ANC - Western Cape independence!

[Sackboy]

So will surrounding South Africans be seen as immigrants? If you were to look at 1st world countries, there are large groups (mostly right wing) that oppose people coming into their countries while ignoring the fact that these people are the ones doing the blue collar jobs etc.

I think that's a complete fallacy, I mean who was doing the jobs before they arrived. Not robots ...!

 

[BBSA]

So will surrounding South Africans be seen as immigrants?

Yes, the Cape will be a sovereign country.

 

[plazma]

Yes, the Cape will be a sovereign country.

No it will not, because this is simply not going to happen.

Secession (and not 'independence' as some are calling it here) is nearly always a failure.

Our Constitution makes this provision, in Chapter 14:
235. Self-determination

The right of the South African people as a whole to self-determination, as manifested in this Constitution, does not preclude, within the framework of this right, recognition of the notion of the right of self-determination of any community sharing a common cultural and language heritage, within a territorial entity in the Republic or in any other way, determined by national legislation.

If the posts in this thread are indicative of the general sentiment in this regard, then hell will freeze over before the Cape goes its own way.

In any event, this entire thread is based on conjecture and nonsense; it has no factual basis and is instead a good example of herd mentality and the crippling effects of being only semi-literate.

If anyone thinks our central government will allow the Cape to go it alone, just because a few white people think it's a good idea, you're dreaming. Ignorance must be bliss.

By the way, let's start a thread to discuss the recent tolchocking of the Tamil Tigers.

 

[ld13]

No it will not, because this is simply not going to happen.

If the USA decides to wipe out Russia, how many people will die?
None because they will not do it.

That is just not the way to answer a question in a thread plazma. Let the people have some fun at least and then show them the error of their ways, but don't break them down it the way you did it.

By the way, let's start a thread to discuss the recent tolchocking of the Tamil Tigers.

Absolutely nothing stopping anyone from doing just that ...

 

[BBSA]

No it will not, because this is simply not going to happen.

Secession (and not 'independence' as some are calling it here) is nearly always a failure.

Our Constitution makes this provision, in Chapter 14:
235. Self-determination

The right of the South African people as a whole to self-determination, as manifested in this Constitution, does not preclude, within the framework of this right, recognition of the notion of the right of self-determination of any community sharing a common cultural and language heritage, within a territorial entity in the Republic or in any other way, determined by national legislation.

If the posts in this thread are indicative of the general sentiment in this regard, then hell will freeze over before the Cape goes its own way.

In any event, this entire thread is based on conjecture and nonsense; it has no factual basis and is instead a good example of herd mentality and the crippling effects of being only semi-literate.

If anyone thinks our central government will allow the Cape to go it alone, just because a few white people think it's a good idea, you're dreaming. Ignorance must be bliss.

By the way, let's start a thread to discuss the recent tolchocking of the Tamil Tigers.

You must actually go and read the link again and you will see it was the ANC who suggested it and not "few white people" as you put it.

We were speculating about the possibility, but I do not think anybody think that it will actually happen, so you can keep your insults to yourself.

If you do not like this thread stop reading it and go and create a thread about the Tamil Tigers.

 

[RetroBok]

Those who doubt the intentions of the Cape Independence, handy hint, go look at the Cape Party's website, and read it from start to finish...

www.capeparty.com

They're not racist, and as far as I can see they have a pretty good case for Independence, secession is part of the process yes...

 

[Serqet]

It seems all rather pro Cape pro dreamlike state of being.

 

[RetroBok]

Yes it does to an extent, however, it's not impossible, AND for people like me who miss my country of birth and would only move back under certain conditions, it gives a tiny little bit of hope, which at the moment as things stand there doesn't seem to be any hope. Independence won't happen in the next election or the one after that, however if they play their cards right, it might actually become a reality.

My two pennies worth anyway.

 

[smokey]

Yes it does to an extent, however, it's not impossible, AND for people like me who miss my country of birth and would only move back under certain conditions, it gives a tiny little bit of hope, which at the moment as things stand there doesn't seem to be any hope. Independence won't happen in the next election or the one after that, however if they play their cards right, it might actually become a reality.

My two pennies worth anyway.

50-100 years, unless there is a major shift in current politics.

 

[RetroBok]

50-100 years, unless there is a major shift in current politics.

So be it They haven't put a date on indpendence...yet

I'm ok though because as a hippy and living the hippy way of life I'll be around for another 86 years surely. (Sorry had to get that in, you called me one in a post a day or two back )

 

[smokey]

So be it They haven't put a date on indpendence...yet

I'm ok though because as a hippy and living the hippy way of life I'll be around for another 86 years surely. (Sorry had to get that in, you called me one in a post a day or two back )

 

[RetroBok]

Get a woody, hug a tree

 

[smokey]

Watch out for the SAP!!!!!!


Oh noesss..... too late?!

*rummages around for youtube quickshare on cellphone*

 

[zamaboy]

I think western cape people should wake up,we must stop entertaining these antics of these political party's wether it be Hellin Zille or Jacob Zuma.And to any person who think that western cape separate from the rest of the country,I think if that's the mindset of the people of the cape then there is realy something wrong and sorry to say then our country is heading downhill.I think the politicians should consetrate on doing there job and staying out of the media,in fact don't know why anybody is making a big fuss of DA in western cape they just as bad as ANC,just show how low our standards as South Africans is both these party's has done the bear minimum and that's exceptable to us.I accepted the politicians bad mouthing each other during the election,but its over know get on with doing your job that we paying you for,you are just a public servant.We must stop entertaining them and tell them to do there jobs.

 

[smokey]

I think western cape people should wake up,we must stop entertaining these antics of these political party's wether it be Hellin Zille or Jacob Zuma.And to any person who think that western cape separate from the rest of the country,I think if that's the mindset of the people of the cape then there is realy something wrong and sorry to say then our country is heading downhill.I think the politicians should consetrate on doing there job and staying out of the media,in fact don't know why anybody is making a big fuss of DA in western cape they just as bad as ANC,just show how low our standards as South Africans is both these party's has done the bear minimum and that's exceptable to us.I accepted the politicians bad mouthing each other during the election,but its over know get on with doing your job that we paying you for,you are just a public servant.We must stop entertaining them and tell them to do there jobs.

I'm half-way between dreamy dream land and the land of the waking and I still noticed two very bad mistakes in your spelling.

Having said that... Zille did not get Mayor of the Year award for doing bare minimum - she did as much as she could in her power.

Point, set and match!

 

[Cape-Independence]

Already the Western Cape is economically self-sufficient with its GDP currently making up about 15% of the national GDP. The problem of course is that the WCape only recieves 9% of the National revenue with the other 6% going to subsidized the failing economies of the Eastern Cape and Limpopo. Not only is the Western Cape subsidizing the Eastern Cape in terms of budget (which they are in turn squanderring through corruption and incompotence) we are also employing, housing and educating thousands of their citizens.

The Wcape has since 1994 always out - paced the national GDP by about a percentage point and this while recieving so little in return. With the Eastern cape currently sponsoring poverty growth and underdevelopment in the WC it is understandable that growth is limited and that crime is so high. These of course are further deterents to investment in the Cape. AIDS numbers have too grown steadily and are correlated with the influx of migrants from the Ecape.

What does this all mean? Service delivery in the Wcape is being hampered by its inclusion in a senseless union with South Africa.


►1. The deepest questions of human liberty and government facing our time go beyond right and left, and in fact have made the old left-right split meaningless and dead.

►2. Any political entity has the right to separate itself from a larger body of which it is a part and peaceably to establish its independence as a free and legitimate state in the eyes of the world.

►3. Governments are instituted among peoples, deriving their just powers from the consent of their citizens, and whenever any form of government becomes destructive of the legitimate goals of life, liberty, prosperity, and self-determination, it is the right of the people in democratic fashion to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government in such form as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness...

►4. Without secession, liberty and self-government can never be sustained, and diversity among human societies can never survive.

►5. Direct democracy, with one vote for each and every citizen (as the polity shall designate citizenship), has proven to be a desirable form of governance among people, but it can operate with justice and equality only when at a small enough scale that each person may be known to every other person; when representative forms of government are undertaken, they should likewise best be established at a scale small enough so that each representative can be informed of the opinions and beliefs of the general run of the people in the constituency or community which that person is chosen to represent.

It is within this body of principles that we ask all governments to operate and it is by them that we ourselves, individually and the organization we represent, intend to be guided toward an Independent and Free Cape of Good Hope!

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2372533283

 

[Cape-Independence]

"A nation, therefore, has no right to say to a province: You belong to me, I want to take you. A province consists of its inhabitants. If anybody has a right to be heard in this case it is these inhabitants." - Ludwig Von Mises.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Bwahahahahaha...


sorrry... let me breathe for a second..

Bwahahahahahahahahahah *collapses from laughing too much*

1 small thing, the WC is economically self sufficient?.. Really? in whose eyes?

 

[Cape-Independence]

If you need a laugh to make urself feel better about it be my guest, but ur laughing won't change the fact that our movement toward an independent Cape Republic IS growing, we want out of this union and fast.

We only got 2500 votes in the provincial election, however we had only been campaigning for a few months and beat all the other smaller parties. We have representatives in most major Cape cities and towns from Simons town to george, Somerset West to Alexandria, our framework for recruitment is strong and efficient and we got the funding.

Your laughing tells me nothing, except maybe something about ur age and maybe location, (up North somewhere perhaps?)

As to economics, the Western Cape is the single most milked province in the RSA. We have the second highest GDP just short of Gauteng, but our population is less than half. We have the lowest unemployment in SA, highest education standards, lowest HIV infections and highest investor confidence.

According to the latest data, in 2008 the Gross Domestic Product of the Western Cape was R175 billion. Financial intermediation, insurance, real estate and business services was the largest producing sector at R54 billion. Manufacturing came second at R30 billion. Wholesale and retail trade, catering and accommodation produced R29 billion, followed by an established agricultural, forestry and fishing sector. These are hallmarks of a well balanced first-world economy. This confirms that in spite of the government’s extraction of wealth the Cape is by itself a world class economy.

Compared with some of the most successful economies in the world such as Singapore, Switzerland, Hong Kong and Ireland (high income per capita, low unemployment) the Cape has a distinct advantage in land and resources.

For every R100 that the Western Cape pays in taxes only R24 is returned and spent on the needs of the Cape people. This is compared with the Eastern Cape that receives R183 for every R100 that they pay. The people of the Cape have 76% of their taxed wealth stolen from them, while the Eastern Cape enjoys an 83% gain.

An independent Cape would have 4 times more money to spend on its people.

 

[Palimino]

Independance of Western Cape is impossible. Imagine that, and I am sure Cacadus district and some areas of Northern Cape will want to be part of the new state and a war between Western Cape and South Africa will follow

Civil war? I don’t think so. The State President can technically deploy SA troops but (IMO) this risks division along racial lines. Other elements also need to be factored into the potential for civil war.

#1 There are strong links between WC and SA.

#2 Non-blacks overwhelming hold any positions in logistics involving skill. The mechanised and technical elements of the SANDF will grind to a halt rapidly. Any war effort will depend, to a great extent, on logistics, airpower and technical know-how. Non-blacks overwhelmingly, fill these positions. And if there is no competent logistics…

#3 A SANDF where the embittered ‘whites’ have been passed over for promotion etc. in spite of years of loyalty (AA for MK & APLA cadres), is not going to be loyal.

#4 There will be tremendous negative pressure on serving whites from friends and relatives.

#5 International mercenaries would be relatively easy to recruit. Governments may deplore the civil war but, because the situation is so bad, will not make more than a token show of stopping recruitment.

#6 There will be many SA volunteers. These are not the paunchy, brandy & coke swilling indulgers of right-wing rhetoric over the braai. However repugnant their ideology is considered, many of the younger bunch were very good soldiers (the extreme right wing may offer their combat services for free).

#7. And so on…

War? Not even remotely feasible.