ANC - Western Cape independence!

[ToxicBunny]

Actually no... what I'm trying to get you to do is put forth a VALID argument as to when the Cape will get its independence and how now since you clearly have little understanding of a proportional democracy like we have in this country, and also at the same time get you to research the "facts" you put down, because on the internet that will be examined and shown to be lies like the one you put forth about the WC GDPR.

 

[chiskop]

Just google "The Cape Party" or "Cape Independence" and see what happens

This thread and the other one where you posted are the top two results.
http://www.google.co.za/search?hl=en&q=Cape Independence

-on the one hand you have the descendants of those Afrikaans people who left the Cape after the Great Trek. These Afrikaners are notably different from those in the Cape, with much "harder" mentalities and less commitment in helping the "new South Africa" to reach it's goals. This may be due to the racial "complexities" of the north, and the severe economic gap between the 2. The Great Trek historical aspect is also significant... a "right wing" mentality if you will...

-on the other hand you have the large black segment of society. Many of those categorised in this segment are rural, illiterate and blindly support the rapid Africanisation or socialist agenda's of the government, (and even openly aspire to Communism.) It also comprises of a growing middle class of blacks, notably in the urban centres, who have gained from this policy of Africanising SA. Both of the groups in this segment arguably display a more "left-wing" mentality...

Massive racial generalizations ftw.

 

[genetic]

This thread has made me anti Cape Independence.

 

[phoneJunky]

From wikipedia - western cape has the third highest gdp with 14.6%
Guess you were wrong there.

Have the lowest unemployment rate though and highest standard of education.

I don't think the the cape will be independant anytime soon. We should rather focus on making the country better.

 

[Serqet]

Well said phonejunky. Helen Zille is commited to making SA as a whole better not just her little WC. Take a leaf out of her book please.

 

[sutekj]

It would just be easier to increase living standards in the cape if we weren't constantly dragged down by South Africa.

It just feels like an overwhelming task to try and work with a country that gives two thirds of their votes to the ANC.

Living in a smaller country would mean that it is easier to keep your government responsible for their actions.

There is also definitely differing opinions. Most people in the cape count themselves lucky to have Helen Zille run things here, but two thirds of South Africa's population feels otherwise. It therefore makes sense to split. This will keep most people happy. More people will be ruled by a party that they agree with. Cape Townians happy to rule themselves, South African's happy to rule themselves.

When one group tells another group that they are not allowed to rule themselves; or that they have to submit to someone else's rule, its called oppression. It's not true democracy.

So, if you're from the cape and you don't want independence your vote will be counted. But if you're not from the cape it's not your business tell us what we should do.

That being said, once the cape is its own country people from South Africa will be allowed to immigrate here if they can contribute to building up the country (Same as with other first world countires).

Many people with money and skills are already moving from up north to the cape. Here is a link to an article about it on news24 http://www.news24.com/News24/MyNews24/Your_story/0,,2-2127-2128_2522189,00.html

 

[Cyrus62]

well said sutekj

 

[Molokai]

So even if this happened, who then would fall into the WC citizens category? People currently living in the WC? People born in the WC?

At some time then borders would have to be put up between the rest of SA and the WC. The Cape would have huge borders and policing these borders would be a huge task probably impossible task. Military intervention would be needed! And where would that come from? Who owns the military? If the WC formed its own militry it would sparc full scale war.

This is all fantasy thinking. A big wall would have to be put up and depending on which side of the wall you are at the time, that would be your country of independence. As much as I wish it could work, there is no ways that this would ever work. Sounds more like east/west Berlin if you ask me. Worse than apartheid itself.

Imagine the chaos inside this new WC independent state, a state whith such a high volume of people supporting the ANC! (30 odd %) Enough people to turn the state into and ungovernable dump. These guys will never allow it to happen!

Better and simpler to just emigrate...Otherwise just accept that SA as a whole is run by the ANC with JZ as South Africa's State president.

 

[samuelp]

So even if this happened, who then would fall into the WC citizens category? People currently living in the WC? People born in the WC?

At some time then borders would have to be put up between the rest of SA and the WC. The Cape would have huge borders and policing these borders would be a huge task probably impossible task. Military intervention would be needed! And where would that come from? Who owns the military? If the WC formed its own militry it would sparc full scale war.

This is all fantasy thinking. A big wall would have to be put up and depending on which side of the wall you are at the time, that would be your country of independence. As much as I wish it could work, there is no ways that this would ever work. Sounds more like east/west Berlin if you ask me. Worse than apartheid itself.

Imagine the chaos inside this new WC independent state, a state whith such a high volume of people supporting the ANC! (30 odd %) Enough people to turn the state into and ungovernable dump. These guys will never allow it to happen!

Better and simpler to just emigrate...Otherwise just accept that SA as a whole is run by the ANC with JZ as South Africa's State president.

Better and Simpler to emigrate ? That's funny ! You don't imaggine how hard it is to emigrate. Many Safffas are coming back just because they did not expect such difficulties. In fact you can emigrate even if you have nearly nothing behind you and if you want to start from scratch again.

May be it would be easier for Gautenger and others to relocate to Western Cape and be part of that new challenge (province under DA rules). But an independant WC state is impossible, anyway.

 

[2CentsWorth]

It would just be easier to increase living standards in the cape if we weren't constantly dragged down by South Africa.

It just feels like an overwhelming task to try and work with a country that gives two thirds of their votes to the ANC.

Living in a smaller country would mean that it is easier to keep your government responsible for their actions.

There is also definitely differing opinions. Most people in the cape count themselves lucky to have Helen Zille run things here, but two thirds of South Africa's population feels otherwise. It therefore makes sense to split. This will keep most people happy. More people will be ruled by a party that they agree with. Cape Townians happy to rule themselves, South African's happy to rule themselves.

When one group tells another group that they are not allowed to rule themselves; or that they have to submit to someone else's rule, its called oppression. It's not true democracy.

So, if you're from the cape and you don't want independence your vote will be counted. But if you're not from the cape it's not your business tell us what we should do.

That being said, once the cape is its own country people from South Africa will be allowed to immigrate here if they can contribute to building up the country (Same as with other first world countires).

Many people with money and skills are already moving from up north to the cape. Here is a link to an article about it on news24 http://www.news24.com/News24/MyNews24/Your_story/0,,2-2127-2128_2522189,00.html

What a load of twaddle. The WC economy is based entirely on tourism and overpriced property. You have next to nothing in terms of natural resources and a couple of farms producing wine that is sold for next to nothing everywhere else. Your entire infrastructure either belongs to Arabs or the SA government. You have no military, a ****ty airport, no real back-up airport and the cape flats. You don't have enough power to sustain yourselves (but hey, the Mountain is lit up every night ) and that ****ing N2 highway has been under construction for 20 years. So where are you going to get all this iunfrastructure from? Handed to you by the SA government in a peaceful concorde signed over a cup of Tea at Tuinhuis? It will never happen.

 

[Cape-Independence]

Well said sutekj. THATS democracy.

 

[R13...]

What a load of twaddle. The WC economy is based entirely on tourism and overpriced property. You have next to nothing in terms of natural resources and a couple of farms producing wine that is sold for next to nothing everywhere else. Your entire infrastructure either belongs to Arabs or the SA government. You have no military, a ****ty airport, no real back-up airport and the cape flats. You don't have enough power to sustain yourselves (but hey, the Mountain is lit up every night ) and that ****ing N2 highway has been under construction for 20 years. So where are you going to get all this iunfrastructure from? Handed to you by the SA government in a peaceful concorde signed over a cup of Tea at Tuinhuis? It will never happen.

+1
let's see how well they do with this econony,

The Western Cape’s total GDP is the third-highest contribution to the country’s total, at 14.6%. The largest industry is the clothing and textile industry, which employs over 170,000 people. The textile industry is presently declining in importance, due to competition with cheaper Eastern producers, such as China.

 

[capetownguy]

The thought or discussion or rather debate around the "independence" of a possibly(not already) well functioning province is not outrageous BUT any pipe dreams about this concept must be put aside to achieve a greater unity with other provinces. The creation of groups or a "better" or "separate" province could be devastating in a country going through a change in leadership.

 

[capetownguy]

What a load of twaddle. The WC economy is based entirely on tourism and overpriced property. You have next to nothing in terms of natural resources and a couple of farms producing wine that is sold for next to nothing everywhere else. Your entire infrastructure either belongs to Arabs or the SA government. You have no military, a ****ty airport, no real back-up airport and the cape flats. You don't have enough power to sustain yourselves (but hey, the Mountain is lit up every night ) and that ****ing N2 highway has been under construction for 20 years. So where are you going to get all this iunfrastructure from? Handed to you by the SA government in a peaceful concorde signed over a cup of Tea at Tuinhuis? It will never happen.

Its a horrible horrible place. Just bloody awful.

 

[greggpb]

@Cape Independance

I would just be aware that everything you say here is marketing your party to a bunch of educated individuals, with great political knowledge. My advice here would be to state your case, answer any questions asked to the best of you ablitiy and debate until you are blue in the face if you wish.

but refrain from mud slinging, ignoring questions that raise hard issues and check you grammar and spelling as you are a political representative and even short coming with be used against you.

All this text can be used against you at a later stage so I would just advice caution.

Viva la cape

 

[Palimino]

I think western cape people should wake up,we must stop entertaining these antics of these political party's wether it be Hellin Zille or Jacob Zuma.And to any person who think that western cape separate from the rest of the country,I think if that's the mindset of the people of the cape then there is realy something wrong and sorry to say then our country is heading downhill.I think the politicians should consetrate on doing there job and staying out of the media,in fact don't know why anybody is making a big fuss of DA in western cape they just as bad as ANC,just show how low our standards as South Africans is both these party's has done the bear minimum and that's exceptable to us.I accepted the politicians bad mouthing each other during the election,but its over know get on with doing your job that we paying you for,you are just a public servant.We must stop entertaining them and tell them to do there jobs.

I take it you are a disciple of that idiot, Malema. His calls to intimidate voters in the WC are really dumb. Many of the oppressed in SA have made huge sacrifices but are holding back because they (foolishly IMO) hope for democracy in SA rather than another failed African basket-case country. If that Malema fool tries to intimidate the voters in the WC he will signal the total end of any pretence at democracy. There will be no more reason to hold back (the opposite in fact for any hope of democracy). Democracy through the barrel of a gun? Not very African.

In addition, the only experience the Malema jerk has of violence is the regular criminal thuggery. He thinks intimidation can be accomplished with a scaled-up version of thugishness.

News flash: Many politicians (and others) think they can control organised violence. They can frequently trigger it but thereafter, it is largely out of their control. I would venture that rage and anger is such that the Malema creature may well trigger a virtual extermination (never again).

A case of ‘reaping the whirlwind’.

 

[Cape-Independence]

the ANC are represented and cosist of these types of fools. Malema may be leader of the ANCYL, but he openly saying and doing what the ANC would if it could, either way they feel the same and have the same outlooks. Other branches in their alliance include the SA Communist party, COSATU, MK "war veterans," etc etc etc. They all cant stand the idea of the DA ruling the Western Cape. They believe in democracy as long as the ANC are in power. They feel nothing for the Cape people and are merely interested in our exploitation.

Thats why the Cape Party is rallying support for Independence.

 

[R13...]

the ANC are represented and cosist of these types of fools. Malema may be leader of the ANCYL, but he openly saying and doing what the ANC would if it could, either way they feel the same and have the same outlooks. Other branches in their alliance include the SA Communist party, COSATU, MK "war veterans," etc etc etc. They all cant stand the idea of the DA ruling the Western Cape. They believe in democracy as long as the ANC are in power. They feel nothing for the Cape people and are merely interested in our exploitation.

Thats why the Cape Party is rallying support for Independence.

What makes you think "they" can stand the idea of the WC seeking independence?

 

[Cape-Independence]

Whats right is right, why should we be bullied into living under tyranny? No thanks. We'd rather opt for secession. They wouldn't be able to stop us. Talk of civil war is unnecessary...

see more here: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2372533283

 

[ToxicBunny]

Why is your independence "right" as you so often like to say?

Valid reasons please, and no lies about the economic self-suficiency of the WC, which are very clearly not true.