawn-out, "is it on or is it off" option. For me being straight-up and to the point is painful but better in the long run for everybody.
 
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