ANC - Western Cape independence!

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capetownguy said:
I'd call the CTIA upgrade a bit more than a "revamp".

But then again what would you know...and why am I even bothering.
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Maybe you can get me banned today? :D

Just so we're on the same page: the upgrades to the airport are almost entirely renovations and access route/parking upgrade. The capacity of the port itself (runways, etc) are not being increased. So you call it an upgrade, I call it a revamp. The airport has not grown in jet capable capacity since it was renamed from DF Malan.

Lastly, seeing that this thread is about secession of the WC and not about the city of cape town, the airport technically belongs to ACSA and not the city or wannabe country of the WC.
 
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One thing I know is that if the western Cape somehow becomes independent, there will be a whole lot of people (mostly poor) flocking to the western Cape country to seek jobs, so at the end of the day, the western Cape country will be just like the rest of Africa :p
 
ToxicBunny said:
For everyon else reading this thread : I am not necessarily AGAINST the independence of the WC.

What I'm trying to get here is for this Cape_Independence character to either understand it won't be as easy as it thinks, as well as to put forward some valid reasons and logic as to WHY the WC deserves it independence over other provinces, as well as legally how it will obtain such independence.
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I couldn’t care less about the ‘Cape_Independence character’ but I reckon it will be pretty easy [taking independence]. Just take it [independence]. Who’s to stop you? Legality has been severely undermined (one side can’t ignore it and expect its opponent to comply). The useless SANDF? I can’t see the logistic types (pilots, technical people, etc.) risking their lives for Zuma. A toyi-toyi-ing mob wielding clubs and machetes dressed in military clothes? For what? To object against an outpost wanting civilization and competent leadership? To bring them back into the fold of crime, discrimination, incompetence, corruption, lack of a future, bla, bla? My overriding emotion (I am KZN) is envy. Maybe something will trickle through when it’s seen how well SA institutions **could** be run.
 
Sly21C said:
One thing I know is that if the western Cape somehow becomes independent, there will be a whole lot of people (mostly poor) flocking to the western Cape country to seek jobs, so at the end of the day, the western Cape country will be just like the rest of Africa :p
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There are already a whole lot of people that flocked to the western cape. One advantage to being your own country is controlling your own borders. But one things is certain, if the WC somehow does succeed in a secession, determining who qualifies as a citizen will be interesting :)
 
Palimino : You live in a seriously deluded world if you think it will be easy.

And the SANDF would very possibily surprise you, since the WC has no "army" to speak of, and the SANDF is loyal to the ANC pretty much, so that would be more than a small stumbling block. Eskom own the power infrastructure, and could very easily decide to sabotage it rather than watch it fall into the hands of a "rival" state. As for the legalities, they are what this whole thing revolves on ultimately, and as much as you want to believe the rule of law has been eroded in this country, it actually hasn't, and neither has it been eroded internationally. Just on the international law aspect, there have been "utterings" from the Cape Party that could be seen to be racist in tone which may spook the international community who would then back SA in its bid to stop WC independence.

There are variables in this equation, that from what I'm guessing the Cape Party hasn't even BEGUN to think about...
 
ToxicBunny said:
Palimino : You live in a seriously deluded world if you think it will be easy.

And the SANDF would very possibily surprise you, since the WC has no "army" to speak of, and the SANDF is loyal to the ANC pretty much, so that would be more than a small stumbling block. Eskom own the power infrastructure, and could very easily decide to sabotage it rather than watch it fall into the hands of a "rival" state. As for the legalities, they are what this whole thing revolves on ultimately, and as much as you want to believe the rule of law has been eroded in this country, it actually hasn't, and neither has it been eroded internationally. Just on the international law aspect, there have been "utterings" from the Cape Party that could be seen to be racist in tone which may spook the international community who would then back SA in its bid to stop WC independence.

There are variables in this equation, that from what I'm guessing the Cape Party hasn't even BEGUN to think about...
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It would surprise me. This is the same SANDF where embittered ‘whites’ have been passed over for promotion etc. in spite of years of loyalty in favour of MK and APLA retreads? They are going to be loyal? The ones that overwhelming hold any positions in logistics involving skill?

The mechanised and technical elements of the SANDF will grind to a halt rapidly. Any war effort will depend, to a great extent, on logistics, airpower and technical know-how. Non-blacks overwhelmingly, fill these positions. And if there is no competent logistics…
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As well, there are strong links between WC and (civilized) SA. There will also be tremendous negative pressure on serving non-blacks from friends and relatives not to go against the WC. Don’t forget, international mercenaries would be relatively easy for the WC to recruit (if required). International governments may deplore any violence but, because the situation is so bad, will not make more than a token show of stopping recruitment. In addition, the WC will have to turn away many SA volunteers from other parts of the country. These are not the paunchy, brandy & coke swilling indulgers of right-wing rhetoric over the braai. However repugnant their ideology is considered, many of the younger bunch were very good soldiers (the extreme right wing may offer their combat services for free).

Escom has stuffed-up enough. Maybe it would be a good idea to get rid of them. If the ANC ignore ‘legalities’...What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

**Nothing** can compare to ‘racist in tone utterings’ of the ANC government. The international community may well support the WC in a bid for independence.

The State President can technically deploy SA troops but this risks division along racial lines. He won’t do it because he will get his butt kicked.
 
I couldnt agree more. I dont think it will come to war. If the majority of the WC people voted in favour of secession, and the ANC wanted to block it through the use of force, the WC would immediately have International sympathy and/or support.

As to who would qualify for citizenship, im sure it would follow NORMAL processes, such as:

1. No criminal record
2. Tertiary or Higher education qualifications
3. Proof that those entering the Cape will boost job creation through employment
4. Reasonable financial proof that they wont be a burden on the WC state

etc etc. No need for alarm. No need to think its racially based.
 
I think you're being short sighted if you don't think there would at least be some type of aggression.

And whats to say the International community WOULD back the WC's call for independence since it has no basis in history really....

What are the current criteria for citizenship in SA? because if you do anything different the SA government will easiyl be able to ask questions about the elitist enclave you are trying to create.
 
You're talking about allowing a person to be a citizen if they have tertiary or higher education etc etc.. that is elitist...
 
Palimino said:
It would surprise me. This is the same SANDF where embittered ‘whites’ have been passed over for promotion etc. in spite of years of loyalty in favour of MK and APLA retreads? They are going to be loyal? The ones that overwhelming hold any positions in logistics involving skill?
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The SANDF and large parts thereof remains seriously corrupt and racist.
While changes may have taken place over time, the reality is that non-whites from the top to the bottom of the SANDF are heavily discriminated against.
 
Cape-Independence said:
I couldnt agree more. I dont think it will come to war. If the majority of the WC people voted in favour of secession, and the ANC wanted to block it through the use of force, the WC would immediately have International sympathy and/or support.

As to who would qualify for citizenship, im sure it would follow NORMAL processes, such as:

1. No criminal record
2. Tertiary or Higher education qualifications
3. Proof that those entering the Cape will boost job creation through employment
4. Reasonable financial proof that they wont be a burden on the WC state

etc etc. No need for alarm. No need to think its racially based.
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Who is going to the the grunt work? Becuase judging by your requirments for citizenship, I would guess a LOT of the people currently in the WC would not make the cut.
 
Im sorry if my post mislead you guys.

I was talking about immigration and prospective immigrants supposed requirements for citizenship, NOT about those already living in the Cape.
 
Ive written to the Cape Party to get their exact stance on the issue of citizenship and immigration. Will post it as soon as I have it.
 
What I request is that the Cape Party put forth an official "rep" on this forum who can be quizzed on their stance on items.
 
Cool, why not write to them and ask, Im sure they'll get someone to answer your questions here quick stix... Ive sent them mail before with questions and have ALWAYS gotten speedy replys.

Here's the contact info I have:
email: [email protected]
phone: 021 671 8668
 
I will send them a mail requesting so..

Its not likely to change my mind because unlike you, I'm a South African first and foremost, and my energy is going to attempting to make this WHOLE country better, rather than one enclave of it.
 
Sackboy : its a fairly safe assumption that more than 50% of the population of the WC do not have a matric.. its probably a much higher number than that actually.
 
I for one hope they get it right. I will move back to the WC in a heartbeat!
 
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